Player Discussion How overpaid is Tavares
- Thread starter hamzarocks
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What do you consider a good contract for Tavares? He put up good offensive numbers last season so if someone like Marchand is looking at $8 million, Tavares is in that ballpark as well imo. Leafs may be able to get cute and stretch it over 6-8 years but imo that is a dumb play.
Yes, we need good players. No debate.
Tavares doesnt have the ability to lead. He was the captain for 5/6 of 7 years (I cant remember if we played without a C for his first season). In that time nothing happened. In his last year he was stripped of the C and given to Matthews who imo is even worse. There are no players that we can bring in that will take all of the leadership pressure off of Tavares imo. He is what he is. I have no personal issue with him but I just think it is time for a change. I would rather the Leafs signed a combination of Duchene/Granlund/Bjugstad/Donato and get a fresh look at the situation.
Fogelhund
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At $8 mil AAV, Tavares can go play elsewhere.
At $5 mil AAV or lower, he can be the 3C. All that matters is the AAV... Frankly. $3.5-4 over six years is the ideal move for us.
He doesn't need to be a leader, or the leader.... he just needs to be a good 3C, and PP contributor.
He becomes depth, not relied on to be core, or part of the leadership group. We don't expect Benoit to be part of the leadership group either...
Tak7
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These reports that they're trying to Tanev the Tavares deal in order to keep the AAV down is absurd to me.
Just offer him a 3 year deal at a reasonable AAV, or be done with it - the Leafs have all the leverage here. He wants to stay. You haven't heard an insider, anywhere, comment on any team being interested in Tavares should he become available. That would suggest he isn't even talking to other teams.
Win a damn negotiation. There's absolutely 0 reason why Tavares should be getting 5 or 6 years of term at his age.
Just offer him a 3 year deal at a reasonable AAV, or be done with it - the Leafs have all the leverage here. He wants to stay. You haven't heard an insider, anywhere, comment on any team being interested in Tavares should he become available. That would suggest he isn't even talking to other teams.
Win a damn negotiation. There's absolutely 0 reason why Tavares should be getting 5 or 6 years of term at his age.
TMLBlueandWhite
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- Feb 2, 2023
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I got nothing against Tavares.
Other than how much he cost the last seven years. And the ripple effect his salary had on the payroll. But it's not his fault the Leafs signed him to that contact.
His performance during his tenure here is though.
Another regular season warrior who shrinks when the games matter most. Tavares was supposed to be a leader. They won exactly two playoffs series the entire time he was on this team.
The only thing he led anyone to was a bigger payday and early golfing.
He was a central figurehead during these stagnant years mired in futility. The team needs to change it's DNA and Tavares is easily replaceable. At this point I don't really care to see him back and I hope they move on from this overpaid win nothing loser.
Not that I got anything against him though.
Other than how much he cost the last seven years. And the ripple effect his salary had on the payroll. But it's not his fault the Leafs signed him to that contact.
His performance during his tenure here is though.
Another regular season warrior who shrinks when the games matter most. Tavares was supposed to be a leader. They won exactly two playoffs series the entire time he was on this team.
The only thing he led anyone to was a bigger payday and early golfing.
He was a central figurehead during these stagnant years mired in futility. The team needs to change it's DNA and Tavares is easily replaceable. At this point I don't really care to see him back and I hope they move on from this overpaid win nothing loser.
Not that I got anything against him though.
Fogelhund
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Strongly disagree.
The most important factor is managing Cap space.
Let's suppose the number is $6 mil per..... Would you rather have 3 x $6 mil per... or 6 x $3.5 mil? All that matters is AAV, and our ability to build depth. He is a pre-age 35, so he can retire, or go LTIR later on, if needed...
But the most important factor, is Cap space, not what he gets paid overall. Spreading it over term, reduces our cap allotment to him, without actually changing what he gets over time. It's cap management, and to not use "tricks" available to us, or deferment of some sort would be foolish.
Tak7
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Give me $6m x 3.
We did this hypothetical super savings crap before Chris Tanev signed last year, only to realize that going long on term probably saved the Leafs $500k, max.
Much like I don't want Tanev's aging deal on the books when he can no longer play, I don't want an aging, slowing down John Tavares signed into his 40s blocking significant cap space either.
And before we get into Robidas Island / LTIR, going into LTIR still prevents you from accruing cap space throughout the season, which severely limits what you can accomplish come trade deadline etc.
Flying under the wheel.
In my opinion, the 2nd largest reason the core 4 failed. Tavares is sooooooo slow. Before this year it was a straight decline every single season since signing his contract.
He was supposed to be a #1C pushing Matthews, but even with players like Marner or Nylander, never really actually improved. His stats should have improved as playing with better linemates than NYI, but one key factor stopped him.
The game passed him up. With players like McDavid and Mack, can you really be an elite #1 C with Tavares' speed? No chance.
He went to a 2C status pretty quick, had horrible chemistry with our speedster Nylander. The last couple years he's been 3C in the playoffs. Not looking at points in the regular season, which are stacked towards PP and gimmies against teams that give space in the regular season. How much play driving did Tavares do this playoffs? 0? He finished some plays I guess? Pats was better lol.
Anyways, I'd take him back at 3x5-6m, but I wouldn't be happy.
In my opinion, the 2nd largest reason the core 4 failed. Tavares is sooooooo slow. Before this year it was a straight decline every single season since signing his contract.
