How popular was Mats Sundin to the entire city of Toronto?

[colchar]

Popular, but not universally beloved. Only Toronto athlete more popular during that time coincided with him were Gilmour and Vince Carter at his peak (which had an ugly divorce).

Clark.

He got knocked for being huge and European but not being a power guy by fans who are mostly in their late 70's and 80's now (not that it was universal among that group).

No, that is not why he was knocked.

And it is not 70's and 80's. The apostrophe denotes the possessive form, not the plural form. For that you simply add an 's' so it should read 70s and 80s.

Sorry, but that mistake drives me nuts (even more so when people add an apostrophe when talking about decades) and I'm an English prof who has a class to teach in 15 minutes so I am getting into the mindset.

 

[colchar]

love reading the takes from people who allow bias to taint what happens/happened
mats was a true leaf ... right to the bone... if everybody in today's lineup cared like mats we'd be home free

some mats facts

1) he exercised his ntc that he had in his contract
2) he DID NOT turn his back on the leafs to run to vancouver .. this is the most often spouted untruth about mats out there
3) he wanted to remain a leaf
4) the reason he left was burke... burke wanted him to sign a 2 year contract, mats said he wanted to take it one year at a time, burke then said we are going to go in a different direction
5) after the fact burke backpedalled and tried to make it like mats didnt want to be a leaf ... all quite a bit after the fact

Burke closed door on Sundin return - The Globe and Mail

If he wanted to remain a Leaf so bad he would have accepted the two year contract.

 

[Suntouchable13]

People that were knocking him were probably clamouring for someone like Tie Domi to be captain or something. There was absolutely nothing wrong with his game. He had a great career and was a great player with unmatched consistency. I will defend him 100% of the time, even though he doesn’t need me to come to his defence.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

He was my favourite Leaf besides Clark. Loved him. Captain Clutch. Beast. That changed when he didn't want to be a rental then effectively became a rental after leaving for nothing. Don't hate him, no animosity. Just another Leaf in my eyes.

 

[Stephen]

Better than what they got for him.

Sundin is a caliber of Maple Leaf you just don’t trade in like a beer can at the end of his career.

 

[1specter]

Gilmour and Clark are legends, Sundin is not in that class. Gilmour and Clark loved being a Leaf, injured themselves to win at all costs. Sundin wasnt like this, I hope everyone recalls Sundin looking world class for Sweden and not the same player with the Leafs. Sure he was still and NHL all star etc but looked like Gilmour and Clark did when he suited up for Team Sweden...meaning he was 100% all in wearing yellow, 93 and 17 were all in wearing blue and white.

Yup. Sundin was a great player, a class act and that is my only real problem with him. People say it's just his style, he's a cerebral type etc. so you don't see the emotion but that doesn't mean he's not doing his best and so on, but then you see him with team Sweden and he's playing with that fire and passion and it pisses me off that he does have that passion and that extra gear in him after all, but he doesn't bring it when he's playing for us. In a way I guess it's understandable, kids in Sweden are more likely to dream about winning titles for Sweden than winning the cup so how can you hold that against him? But at the same time, knowing he has more to give and he's not giving it, well it's also understandable that that can piss people off.

If Sundin had just a little bit of Gilmour in him, he's be an enormous legend in this town. He's probably be like a top 2 Leaf over the last 50 years in terms of popularity instead of being on the fringes of the top 5. As it is he's still a bit of a legend I guess, just a smaller one and we're just left wondering what might have been. And for me it has nothing to do with who we traded for him, I loved Clark as much as any other Leaf fan but I saw that as a smart trade for us the minute I found about it.

I'm not sure I totally agree with these takes or find them fair. With Sweden he had elite teammates like Alfredsson, Forsberg, Lidstrom, etc, I don't think it was a straight up 'passion' thing. I said this before but I really do believe Sundin was on the level of a Sakic or Yzerman if he had the same calibre of teammates those two did in Detroit and Colorado.

 

[socko]

Sundin is a caliber of Maple Leaf you just don’t trade in like a beer can at the end of his career.

I'm not the sentimental type. I'd trade him in, if it benefits the team.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Sundin was unloved as a euro softie most of his time in Toronto. Near the end he finally started to earn respect, but never love.

Not true at all.

 

[socko]

Sundin's best offensive season, by a good bit, was with Quebec. Which was a shame. He was a first ballot HOF, so I'm not seeing the disrespect. Leaf fans will complain about anything when they're not winning, which is pretty much every season.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Gilmour and Clark are legends, Sundin is not in that class. Gilmour and Clark loved being a Leaf, injured themselves to win at all costs. Sundin wasnt like this, I hope everyone recalls Sundin looking world class for Sweden and not the same player with the Leafs. Sure he was still and NHL all star etc but looked like Gilmour and Clark did when he suited up for Team Sweden...meaning he was 100% all in wearing yellow, 93 and 17 were all in wearing blue and white.

This is also not true. Sundin injured himself for the Leafs and was world class for the Leafs. You don't get the nickname Captain Clutch because you don't care. The guy single handedly tied the last game in the second series against Philly to get us to OT. He was a warrior. If not for the way he left the team, he'd still be one of my favourite Leafs.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not the sentimental type. I'd trade him in, if it benefits the team.

