How to fix the Leafs: Fan Edition

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They definitely should not trade away Marner or any of the high-priced guys at this point.

They’ve already made the decision to build the team this way. That’s done- they can’t turn back now. They have to go with it and make it work.

Marner’s struggling obviously but there’s absolutely no way that replacing him with two $5 million players brings us closer to winning anything.
Building the team this way with this core is a failing project. We need to get rid of at least 1 of them to try and balance the team with motivated hard working skilled player. We are stuck with Tavares, they will not trade Matthews just yet and Nylander is worth his money the odd man out is money Mitch
 
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Right on man
 
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Marner has played himself off of this team, Matthews is one of the best scorers in the league, Tavares is the captain with a no trade clause and Nylander has out played his contract.

This is what he gets for being so greedy, when change comes (which it will) he is the odd man out. From there we balance the team with another top 2-4 defenceman and a winger that may not produce as well as mitch but given his linemates can generate 50-60 points and with those two players vs 11 for mitch, you have spread the talent around and we now we are a better more balanced team.

Even if they get things back on track I don't think we have enough talent spread out to win a cup or even compete for one, Holl can be atrocious and this bottom 6 is not stanley cup caliber. Maybe if we have two more Spezzas.
 
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The Overdrive guys pretty much nailed it:

- There seems to be no structure or system
- Every player plays like they are just solely focused on trying to score a goal (as opposed to doing what is needed to get in a position to score that goal)
- They are in their own heads, nervous, over-thinking which leads to playing slow and making stupid mistakes (O-Dog really stressed the "stupid" part)
- If and when the top guys get going the rest of the team will follow
- Benching or demoting one of the stars likely won't work right now (see last point)

I agree with all of this, especially the structure/system part, which they seemed to have for most of last season. Either they've lost faith in that, and therefore in Keefe, or they really need a team of sports psychologists to untangle what's going on in their heads.

The guys on Dangles podcast said it nicely, they are playing for themselves not the team.

I'm not a fan of Sid but around 6:45 he speaks what every Leaf fan has been thinking since this core started.

 
The team isn't going to work.

Every year wasted pretending is just delaying

It's time to dismantle.

it's not going to happen though.

I'm worried this gets ugly quick.

To your point about delaying this is a year wasted, fast forward to 4:18 to the tweet ...



... makes you wonder why a D-man with no coaching or GM experience can honestly assess his teammates and say what I think is an honest reasonable assessment of his team .. everything is lollypop and gumdrops in their world. Nothing wrong, everything is fine. you don't fix a gaping head wound by telling the person every thing is OK. you distract the person by doing that but at the end of the day the head wound is still there.
 
The culture stinks......

Wrong GM
Wrong Coach
Best Player may very well be a prima donna
Best playmaker has an inferiority complex likely due to his upbringing
Captain has past his prime and can never hope to live up to his expectations
The guys that "grew up" in the organization have been jettisoned by GM because of poor cap management
At this point it would seem all they are left with is flawed "superstars", a few guys biding their time until free agency, and bunch of low cost mercenaries

oh, and Jason Spezza :thumbu:

egd27's post is exactly spot on, and let's remember how we got here:

Remember the "Shanaplan"? I don't know about anybody else, but I understood that to be a cultural mindset and structure similar to the Red Wings dynasty of the 90's and 2000's that made the playoffs every year and won a cup or four. They told us the way to implement that was GROW THE TEAM FROM BELOW, where you install this mindset from the development stages so players NATURALLY flow up to the big club and don't miss a beat because they've been groomed since draft day, and played TOGETHER during that period.

All of this seemed to be flowing pretty nicely, then we got a BIG boost... the #1 pick, and Matthews. Now we're really on our way, right? Then something happened - Tavares. This was NOT part of the "Shanaplan". Yes, most of us were excited at the prospect but good LORD that contract messed up everything the "Shanaplan" stood for. We got lots of assurances that both a) the fantastic young players we had were going to be signed to reasonable deals to maintain the overall plan (FALSE) and b) the cap would go up anyway so it's all fine (FALSE).

Now what have we been left with? We've maintained PART of the "Shanaplan" (have a core set of players to build around, sign older vets from winning systems on the back-end as needed) but the really important part - have role players that were groomed in the system and played together for years - has been completely obliterated. Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kap, AJ, Leivo, Moore, Grundstrom, Zaitsev, Borgman even Marchment... all of these guys were supposed to feed up to the roster and be the key core of glue guys by now. Sure we probably couldn't have kept all of them even if Tavares never signed and we had reasonable contracts with the stars, but look at Tampa - their "support crew" barely changed for YEARS. Meanwhile we don't have one, at least one that can be maintained across seasons.

