How tired are players after a game?

[Cup Or Bust]

Evan Bouchard probably doesn't even need a shower after most regular season games. To his credit he's played with more urgency in the playoffs.

 

[toddkaz]

I can say exactly how tired they are but many ride the stationary bike after a game so....Its suppose to aid in recovery so they are still going even after a game.

 

[SEALBound]

It would depend a lot on what happens to each player during the game and how many minutes you play. Play 25min and take 10 hits? You are likely more tired and need more time to recoup to 100% than the guy that played 10 and took no hits.

 

[Wedontneedroads]

I’ve commented about this in a couple other threads, but there is a science to this that professional soccer clubs and many top youth academies use called Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). It is a subjective way for athletes to rate how hard they are working, and when paired with heart rate monitors and other biometric tracking equipment you can train players to very accurately rate how hard they are working.

The goal is to collect data and base training intensity on that data so your players can be peaking for games. If a player didn’t work hard enough in a game or practice they can get extra fitness in. If they reached their load level in the practice a day before the game they are removed from training.

I’m not as familiar with high level hockey training as I am with soccer, but I assume they do something similar.

Ironically I just noticed my Apple Watch asked me how hard I thought I worked after my beer league game tonight so even Apple is joining in on the trend. Will be interesting to see how they use/present that data back to me once it collects enough.

 

[Il Stugotz]

They’re still able to compete hard in multiple OT games late in the playoffs. I don’t think they’re even close to their endurance limits.

 

[saintunspecified]

Jagr would always work out after games. And recruit others to join him.

20 minutes of high intensity intervals is really not that much for an elite athlete. Even playing back to backs.

For sure. Doing this is something one sees routinely from competitors in non-contact sports. Swimming comes to mind. A lot of top quality swimmers run multiple races, relays, etc. at multi-day meets. And I've heard some say that they consider it a break relative to their training routines!

But contact sports are completely different animals. It's not even the big hits it's the constant work of maintaining balance under a huge variety of conditions.

I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but when the track/cross country coach saw how beat up I was from wrestling he suggested taking up running the mile, 5 & 10k instead & give up wrestling. At the time it sounded absurd - distance training would be easier on my body? It took all of a week to feel how much easier on my body it was.

 

[ijuka]

What would the ideal number of games be if it was calibrated to ensure players are in peak performance mode and not too tires from the previous game?

Just how tired are players after a game where they are going 15 to 20 minutes at full blast (then all of the practices as well)?

I would think even given their age, access to top physical therapists that 82 games is far from ideal.

This has less to do with the number of games, and more to do with the ice time. Exhaustion isn't linear, meaning that 20 minutes of high-intensity ice time will lead to significantly over twice the exhaustion in comparison to 10 minutes. It also relates to shift lengths. A player with 20 minutes of 30-second shifts will likely be far less exhausted than a player with 20 minutes of 1-minute shifts.

But yes, 82 games is far from ideal. Ideally, it would be somewhere around 60 games played, but good luck with getting the owners to agree to it.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Ottawa used to be known for riding the bikes after a game, and it got to the point where other players would poke fun at it.......goes as far back as when Shanahan was still playing, his "Ottawa interview" still makes me chuckle.

 

[stevo61]

If you are a depth player in LA you could probably play 3 games a day

 

[PistolPete]

Jonathan Toews was always a proponent of having baseball-style series instead of playing a different team every night. He is a bit of an environmentalist and said it would cut down on airfare emissions and be better for players' sanity to not always be jetting around to different cities.

I also have to wonder if this would reduce the disparity between the regular season and the playoffs ("it's a different game"), since teams are not used to matching up and adjusting against one another in-season.

What I like about the series idea too is that second (or third game) sets in that familiarity that can channel resentment. It allows you to get familiar with the opposing players rather than seeing a new set every night (until they meet again and by then your memory has forgotten all of their names let alone positions, style, stats etx)

 

[PistolPete]

With the nhl schedule matrix it doesn’t save much travel. Cause you play the other conference home and away only for 32 games.

You get 3 games vs the other division in your conf so you can get 4 sets of games at home where you could do B2b or twice in 3 days. That is another 24 games.

Up to 56 games so 26 left for 7 teams.

5 teams you play 4 times and 2 you play 3 times.

So you can host 10 teams for 2 consecutive

With the nhl schedule matrix it doesn’t save much travel. Cause you play the other conference home and away only for 32 games.

Perhaps an alternative is half if those teams is a two game set at home and the other half is a two game set on the road? They way the schedule is set up there's no point in trying to maintain a home and away for every match up for the sake of fair competition. This would he especially useful for the west coast/east coast travel.

 

[PistolPete]

Jagr would always work out after games. And recruit others to join him.

20 minutes of high intensity intervals is really not that much for an elite athlete. Even playing back to backs.

I’m sure the bumps and bruises of playing hockey have more to do with their diminished performance as the games stack up, more so then just being “tired”

True, I had thought of that.

I'm going by my own personal experience but when I work out 3 times in a week, I'm feeling the fatigue, especially when I go for the 4th workout.

