Player Discussion How overpaid is Tavares

[nuck]

Relative to the regular season, JT outperforms Mitch in the playoffs, and certainly doesn't shy away from the physical end in the same way.

When Perry was 34 he was making 8.6, so that comparison is a bit misleading, and I've always said that the Tavares signing was a huge mistake.

Going forward, JT at 4 or 5 for a couple of years isn't a disaster.

I know this is a Tavares bashing thread but I have to ask how this can work. If you ignore the difference in regular season production, Tavares is similar to Brock Nelson who just got $7.5 x 3. There is no reality where you are getting him for $4M per year. What other old guy deals is that kind of salary based on? Marchesault got $5.5 x 5 as a 60pt a year winger with two massive playoffs but under a lower cap. We'll call Stamkos $8M x 4 a weak comp because of a 65pt playoff pace but its still out there.

Tavares hate from the last deal doesn't convert to any positive salary leverage for the club. Who are the options at 5M or 6M or even 7M? I was with you the signing was a mistake with only the first and last years being what was hoped for but that doesn't buy anything today. Last season he outproduced the #1 C on 20 other clubs so I am going to say based on Nelson, his floor in the market is north of $7.5M x 3.

Say the club holds the line at $5M x 4 and he says he will test the market. He will get his money somewhere but who will the Leafs add instead? Keep the bar low so 50% on draws and a 50 point pace over 82 games. Its not a big list. I have found zero but I will take Conn Smythe winner Bennett in spite of his warts There is no Strome or Monahan this year. I'm not a JT apologist, just trying to be realistic. Tell him to F off and lets add..... who?

 

[ULF_55]

If he has been a 50ish pt player for 7 years, why has he averaged over 70 points per year, even including the shortened seasons?

He's missed only 19 games in 7 seasons, and if you go by his ppg he's averaging 79 points per 82-game season.

You're letting facts cloud your judgement.

Just sign the best free agent center available.

I'm guessing that will be ... you guessed it name <> Bennett.

 

[ULF_55]

I know this is a Tavares bashing thread but I have to ask how this can work. If you ignore the difference in regular season production, Tavares is similar to Brock Nelson who just got $7.5 x 3. There is no reality where you are getting him for $4M per year. What other old guy deals is that kind of salary based on? Marchesault got $5.5 x 5 as a 60pt a year winger with two massive playoffs but under a lower cap. We'll call Stamkos $8M x 4 a weak comp because of a 65pt playoff pace but its still out there.

Tavares hate from the last deal doesn't convert to any positive salary leverage for the club. Who are the options at 5M or 6M or even 7M? I was with you the signing was a mistake with only the first and last years being what was hoped for but that doesn't buy anything today. Last season he outproduced the #1 C on 20 other clubs so I am going to say based on Nelson, his floor in the market is north of $7.5M x 3.

Say the club holds the line at $5M x 4 and he says he will test the market. He will get his money somewhere but who will the Leafs add instead? Keep the bar low so 50% on draws and a 50 point pace over 82 games. Its not a big list. I have found zero but I will take Conn Smythe winner Bennett in spite of his warts There is no Strome or Monahan this year. I'm not a JT apologist, just trying to be realistic. Tell him to F off and lets add..... who?

He'll get a Tanev deal.

Treliving has no problem giving 6 year deals to 34 year olds.

 

[hotpaws]

I know this is a Tavares bashing thread but I have to ask how this can work. If you ignore the difference in regular season production, Tavares is similar to Brock Nelson who just got $7.5 x 3. There is no reality where you are getting him for $4M per year. What other old guy deals is that kind of salary based on? Marchesault got $5.5 x 5 as a 60pt a year winger with two massive playoffs but under a lower cap. We'll call Stamkos $8M x 4 a weak comp because of a 65pt playoff pace but its still out there.

Tavares hate from the last deal doesn't convert to any positive salary leverage for the club. Who are the options at 5M or 6M or even 7M? I was with you the signing was a mistake with only the first and last years being what was hoped for but that doesn't buy anything today. Last season he outproduced the #1 C on 20 other clubs so I am going to say based on Nelson, his floor in the market is north of $7.5M x 3.

Say the club holds the line at $5M x 4 and he says he will test the market. He will get his money somewhere but who will the Leafs add instead? Keep the bar low so 50% on draws and a 50 point pace over 82 games. Its not a big list. I have found zero but I will take Conn Smythe winner Bennett in spite of his warts There is no Strome or Monahan this year. I'm not a JT apologist, just trying to be realistic. Tell him to F off and lets add..... who?

the problem with your argument is you totally ignore he's a passenger that's totally dependent on his linemates to create offense for him , then you combine his weak defensive play as well as his lack of production in the playoffs and you get around to the understanding that he isn't worth anywhere near 7-8 million per

there's much more to the game than just hanging around the crease/slot trying to pad your stats , that's pretty much all he can do at this point as well as being good on the draw and his game isn't going to get any better at 35

 

[NVious]

I know this is a Tavares bashing thread but I have to ask how this can work. If you ignore the difference in regular season production, Tavares is similar to Brock Nelson who just got $7.5 x 3. There is no reality where you are getting him for $4M per year. What other old guy deals is that kind of salary based on? Marchesault got $5.5 x 5 as a 60pt a year winger with two massive playoffs but under a lower cap. We'll call Stamkos $8M x 4 a weak comp because of a 65pt playoff pace but its still out there.