Could you imagine the Canadiens fans having a meltdown that Carey Price didn’t want to be traded to the Leafs for equivalent of Mrazek, Mikheyev and a 1st?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not sure I totally agree with these takes or find them fair. With Sweden he had elite teammates like Alfredsson, Forsberg, Lidstrom, etc, I don't think it was a straight up 'passion' thing. I said this before but I really do believe Sundin was on the level of a Sakic or Yzerman if he had the same calibre of teammates those two did in Detroit and Colorado.

That's fine, I'm sure there are man others who also don't agree with me on this one. We all have our opinions and mine is that Sundin displayed a passion with team Sweden that he never showed with the Leafs. It has nothing to do with his teammates, I'm talking about his body language, facial expression etc. and to me it was clear that he was more engaged then than he ever was with the Leafs. Still an amazing player for us though so like I said, I can't really complain but I still saw what I saw.

I mostly agree with what you said about him being on the same level as Sakic or Yzerman. Then again, let's say that there is the smallest of gaps between those two and Sundin, if so then playing with a little bit more passion might have closed that gap.

 

[socko]

Sundin was a better international player than NHL player. No doubt about it. He made all those other Swedes who were better than him in the NHL look like chumps on the big ice. I think that's why he gets ranked higher by Swedish fans than Leafs fans.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Could you imagine the Canadiens fans having a meltdown that Carey Price didn’t want to be traded to the Leafs for equivalent of Mrazek, Mikheyev and a 1st?

Yes, I can. It's common practice and it was especially common back when Sundin retired. Plus, I bet Carey would accept the trade to help his team.

BTW: we traded two firsts for Nolan.

 

[stickty111]

One of the greatest captains in our history and maybe even the best. Didn't get enough appreciation whether it was his humble personality or nationality, but he was a class act. He wasn't the most vocal but what he did was come up clutch in big moments as a captain should.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

One of the greatest Leafs I'll ever have seen. He was popular for sure in the city when I still lived in Toronto in the late 90s/early 2000s.

He was the opposite of Matthews and Marner. Captain clutch

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Right up there iconic Leaf. Captain clutch type. Not a quitter that disappeared biggest moments. Nothing like our stars today apparently.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

One of the greatest Leafs I'll ever have seen. He was popular for sure in the city when I still lived in Toronto in the late 90s/early 2000s.

He was the opposite of Matthews and Marner. Captain clutch

I didn’t even read your post or any others just replied and we said the same thing haha. He was Captain Clutch.

 

[cruzer]

I've been a fan since the mid 60's. For me, Sundin is the best Leaf in that time, for various reasons. There were a good number of others, Salming, Sittler, Gilmour and more, that also stood out. I wish someone in the new group would take the reins, but I don't see it yet.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've been a fan since the mid 60's. For me, Sundin is the best Leaf in that time, for various reasons. There were a good number of others, Salming, Sittler, Gilmour and more, that also stood out. I wish someone in the new group would take the reins, but I don't see it yet.

Hmm, interesting. If you've been following for all that time, how the hell does Keon not get a mention?

I was thinking earlier today, does Sundin make my top 5 list for the last 50 years and I decided that my top 3 were easy, Salming, Sittler and Gilmour in that order and then it was between Sundin, McDonald and Clark for 4. Having reflected on that for a while, I decided that Sundin has to be 4 so he does indeed crack my top 5.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Damn you know Dubas failed hard this off season when these are the topics being posted.

What the f*** does this have to do with Dubas? My god lol

 

[Gary Nylund]

What the f*** does this have to do with Dubas? My god lol

I agree completely, this is obviously on Marner.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Sundin is a caliber of Maple Leaf you just don’t trade in like a beer can at the end of his career.

Yup. I would have preferred he accepted to be traded at the time, but it was/is small fish compared to the big picture. The fact that it gets mentioned to this day is just so petty, and an awful way to treat a guy who was a loyal captain and arguably the best player in the history of the franchise.

 

[Stephen]

Yup. I would have preferred he accepted to be traded at the time, but it was/is small fish compared to the big picture. The fact that it gets mentioned to this day is just so petty, and an awful way to treat a guy who was a loyal captain and arguably the best player in the history of the franchise.

The wrath we see today would make more sense if he had blocked a trade that would have brought us an 18 year old Stamkos or something and given the Leafs their next era on a platter.

But it was Grabovski, Higgins and a 1st which would have been Greg Niemiz or Louis Leblanc depending on whether we’re talking 2008 or 2009. And we got the best player in that deal for a 2nd rounder anyway.

 

[freshwind]

If he wanted to remain a Leaf so bad he would have accepted the two year contract.

he had an agreement with fletcher to do 1 year deals ... he wanted to make sure his body could withstand the season . burke came in and pulled the 1 yr offer off the table and offered 2 ... mats said he really wanted to keep it 1 year at a time ... then within a short period of time burke pulled the offer off the table and started his false claims against mats
burke definitely played a part in many fans' minds regarding mats ...