Of course, I'm also 48 vs. 22

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ottawa used to be known for riding the bikes after a game, and it got to the point where other players would poke fun at it.......goes as far back as when Shanahan was still playing, his "Ottawa interview" still makes me chuckle.

Ya riding the bike is a smart move after, flushes out lactic acid from the muscles, and aids in the muscle recovery.

 

[PistolPete]

One thing I’ve observed, especially lately from following the Canes under RBA, is the importance of the coach’s role in establishing discipline in the players’ routines and habits.

Athletes are pulled in so many directions and have such an inconsistent lifestyle. As ordinary people I don’t think we have a good feel for how hard it is to show up with the appropriate level of intensity for everything they’re expected to do. They’re supposed to go balls-out for 18 minutes of ice time, 82 times a year, but also not hurt themselves or play reckless or take dumb penalties. They’re supposed to be amped all the way up during the game, but also sleep on the 3-hour flight to the next city, and then wake up at 4am to go to a hotel, and then sleep some more, and then wake up in a different time zone and make good decisions on their diet and then be amped up again for a game that their body thinks is taking place an hour earlier than the last one. And also be good to the fans and not be short with the media, not respond to anyone’s Twitter bullshit, not be bothered by people harassing their family, handle a multimillionaire’s personal budget, deal with their agent, rehab an injury, stay away from the clubs, drive the speed limit, and be a dad to a newborn. And in game #834 when it’s 6-2 in the second period, they’re supposed to GO GO GO and be INTENSE and when they get their stick a little high along the boards we’re like, “wow what’s with this guy’s lack of discipline?”.

One thing I’ve noticed from Brind’Amour, and it goes to the success the team has experienced under him, is that he smooths those things out. There’s a clear connection between the way the players carry themselves in the weight room during the offseason, and the way they carry themselves in Game 7 OT. It’s not just “be intense”. It’s “you have a role on this team, you have a job to do right now, so step up right now, and then move on to the next thing at the appropriate time.” I notice it most after the games are over, how much consistency and routine they show in transitioning from one game to the next. The focus is always on, what’s the next step? You’re tied after regulation going to OT, what’s your role? You just lost in OT and now you’re in the locker room, get dressed and do your post-game. Get home on time, get to sleep on time, get up on time, get back to the arena on time.

First of all, it smoothens out the focus issues. Second, it quickly identifies the guys who can’t hack it. You end up with a group identity, and on the Xs and Os side of the business the Canes have translated that identity into a lot of wins for a team that lacks top tier talent.

And it all goes back to what you said — motivating people to do the thing they’re supposed to be doing right now. Starting with investing in themselves in the summer, all the way through that trudge through the regular season and up the playoff ladder till they’re staggering toward the finish line.

As a psychology afficionado this stuff fascinates me.

Who could ever imagine these kinds of things being involved in the role of a professional coach, these minute details and how important they are to the success of a team.

It just amazes me even more thinking of the 80s ans earlier when players smoked, ate crap, couldn't tell you where a weight room is, got drunk a lot, etc. And no coach, GM , or owner thought "Is this conducive to success?"

One story I remember hearing about Brind'Amour- that sounds absurd tofay- is his coaches at Michigan and I think even the NHL used to lock the weight room because they believed working out too much with weights could hinder performance by slowing you down.

The media used to comment on it too.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Extremely tired. You don’t even want to take your skates off and all your equipment. You just want a Gatorade, and a bed to immediately pass out on. NHL player? I can imagine even more so

 

[PistolPete]

I’ve commented about this in a couple other threads, but there is a science to this that professional soccer clubs and many top youth academies use called Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). It is a subjective way for athletes to rate how hard they are working, and when paired with heart rate monitors and other biometric tracking equipment you can train players to very accurately rate how hard they are working.

The goal is to collect data and base training intensity on that data so your players can be peaking for games. If a player didn’t work hard enough in a game or practice they can get extra fitness in. If they reached their load level in the practice a day before the game they are removed from training.

I’m not as familiar with high level hockey training as I am with soccer, but I assume they do something similar.

Ironically I just noticed my Apple Watch asked me how hard I thought I worked after my beer league game tonight so even Apple is joining in on the trend. Will be interesting to see how they use/present that data back to me once it collects enough.

This made an article I read recently come to mind about how goalies are being managed differently today and coaches stopped having them play back to back games on successive nights and it also pointed out that if a goalie is playing that night, he shouldn't participate in practice that same day.

Aside from "load management", they also have a lot more knowledge about supplements and diet to help recovery faster. Makes me curious how players today compare to players 30 years ago.

But then you still see players who look obviously tired and commentators remarking about "not getting their legs going" because of fatigue...

 

[StreetHawk]

Perhaps an alternative is half if those teams is a two game set at home and the other half is a two game set on the road? They way the schedule is set up there's no point in trying to maintain a home and away for every match up for the sake of fair competition. This would he especially useful for the west coast/east coast travel.

You can save on same travel by playing those 10 home games in B2B or 2 in 3 days vs the same team.

