Player Discussion How overpaid is Timothy Liljegren?

[Frostitute]

Go look at the draft, it was a weak one. Very few impact players. I still think he will be top 4 but in other drafts he would have been lower.

Not saying it was a strong draft. Simply stating a fact. Also, a defencemans development curve is steeper therfore taking longer. He can still become more than he is.

 

[thusk]

Like when Rielly was suspended? No wait both were incredible.

every body are ablr to look great 3-4-5 game, its not whats making you a good or bad d...

You didn't remembered Travis Dermott... He was able too to be amaizing 5-6 gamr, being completly trash next 10, be great next 3, being trash next 4, being great next 6, being trash next 8.

the differencebetween a good D top 4 d and a depht D ... its consistency

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Currently he's not overpaid but he will be if he gets an extension, I feel like this is the off season Brad puts his stamp on this team and I'd like to see Lilly be packaged off as part of reshaping the defense.

There is talent there for sure but there is no consistency.

I think It's time to move on.

Not saying it was a strong draft. Simply stating a fact. Also, a defencemans development curve is steeper therfore taking longer. He can still become more than he is.

It's been 7 years

 

[Racer88]

Currently he's not overpaid but he will be if he gets an extension, I feel like this is the off season Brad puts his stamp on this team and I'd like to see Lilly be packaged off as part of reshaping the defense.

There is talent there for sure but there is no consistency.

I think It's time to move on.



It's been 7 years

It’s been 7 painful years. Lol

 

[Frostitute]

Currently he's not overpaid but he will be if he gets an extension, I feel like this is the off season Brad puts his stamp on this team and I'd like to see Lilly be packaged off as part of reshaping the defense.

There is talent there for sure but there is no consistency.

I think It's time to move on.



It's been 7 years

Thanks. I am unable to count past 5.

 

[notDatsyuk]

come playoff time, he need to get the final roster ready for playoff, not babysitting young player. Its time to get ready for playoff

Thats what every coach in playoff team doing. Right now thats doesn't matter if you're 35 or 20 y/o, the only thing matter is can i trust enough in important situation to keep you on the ice

Exactly, and if one of your better players needs a bit more coaching to be ready to handle the important situations, it's the coaches' job to do that.

 

[thusk]

Exactly, and if one of your better players needs a bit more coaching to be ready to handle the important situations, it's the coaches' job to do that.

but hes not one of best player... he's the guy who playing easiest matchup and most protected d amount all leafs D but he able to provide more offensive than most of d dmen and hes RHD, so thats why he get a shot right now over Benoit.

 

[shortfuze]

Are we comparing Liljegren's salary to the league's standard or to the Leafs own internal cap structure?

Because it seems to me there's a pretty big difference. If we're gonna compare Liljegren to the rest of the bottom pairing defensemen in the league he's probably grossly overpaid. Compared to the stars on this team, however, and he's criminally underpaid.

It's all relative.

Liljegren stinks. I don't need another 13 games to know that. I'm pretty sure the magical 200 games number only counts if he hits it before age 22.

It doesn't apply to struggling 24 years olds seven years after they've been drafted.

The Leafs aren't a development team. This is supposed to be a contender doing everything they can to win a cup. Guys who still need developing should be getting traded for players who know how to play good hockey now.

That includes Lilybust and his $1.4M cap hit.

200 games is 200 games. Why do you get to make up an age number? And pretty much every contending teams have young guys they need to develop.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

200 games is 200 games. Why do you get to make up an age number? And pretty much every contending teams have young guys they need to develop.

You are correct.

200 games is 200 games. And once you add in the seven playoffs games Liljegren has played that puts him at 195. Which means at this point we probably got a pretty good idea what he is.

A soft bottom pairing offensive first defenseman who gets to play simply by default of being the only natural RHD on the team.

 

[Maplebeasts]

You are correct.

200 games is 200 games. And once you add in the seven playoffs games Liljegren has played that puts him at 195. Which means at this point we probably got a pretty good idea what he is.

A soft bottom pairing offensive first defenseman who gets to play simply by default of being the only natural RHD on the team.

He is offense first but has the best defensive statistics of any defenseman on the team? No regular defenseman on this team has a better GF% at 5 on 5, xGF% at 5 on 5, fewer goals against/60, etc. He gets to play because he is this team's second best defenseman, and has been for the vast majority of the season.

 

[notDatsyuk]

but hes not one of best player... he's the guy who playing easiest matchup and most protected d amount all leafs D but he able to provide more offensive than most of d dmen and hes RHD, so thats why he get a shot right now over Benoit.

Well, I said 'better', not 'best', and if he's one of our few RHD (as you said) and provides more offence than most (as you said), then he's a better choice.