So the core queston, how to fix it? Ideally you have to get rid of at least one of the contracts, probably more than one. If we could get rid of Tavares that would be ideal, but I don't see how unless he retires. I'd be fine if we trade Marner but the big mistake (of course) was ever giving him that ridiculous deal. Everyone seems to want to get a "replacement" back for Marner but that simply isn't going to happen, there isn't any winger of his talent level available and you won't get a comparable center. Also the target should NOT be a replacement for Marner, it has to be a true #1 d-man, which is probably not obtainable (and thus you have to hope to draft one - something the Leafs don't try to do).

Dumping so much cash into the top 6 and letting the defense wither away might be the most colossally stupid thing Dubas has done, but here we are. All of the dynasties mentioned in this post had their stud d-man. Last year's additions of Brodie and Bogo were great and really gave me hope, but look now - Muzzin and Holl have regressed, Bogo skipped town and our young guys haven't been developed according to the "Shanaplan" because the team either rushed them or kept inserting foreign players in their place (who were subsequently given up on anyway).

So a more realistic take:
- Keep Marner with Tavares because it's the only way you're going to get production from him now.
- Trade or waive Ritchie, the guy is useless and always has been and he's a total anchor on everything they're doing (I imagine there's some cap reason they "can't" but I don't care, nothing will improve with him on the roster as far as I'm concerned. Find a way!).
- Keep Hutch on the Marlies forever, never look at him again. Only use young goalies as the emergency third, Hutch has never been consistent enough for the NHL and the team has no confidence in him at this point. If we're going to have mistakes let them be made by a developing guy.
- Trade Dermott, they've ruined him (for this team) in my opinion so try to get a more established "reliable" type from some team that wants a potential up-and-comer. Put that guy in.
- Put Lilly in, bench Holl.
- Bring up Semyonov (probably can't, this stupid f'ing cap stupidity), that's the guy who should be playing on the big club right now.
- Trade Kerfoot for a prospect or pick would be ideal, I don't hate his skills but he has never fit this team.

I think that's the only way this year. I obviously don't think those changes will get them near a cup but they could probably win a playoff round. The ugly part is next offseason is continued entropy as once again without one of the big contracts going away we just continue to lose guys (Rielly) with only "lesser" replacements able to come in.
 
Muzzin looks a step slower .
We are still s very careless team.
Last night game 6 two on ones.
We are not going to make the playoffs.

I think it is time to fire Dubass and Keefe, bring in a gm that know how to build a team hire Tortorella to coach.

Hire Rutherford to oversee everything .

This is the yr we should take a step back

Maybe get lucky in the lottery
Shane Wright or Miroshnichenko


At the deadline I would trade these players for picks and prospects
Reilly
Muzzin
Kerfoot
Engvall
Marner if the right deal is there
Holl at the draft

Bring up
Ho Sang
Amadio
Semyonov
Kral
Merrell

In the offseason sign
Brayden McNabb 2.5 mil
Chiarot 3.5 mil
Janmark 1.5 mil
Forsberg 5 mil
Lindholm 8 mil

Re-sign
Campbell 5 mil


Maybe doing this it will let Taveras know that we are couple of yrs away from the cup and he will ask for a trade.

Cap hit next yr 77,000,000

I'd love a little goonish action on this team, if we are going to lose, they other guys are gonna lose some teeth. Bring up that goon that I don't know his name, he's my favorite player.
 
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egd27's post is exactly spot on, and let's remember how we got here:

Remember the "Shanaplan"? I don't know about anybody else, but I understood that to be a cultural mindset and structure similar to the Red Wings dynasty of the 90's and 2000's that made the playoffs every year and won a cup or four. They told us the way to implement that was GROW THE TEAM FROM BELOW, where you install this mindset from the development stages so players NATURALLY flow up to the big club and don't miss a beat because they've been groomed since draft day, and played TOGETHER during that period.

All of this seemed to be flowing pretty nicely, then we got a BIG boost... the #1 pick, and Matthews. Now we're really on our way, right? Then something happened - Tavares. This was NOT part of the "Shanaplan". Yes, most of us were excited at the prospect but good LORD that contract messed up everything the "Shanaplan" stood for. We got lots of assurances that both a) the fantastic young players we had were going to be signed to reasonable deals to maintain the overall plan (FALSE) and b) the cap would go up anyway so it's all fine (FALSE).