I do think it's better for say a Seattle/Van, if they are playing say Nash, Dal, Utah, Win (just as an example) 2 times on the road that it's better to travel there once and play both road games. Same as when STL, Chi, Min, Col were to travel to the west to play twice. Probably end up with a better game since there is no travel and even on the B2B, they would be back at their hotel by around 11pm local time. So, can get a full night's sleep for the 2nd game.

So, traveling to 31 cities, would mean like 7-8 road trips a year where you are gone for 8-14 days at a time.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You just want a Gatorade,

Or, you know, whatever else might be at hand.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Imagine doing a workout that's the equivalent of an NHL game, wrapping it up at 10:30 at night, cooling down and showering, then hopping on a flight.

Brutal.

It will never happen but the season needs to be shorter. I think shortening by 10 games would do wonders for the quality of play and injuries. At these prices I want to watch quality hockey, not schedule losses from a back to back.

 

[StreetHawk]

Imagine doing a workout that's the equivalent of an NHL game, wrapping it up at 10:30 at night, cooling down and showering, then hopping on a flight.

Brutal.

It will never happen but the season needs to be shorter. I think shortening by 10 games would do wonders for the quality of play and injuries. At these prices I want to watch quality hockey, not schedule losses from a back to back.

I think we can reduce some travel by having teams play in each city once only. So, do a B2B or 2 in 3 when traveling to Chicago, Nashville, etc. if coming from the west coast. Then teams can just do like 9 or so road trips. Easier on the body in a B2B if you are not hopping on a plane and getting into your next hotel at 2am. Can be back there in the same hotel by 11pm.
Travel savings isn't as big for the NY area clubs if they have to hit Buf, Bos, Det, Cbj, Tor twice. But, anything does help.

Probably allows western teams to get in a few more practices if there is a day between games in the same city.

It's something that the NHL/NBA should consider doing as they have a very similar schedule matrix.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I’ve commented about this in a couple other threads, but there is a science to this that professional soccer clubs and many top youth academies use called Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). It is a subjective way for athletes to rate how hard they are working, and when paired with heart rate monitors and other biometric tracking equipment you can train players to very accurately rate how hard they are working.

The goal is to collect data and base training intensity on that data so your players can be peaking for games. If a player didn’t work hard enough in a game or practice they can get extra fitness in. If they reached their load level in the practice a day before the game they are removed from training.

I’m not as familiar with high level hockey training as I am with soccer, but I assume they do something similar.

Ironically I just noticed my Apple Watch asked me how hard I thought I worked after my beer league game tonight so even Apple is joining in on the trend. Will be interesting to see how they use/present that data back to me once it collects enough.

This is the kind of thing I mean by, as fans and non-elite athletes I think we have a poor grasp on what is really asked of the players. We want to see them being mega-intense all the time, and going 100% on every shift regardless of score or circumstance. And yes, intensity is really important for physical competition. But there is also a psychological limit to intensity, such that we see ups and downs throughout a game and throughout a season.

What you’re describing is a better indicator of what’s actually needed for athletes to be successful in an 82-game season — a high level of focus on maintaining an appropriate level of exertion.

This was a much bigger deal in prior generations, before shifts got so short that they became a 30-second sprint. Back when shifts were more like 90-120 seconds on average, “shift management” was a big deal similar to a soccer player’s energy management. We watch clips from that era and think of the players as being terribly slow, but that had a lot to do with managing exertion in order to prevent burnout. The last thing you want is to be caught on the ice at the end of a 2-minute shift when Guy Lafleur jumps off the bench and starts wheeling up the ice.

^^^ beer leaguers can relate to the above. There’s a huge difference in your exertion levels when you have 10 guys on the bench than when you have 2. Shift management becomes a BIG deal. It becomes much more important to know how to get to the right places “on time” than to run around like a Tasmanian Devil.

Going back to the Canes model, I find this all to be a really interesting intersection of strategy, psychology, and physiology. You’ll notice the Canes don’t chase hits, and they don’t take unnecessary hits to make a play. They’ll actively back off if there’s not a meaningful difference to be made. But they’re also extremely focused about being in the right places at the right times, activating on the puck when they’re supposed to. This is very different from a traditional NHL approach to intensity.

One story I remember hearing about Brind'Amour- that sounds absurd tofay- is his coaches at Michigan and I think even the NHL used to lock the weight room because they believed working out too much with weights could hinder performance by slowing you down.

I think there’s actually something to this. Hockey was so physical back then, it made sense to add a bunch of upper body muscle for the sake of weight and strength (especially given the amount of boardwork they did compared to now). Today the players seem a lot slimmer in their upper bodies. Even a guy like Tom Wilson, who’s among the stronger players in the league, is muscular but not massive like a Brind’Amour or Lindros. I think the weightlifting craze of the 80s got a little out of hand for some of those guys, at least in terms of “hockey relevant” musculature. I could imagine the coaches looking at guys like Gretzky and Savard tearing up the scoring charts, and struggling to convince an 18 year old that he didn’t need to look like Hulk Hogan as a hockey player.