Glad you agree.

 

[Da Mash]

Interesting.....guess we had a pretty good idea when Schenn was here in his first 200 games?

I always thought defensiveman develop slower....takes time to get used to the NHL. Adapt.

We are quick to throw Lilly to the trash now...playing 188 regular season games and been through some injuries. Plays 18-20 mins a game when needed ....holds his own....on a team that had goalie issues....structured change defensively...and some think he is a bum?

I guess it doesnt matter....fans will always find someone to hate on their team.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I think Liljegren should be earning $950k so I'm torn between the well thought-out options in the poll.

 

[thusk]

Well, I said 'better', not 'best', and if he's one of our few RHD (as you said) and provides more offence than most (as you said), then he's a better choice.

Glad you agree.

Hes also the more risky. When hr having time and space, he can be great... When your limiting his time and space. In playoff you dont have time and space, so you need to able to deal with it... if you cant, you will just put your team in bad situation like it was the case against Boston.

If hes playing1-2-3 game like he did on 1st of last 2 game vs boston ( where him/nylander together cost the game). At the end of best of 7 game series, can easily be the difference between winning and losing it.

 

[Machinae]

Leaf fans are downright terrible at evaluating defenseman, and the Leafs organization and environment is one of the worst to develop d-men to boot.

Liljegren will develop, and it would probably happen a lot quicker with another organization with less fan pressure. Let's see if we can run another player out of town for another organization to benefit greatly from.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I can't believe this is a thread. It's 1.4M on a promising young RD. Why is he overpaid? Are you saying his actual value is between league min to 1.3M? I don't understand.

 

[aingefan]

Leaf fans are downright terrible at evaluating defenseman, and the Leafs organization and environment is one of the worst to develop d-men to boot.

Liljegren will develop, and it would probably happen a lot quicker with another organization with less fan pressure. Let's see if we can run another player out of town for another organization to benefit greatly from.

People argue various things about his development or perceived lack of, but there’s lots of context that folks don’t consider in his case. A homegrown RHD who can lead a power play on a team begging for more on his side continues to boggle me.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Hes also the more risky. When hr having time and space, he can be great... When your limiting his time and space. In playoff you dont have time and space, so you need to able to deal with it... if you cant, you will just put your team in bad situation like it was the case against Boston.

If hes playing1-2-3 game like he did on 1st of last 2 game vs boston ( where him/nylander together cost the game). At the end of best of 7 game series, can easily be the difference between winning and losing it.

Between Liljegren, Timmins, and Lyubushkin (and even Klingberg if you want), please explain why he is more risky.

By the way, I'm not surprised you dragged Nylander into the conversation (as you seem to have a thing against him), even though the reference was both wrong and irrelevant.

 

[thusk]

Between Liljegren, Timmins, and Lyubushkin (and even Klingberg if you want), please explain why he is more risky.

By the way, I'm not surprised you dragged Nylander into the conversation (as you seem to have a thing against him), even though the reference was both wrong and irrelevant.

timmins is 9th dman...

klinberg we saw him played 3 healthy game and he out for season.

liljegren where hes risky is his lack of Hockey IQ, he dont recognize the play in front of him and put himself in bad position where he missed his cover, need to hook. boston game was a great exemple, he missed his cover on 3 of 4 boston goal. What i want to see liljegren since playoff is if hes able understand whats happening around him because for me its his biggest weakness and why hes risky.

Nylander when he put effort on the ice, hes great but when he started to cheat, he can cost game to leafs like carolina game 4th goal is all nypander fault because he was affraid to put his body into shooting lane. Just about working and paying the price and if you want to win in playoff, paying the price is the only way for it. I dont hate the player, i hate when he's playing soft defensivrly because its not how you win. Taking 10 second off from only 1 player can cancel instantly 20 minutes of hard work of complete team. Its kind of details who will.make you lost in playoff so yes im concerning about it. But its not nylander
topic.

 

[Joe n]

timmins is 9th dman...

klinberg we saw him played 3 healthy game and he out for season.

liljegren where hes risky is his lack of Hockey IQ, he dont recognize the play in front of him and put himself in bad position where he missed his cover, need to hook. boston game was a great exemple, he missed his cover on 3 of 4 boston goal. What i want to see liljegren since playoff is if hes able understand whats happening around him because for me its his biggest weakness and why hes risky.

