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how strategic application of Nieves will = options for NYR

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bernmeister said:
much positive and some fair negative comments, thanks for it all.

What I am asking you and everyone else to admit to is in theory, on paper, it COULD work.
Kreider, who is not going anywhere, and Nieves, especially with some dedicated rehearsal, could be a dynamic duo enhanced b'c of their speed.

As to lack of offensive creativity, to a large extent -- but not entirely -- guilty as charged. However, I clearly said, in this role Nieves starts out with max support. He lets Kreider and the other W drive the offense. He doesn't shy away from a pass he has to make, and he goes to the net if/when necessary. But basically his job is keep the flow of play, which his speed enables. He also has a little extra def responsibility. Those modest duties are not above Nieves' ability.

If you recall, when he got here, he was on the 4th line, looked solid but unspectacular, and they upgraded him to Buchnevich + somebody else which clicked for a goal or two. IMO due to AV and deciding not to burn a year of elc and decision to give him more mins, the experiment was scrapped.

This would be similar.
Just as he responded positively to letting Buch drive the play, so he would likewise with Kreider and the right RW, more so, b'c he and Kreider can use their speed in tandem, complementary, to split defenses even further.

And it gets better. Kravtsov is Kreider-esque skating with sniper ability. Only concern with him paired at RW is that he is a lefty shot, but he is listed as RW.
When you get a complementary group like that, all big and fast, Kreider more strength, Kratsov more finishing scoring, and Nieves adequate binding piece to start, it is a recipe for success.
Why insist on not even giving it a solid try?
Click to expand...

I'm more interested in what works on the ice Bern. Really I take no pleasure shooting you down on this and I like Nieves. I think he could be a player but if he is it will be a lot more modest than you're dreaming of. Nieves offensive upside is limited. It's not because he doesn't have size or skating or stick skills--it's because he doesn't have that spark of creativity that depends on instinctive play. When it comes to real point production those types that hesitate might produce some but they won't produce a lot. That is where Nieves is and actually that concern goes all the way back to his pre-draft pre-freshman year at college and it followed him all through his years in Michigan and his first two years a a pro. He's always underwhelmed the skills he possesses. It's at least 7 straight years of underwhelming and he's going to be 24 this year.

I'll say once again as well he doesn't shoot the puck enough. 42 shots on goal in 40 games in Hartford. Not only does his playmaking lack a bit on the creativity side but opposition defenses and goalies can cheat on him because they know that 9 (maybe even 9 and a half) times out of 10 when given the chance to shoot the puck or make that pass he makes the pass. Being selfish sometimes isn't a bad thing--being unselfish all the time is--at least when it comes to hockey. When it comes to the economy that's another story but I'd rather not go too far down that road in a hockey discussion.
 
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eco's bones said:
I'm more interested in what works on the ice Bern. Really I take no pleasure shooting you down on this and I like Nieves. I think he could be a player but if he is it will be a lot more modest than you're dreaming of. Nieves offensive upside is limited. It's not because he doesn't have size or skating or stick skills--it's because he doesn't have that spark of creativity that depends on instinctive play. When it comes to real point production those types that hesitate might produce some but they won't produce a lot. That is where Nieves is and actually that concern goes all the way back to his pre-draft pre-freshman year at college and it followed him all through his years in Michigan and his first two years a a pro. He's always underwhelmed the skills he possesses. It's at least 7 straight years of underwhelming and he's going to be 24 this year.

I'll say once again as well he doesn't shoot the puck enough. 42 shots on goal in 40 games in Hartford. Not only does his playmaking lack a bit on the creativity side but opposition defenses and goalies can cheat on him because they know that 9 (maybe even 9 and a half) times out of 10 when given the chance to shoot the puck or make that pass he makes the pass. Being selfish sometimes isn't a bad thing--being unselfish all the time is--at least when it comes to hockey. When it comes to the economy that's another story but I'd rather not go too far down that road in a hockey discussion.
Click to expand...

I'll say it again.
Respectfully, you are missing my point.
He does NOT need at this point to drive the offense. Kreider and the RW [sooner than later Krav] will do that. He may improve and do that going forward with experience as there is chemistry and they all get comfortable.
But right now all he has to do is be glue.
Do just enough to make the line work, which he can due to physical gifts, if as I suspect there is chemistry w/CK
 
bernmeister said:
I'll say it again.
Respectfully, you are missing my point.
He does NOT need at this point to drive the offense. Kreider and the RW [sooner than later Krav] will do that. He may improve and do that going forward with experience as there is chemistry and they all get comfortable.
But right now all he has to do is be glue.
Do just enough to make the line work, which he can due to physical gifts, if as I suspect there is chemistry w/CK
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you become too obsessed with certain players sometimes. Nieves is not the only center that would benefit from playing with Kreider or later on Kravtsov--if in fact Kravtsov turns out as hoped. In any case there are other centers who would IMO slot in a lot easier with the better players than Nieves---centers you wouldn't have to do nearly the experimenting with and I suspect strongly will produce right off or a lot more quickly than Nieves.