Tavares hate from the last deal doesn't convert to any positive salary leverage for the club. Who are the options at 5M or 6M or even 7M? I was with you the signing was a mistake with only the first and last years being what was hoped for but that doesn't buy anything today. Last season he outproduced the #1 C on 20 other clubs so I am going to say based on Nelson, his floor in the market is north of $7.5M x 3.

Say the club holds the line at $5M x 4 and he says he will test the market. He will get his money somewhere but who will the Leafs add instead? Keep the bar low so 50% on draws and a 50 point pace over 82 games. Its not a big list. I have found zero but I will take Conn Smythe winner Bennett in spite of his warts There is no Strome or Monahan this year. I'm not a JT apologist, just trying to be realistic. Tell him to F off and lets add..... who?

Bro the guy has 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 12 games vs the Panthers, is that even 4th line tier? His season numbers are a total mirage and the guy is bad mojo, why is there any talk of "needing" to pay him? He was a colossal overpaid failure, where would he get off making contract $ demands? You don't need that level of delusion around.

Is he trying to win a cup and do something meaningful or get paid? I'm pretty sure with the cap going up somebody is stupid enough to offer him a ton of money away from Toronto (who he fleeced) where he has zero chance of winning the cup (guy sucks in the playoffs), so let his greedy ass go if that's what he's after.

Tavares is an absolute last option if all else fails, there is no need for a slow/old/failure who fleeced you and was an awful captain where the team under his "leadership" failed. Either he humbles himself and shows he's committed to winning and Toronto or he can keep being an overpaid bum like he was his entire time here.

 

[notDatsyuk]

it's very sad you feel the need to make yourself look this foolish just to fluff the Mumbler

i need you think about this , if the Mumbler was even close to the player some people on this site believe he is wouldn't he have moved the needle when we signed him 7 years ago ? we've done nothing but spin our wheels with him while he shits himself every playoffs and still we have fans twisting themselves into pretzel's to come up with reasons to grossly overpay him again

it's truly remarkable how he continues to get a free pass after constantly playing like crap every playoffs

I don't think I look foolish pointing out your odd take. Do you think goals aren't the most important thing?

We've done nothing but spin out wheels with Matthews and Nylander and Marner too.

As I've mentioned before, I think signing Tavares was a mistake and it is probably the biggest reason we haven't progressed as we should have, and I don't want to overpay him again. But if he's the one you're whining about playing like crap in the playoffs, you're overlooking the biggest turd.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You're letting facts cloud your judgement.

Just sign the best free agent center available.

I'm guessing that will be ... you guessed it name <> Bennett.

I'm not judging either way - just trying to balance the viewpoints.

In that particular case, I missed that the topic had been 'playoffs', so my point was incorrect, and I admitted it.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not judging either way - just trying to balance the viewpoints.

In that particular case, I missed that the topic had been 'playoffs', so my point was incorrect, and I admitted it.

But as far as free agent centers ... there's nothing ... Bennett isn't leaving Florida.

 

[notDatsyuk]

the problem with your argument is you totally ignore he's a passenger that's totally dependent on his linemates to create offense for him , then you combine his weak defensive play as well as his lack of production in the playoffs and you get around to the understanding that he isn't worth anywhere near 7-8 million per

there's much more to the game than just hanging around the crease/slot trying to pad your stats , that's pretty much all he can do at this point as well as being good on the draw and his game isn't going to get any better at 35

Has anyone suggested he should get 7 or 8?

That's generally what people seem to think he was worth on his previous contract, and that he should be getting less (if anything) going forward.

You seem to be making unrealistic arguments against posters who are basically agreeing with you.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Bro the guy has 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 12 games vs the Panthers, is that even 4th line tier? His season numbers are a total mirage and the guy is bad mojo, why is there any talk of "needing" to pay him? He was a colossal overpaid failure, where would he get off making contract $ demands? You don't need that level of delusion around.

Is he trying to win a cup and do something meaningful or get paid? I'm pretty sure with the cap going up somebody is stupid enough to offer him a ton of money away from Toronto (who he fleeced) where he has zero chance of winning the cup (guy sucks in the playoffs), so let his greedy ass go if that's what he's after.

Tavares is an absolute last option if all else fails, there is no need for a slow/old/failure who fleeced you and was an awful captain where the team under his "leadership" failed. Either he humbles himself and shows he's committed to winning and Toronto or he can keep being an overpaid bum like he was his entire time here.

It's true. We do not need JT. It's almost pathetic the way we are entertaining him in the wake of losing him and Marner at the same time. If was just JT UFA I feel it would be more clear cut. He should be begging to come back, not the other way around. When will this donkey learn.

 

[ULF_55]

It's true. We do not need JT. It's almost pathetic the way we are entertaining him in the wake of losing him and Marner at the same time. If was just JT UFA I feel it would be more clear cut. He should be begging to come back, not the other way around. When will this donkey learn.

I think they're looking at a balanced approach to Tavares.

The options are what?