Nylander when he put effort on the ice, hes great but when he started to cheat, he can cost game to leafs like carolina game 4th goal is all nypander fault because he was affraid to put his body into shooting lane. Just about working and paying the price and if you want to win in playoff, paying the price is the only way for it. Taking a shift off from only 1 player can cancel instantly 20 minutes of hard work of complete team.Its kind of details who will.make you lost in playoff so yes im concerning about it. But its not nylander
topic.

every time D on the team get injured he moves up the lineup and plays well with harder matchups but apparently he is not worth his salary. Maybe if Keefe would stop moving him back down the lineup as soon as he makes one mistake he'd be more consistent. Other D on the team can make mistake after mistake with no repercussions.

 

[sxvnert]

If lily can become a rielly lite (good offence, meh D) paired with a tough defensive minded D then im fine with keeping him long term.
Obviously i would prefer a muzzin tier partner for him but edmundson gives us a peak at what this combo could look like.

Leaf fans are downright terrible at evaluating defenseman, and the Leafs organization and environment is one of the worst to develop d-men to boot.

Liljegren will develop, and it would probably happen a lot quicker with another organization with less fan pressure. Let's see if we can run another player out of town for another organization to benefit greatly from.

The holl and gardiner assessments were extremely accurate.

 

[Da Mash]

So let me get this straight.....

Lilly is overpaid because he has a terrible hockey IQ....so bad that he plays in the NHL...guess the rest of our D is Einsteins out there Reilly is terrible defensively but gets a pass

Nylander plays no D....but guys like Domi and Bert get a pass.....go figure...they are just as bad but they growl...or look the part like they are trying....

Typical Cherry fans.....hate the Swedes....

Same people that wanted Kessel out of here and he wins two cups....should of least had one playoff MVP too.....but he didnt fit the mold Cherry fans have brainwashed in their brains
Pitt hasnt won squat since he left.....go figure...

 

[thusk]

every time D on the team get injured he moves up the lineup and plays well with harder matchups but apparently he is not worth his salary. Maybe if Keefe would stop moving him back down the lineup as soon as he makes one mistake he'd be more consistent. Other D on the team can make mistake after mistake with no repercussions.

it was also the case with dermott... and he never become a top 4 for that reason. Keefe moving him down because hes unable to keep his game as high in daily basis.

Making mistake because youre missing a play, its a thing... missing a play because you dont recognize it and let your guy all alone, giving all space to opposite player, put yourself/your goalie and your teammate in hot position and forcing them to make mistake to try to repair your own mistake, its harder to forgive for a coach who trying to develop a team system. Thats why exemple Holl played over liljegren last 2 playoff. Yes Holl missed a lot of play but he didn't put his teammate in bad situation because he was able to recognize the play and be on the right spot... but his skill set is below average...

Liljegren challenge is to show than his reading/positionning raising. Keefe give him every chance right now to see if hes able to respond, so now its liljegren job to respond and show he can be the guy keefe hoping for. His own destiny is between in hand and if he's fail, it will probably be his last season in Toronto.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Some people here man. “Liljegren is straight up garbage defensively and not physical enough. Trade his ass.” Simultaneously he actually gets scored on less and gives up less chances than other defensemen on the team and is the second best defensemen on the team offensively.

Like if you guys get what you want I guarantee you you’re going to start complaining about the team not being able to exit the zone with the puck when all of the defensemen except for Rielly can’t skate or pass the puck out.

 

[notDatsyuk]

timmins is 9th dman...

klinberg we saw him played 3 healthy game and he out for season.

liljegren where hes risky is his lack of Hockey IQ, he dont recognize the play in front of him and put himself in bad position where he missed his cover, need to hook. boston game was a great exemple, he missed his cover on 3 of 4 boston goal. What i want to see liljegren since playoff is if hes able understand whats happening around him because for me its his biggest weakness and why hes risky.

Nylander when he put effort on the ice, hes great but when he started to cheat, he can cost game to leafs like carolina game 4th goal is all nypander fault because he was affraid to put his body into shooting lane. Just about working and paying the price and if you want to win in playoff, paying the price is the only way for it. I dont hate the player, i hate when he's playing soft defensivrly because its not how you win. Taking 10 second off from only 1 player can cancel instantly 20 minutes of hard work of complete team. Its kind of details who will.make you lost in playoff so yes im concerning about it. But its not nylander
topic.

So he's our second-best RHD and you think he shouldn't get any help to improve?

I'd be interested in knowing which Boston player he was supposed to cover on a 5-on-3. I guess if you've never coached defence or even played it you may not be aware that when you are short (especially two men short) you don't cover a man, but play zone.

On the fourth goal in the Carolina game, Nylander was properly covering the points as the high man. The breakdown was by Tavares, who not only didn't cover his man, but screened the goalie.

But again, no need to make inaccurate statements about a forward when the topic is a particular defenceman.