Ah yes the Shanny plan... boy did they ever sell the fans a bill of goods, the pro team is a mess, the minor team is a mess, our prospect pool is so shallow if you stepped in it, your ankles wouldn't get wet. If Dubas and Sheldon admit there is a problem they are as good as fired, Sheldon tellign us after the last game where we got slapped... I like what I see out there, not sure if you see what I see.... are you fricking serious Sheldon? ... you see something positive here?
 
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He’s moving on regardless.

He’s going to Arizona.

He’ll enjoy the low key atmosphere there and growing the game locally and he’ll be close to family

Brand new area that the team has to pay for.. that beeping sound is the 'Yotes backing up the money truck to Matty's Arizona residence, to give hometown boy what ever contract he wants. Oh look whos driving the truck .... Gary Betteman...
 
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makes you wonder why a D-man with no coaching or GM experience can honestly assess his teammates and say what I think is an honest reasonable assessment of his team .. everything is lollypop and gumdrops in their world. Nothing wrong, everything is fine. you don't fix a gaping head wound by telling the person every thing is OK. you distract the person by doing that but at the end of the day the head wound is still there.

Is that not the problem with society in general nowadays? You have people saying they are speaking THEIR truth and other nonsense....it's either THE truth or it's not. When you allow people to make up versions of things to placate themselves...you get Keefe telling people that we did a real good job not getting blown out by a 'Cup Contender'.
 
Brand new area that the team has to pay for.. that beeping sound is the 'Yotes backing up the money truck to Matty's Arizona residence, to give hometown boy what ever contract he wants. Oh look whos driving the truck .... Gary Betteman...

Matthews might not go directly to Arizona but I am pretty sure he is gone from here...and the best part is we can't recoup anything for him in his last year due to the NMC. Of all the things Dubas did with the contracts...giving them NMC instead of modified NTC was one of the worst things he did..and that includes the over paying. We are going to have Karma come and bite us for getting JT and crowing about it...just wait.
 
Matthews might not go directly to Arizona but I am pretty sure he is gone from here...and the best part is we can't recoup anything for him in his last year due to the NMC. Of all the things Dubas did with the contracts...giving them NMC instead of modified NTC was one of the worst things he did..and that includes the over paying. We are going to have Karma come and bite us for getting JT and crowing about it...just wait.

I keep thinking he'll end up in San Jose, with Marleau in some type of management or coaching position.
 
Great thread premise. The Leafs have tried so many things to get this team going - Retooling, rebuilding, veteran leadership, coaches, GMs...


How do we fix it?

....is relocating the franchise on the table? :laugh:
 
makes you wonder why a D-man with no coaching or GM experience can honestly assess his teammates and say what I think is an honest reasonable assessment of his team .

8D5619E8-140D-4C77-B5CF-00BF73CC4E0D.jpeg


Just like what Sparks said.

They just don't care.
 
I wish someone knew because this is the worst team we've iced since the Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly era began. They have no cap space to do anything significant and they haven't drafted any decent players to plug in at ELC. Sandin shows glimpses of great play followed by looking like he's a slow, turnover machine. Robertson can't stay healthy and basically everyone else plays in Europe. McCann would have been nice to have right now for sure.

Its pretty tough times, I know there gonna get out of this slump and finish in the 6-10th spot in the east but we just don't look like a team that can win.
 
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Matthews might not go directly to Arizona but I am pretty sure he is gone from here...and the best part is we can't recoup anything for him in his last year due to the NMC. Of all the things Dubas did with the contracts...giving them NMC instead of modified NTC was one of the worst things he did..and that includes the over paying. We are going to have Karma come and bite us for getting JT and crowing about it...just wait.

Though if Matthews was intending on leaving, why would he use his NMC to stay in Toronto?
 
They definitely should not trade away Marner or any of the high-priced guys at this point.

They’ve already made the decision to build the team this way. That’s done- they can’t turn back now. They have to go with it and make it work.

Marner’s struggling obviously but there’s absolutely no way that replacing him with two $5 million players brings us closer to winning anything.
I Love Marner more than anybody being from London and watching him on the knights.
But for us to build a team he will need to be moved. The day that we signed Tavares ( which I didn't think was the right move ), I had a feeling this would eventually happen.
Leaf management screwed this up big time..
They listened to much to a rookie GM.
We have given our stars everything and they have given nothing back .
Ex. This yr after getting blown up last spring they were more worried about there dress code.
I personally would like a new GM to come in and blow this thing up.
Trade
Reilly
Muzzin ( who has lost a step )
Kerfoot
Marner
Holl ( at the draft )

Maybe JT will want to go chase a cup because we are 3 yrs away.

Maybe get lucky in the lottery again and draft
Wright.
We aren't doing anything with this current group.
 

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