Nieves has never shown an ability to lead offensively. Why force a round peg into a square hole?

I have to be honest with you---even calling Kreider a 1st liner is something I do by default. He's a very good player but he's a 1st liner simply because we have no one better. When he starts putting up 60 point seasons then maybe I'll start thinking of him as a legit 1st line guy---but so far his production hasn't reached beyond what other mediocre or lower end players on first lines around the league produce. He's no superstar. He's very unlikely to ever to go to the Hockey Hall of Fame unless he buys a ticket.
 
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So two players who have never played together have "synergy" just cause. Maybe Staal could play on the other wing because "synergy".
 
Bob Richards said:
Lotta jealousy and hurt feelings in this thread.

Name a more prolific number once center in this league who has never played number one center
Click to expand...
i
 
@bernmeister if we gave Nieves 1C for the year, like 70~ games, and he really got used as the 1C, like 18-20 mins a night and whatever line combos and PP time you want, what stat line does he put up?
 
Is the basic concept here that Nieves could be a passenger on a good line? Probably true but there are TONS of others who can fill that ‘role’.
I think Nieves might be a decent player at some point but not worth overthinking it. I’d say. Like a bunch of others wait and hope and see.
 
bernmeister said:
much positive and some fair negative comments, thanks for it all.

What I am asking you and everyone else to admit to is in theory, on paper, it COULD work.
Kreider, who is not going anywhere, and Nieves, especially with some dedicated rehearsal, could be a dynamic duo enhanced b'c of their speed.

As to lack of offensive creativity, to a large extent -- but not entirely -- guilty as charged. However, I clearly said, in this role Nieves starts out with max support. He lets Kreider and the other W drive the offense. He doesn't shy away from a pass he has to make, and he goes to the net if/when necessary. But basically his job is keep the flow of play, which his speed enables. He also has a little extra def responsibility. Those modest duties are not above Nieves' ability.

If you recall, when he got here, he was on the 4th line, looked solid but unspectacular, and they upgraded him to Buchnevich + somebody else which clicked for a goal or two. IMO due to AV and deciding not to burn a year of elc and decision to give him more mins, the experiment was scrapped.

This would be similar.
Just as he responded positively to letting Buch drive the play, so he would likewise with Kreider and the right RW, more so, b'c he and Kreider can use their speed in tandem, complementary, to split defenses even further.

And it gets better. Kravtsov is Kreider-esque skating with sniper ability. Only concern with him paired at RW is that he is a lefty shot, but he is listed as RW.
When you get a complementary group like that, all big and fast, Kreider more strength, Kratsov more finishing scoring, and Nieves adequate binding piece to start, it is a recipe for success.
Why insist on not even giving it a solid try?
Click to expand...
It could work. It could also fail. What do you think the chances are it will work? By it i mean everything in your post, not just trying boo at 1C.

You can try any1 at 1c for a sample of games.
 
Is this like when you "expected" to trade every valuable Ranger asset for a top 10 pick in this years draft? You are as wrong about Nieves as the first day you dreamt up this ridiculous scenario. I'm rooting for Boo to develop into a decent 4c but there is a food chance he doesnt even crack the nhl roster to start the year. He's also way too predictable with his lack of an NHL shot and constantly trying to force passes.
 
My theory is bern is high level trolling.

The length of everything, to me, shows a complete disregard for the time of every1 else.

The content is usually very presumptive and insults your intelligence by offering rationale that purposely ignores a ton of obvious things. Here on a discussion board, many are compelled to respond point by point bc of the terrible logic. Bern is then very gracious afterwards bc he's secretly laughing that he made you respond w a mini novella.
But that's just a theory
 
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shinchanuuhh said:
It could work. It could also fail. What do you think the chances are it will work? By it i mean everything in your post, not just trying boo at 1C.

You can try any1 at 1c for a sample of games.
Click to expand...

It won't work because Nieves is not good enough to make it work. And by the way I don't agree with you on Bern just trolling. I think he's very much sincere--maybe even lonely at times but there are certain players that Bern is in love with and Nieves happens to be one of them.
 
eco's bones said:
It won't work because Nieves is not good enough to make it work. And by the way I don't agree with you on Bern just trolling. I think he's very much sincere--maybe even lonely at times but there are certain players that Bern is in love with and Nieves happens to be one of them.
Click to expand...
I was being EXTREMELY generous. If you'd asked me what % i think it could work I'd say a fraction of a %.

A lot of trolling is for attention. Certainly could be due to loneliness. I have more than one theory. The rest of them are highly insulting so i kept my mouth shut and offered the sort of playful troll theory.
 
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