He was supposed to be a #1C pushing Matthews, but even with players like Marner or Nylander, never really actually improved. His stats should have improved as playing with better linemates than NYI, but one key factor stopped him.
The game passed him up. With players like McDavid and Mack, can you really be an elite #1 C with Tavares' speed? No chance.
He went to a 2C status pretty quick, had horrible chemistry with our speedster Nylander. The last couple years he's been 3C in the playoffs. Not looking at points in the regular season, which are stacked towards PP and gimmies against teams that give space in the regular season. How much play driving did Tavares do this playoffs? 0? He finished some plays I guess? Pats was better lol.
Anyways, I'd take him back at 3x5-6m, but I wouldn't be happy.
Fogelhund
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Karlsson, Zbad, Granlund would be my top three choices, in no particular order.
Well 2 are under contract so not available. And if we can’t get granlund then what? I’d suggest we get Granlund who is as good anyway before deciding Tavares is now a 3 C.
Fogelhund
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By all reports, both are likely to be available.
Zbad is an absolute to be moved, I can pretty much guarantee you that will happen.
Karlsson will be moved, if they pick up a Marner, or similar type forward... they are reported to be looking to make changes.
I’d be a big fan of Tre if he could land one for players we have in the bottom 6. He’s already traded our 1sts
Tak7
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Mika Z doesn't feel like a fit, at all, here.
Doesn't play the Berube system.
Declining.
In his 30s.
Lots of term left on his deal.
Lots of money left on his deal.
His deal is basically buyout proof.
I can't comprehend why his name is being suggested here.
The Shadow
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Agreed they need new voices in the room but I’d make sure Rielly was one of the first people out. Yes he plays decent in the playoffs but he also is weak defensively and is not a true number 1 d. They moved him off the power play because he wasn’t doing the job.
Fogelhund
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Zbad will be traded for a cost we can easily afford. The challenge is the first 50 games last year, he was bad. Poor defensively, poor effort, and didn't score much. Many question he has declined. However, the last 31 games, he put up 33 points, and was a positive +- player. Rangers and Zbad both want to move on... really, there is something wrong in the Rangers org.. as a number of players want out, and they are in a bit of a free fall. It's up to Pro Scouting to see if he's in decline, or just had a bad half year. Personally, I think it was a bad half year, but I'm just an armchair guy.... I'd take him with some cap withheld, for someone like Domi... or with no cap withheld, and an asset attached, like K'Andre Miller... (who also wants out).
Karlsson might be in demand, and a challenge for us asset wise. I was hoping maybe we could do a sign and trade with Marner, and that could work for both parties... but Marner seems to be leaning to a four year deal... thus no need for a 8 year sign and trade. But, you've still got to ask. He'd be a great add.
Failing that... there is Giroux, if he doesn't extend with Ottawa (which I think is likely).
Another option might be Coyle, who is alleged to be on the trade block, as Avalanche have committed to Brock Nelson, and will likely have to move Coyle. Coyle has some decent seasons, is physical, reasonable cap hit, and has chemistry with Marchand... who we are rumoured to be in on.. Marchand Coyle Nylander would be a decent all around 2nd line.
There are enough options out there this year, and a number of teams going to have to dump players, for cap reasons... such as Dallas and Marchment, and Oilers will need to dump someone (E. Kane?)
Fogelhund
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Tak7
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Did you watch the Rangers at all... ?
He was awful, and at times was relegated to their third line.
In general I put very little stock into what non-playoff teams do once their season is over - garbage time points stacks aren't impressive at all. The Sabres have proven time and time again they are meaningless.
The Shadow
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In his defense was anyone good on the rangers this year?
I expect most of them to have bounce back years with a change of scenery. Something stinks there.
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his offense never died and technically he was underpaid, as he was offered more $$
as a UFA he 'could' make 10+ again if he choses to leave
we want him on the cheap, but, he is the best C by a wide margin, regardless of Bennetts playoffs prowess
Fogelhund
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Yes, in the first half of the season, he was awful.
He really wasn't on the third line for much time... Line Combinations - Frozen Tools
But then, pretty much all of our elite players had third line minutes too.
Sabres players have also proven, time and time again, that when they get out of a bad situation, they can be good players.
Did you watch the Rangers at all, in the last half of the season? He was actually pretty good... again, did you watch? In general, I put very little stock, in a half of a season of poor play, on a team with the wheels falling off the bus.
Dude had 31 pts in 51 playoff games
He was horrific in the playoffs. A 3rd line center making 11M and was the biggest reason the core choked.
Since becoming a leaf, his regular seasons play so him be: 24th in PTS, 38th in Assists, 16th in goals
Per game he was lower, as his ppg dropped to 33rd in the league, and I'm sure his gpg and apg also dropped similarly.
He was making 11M which was a top 10 AAV every year. He was never a top 10 player even once on his deal. He was only a top 20 player once in 2019.
The dude was incredibly overpaid and delivered no where close to expected output. He was a bust for us
PanniniClaus
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This is why he must take peanuts to stay. Does he really want to help us win? If not, go away.
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McDavid scored his 1st goal, vs Florida last game, and he hasnt done squat outside of the PP, and he's the best player on the planet
...your opponents DO impact your stats!
we always play the hardest teams as they are all in the Atlantic. if we were playing in the shootout west, JT would likely be at PPG or not very far off, but, we play in the hardest most stifling division.
No Tavares sucks, no excuses.
He sucks and is a 50ish pt player. He has been for 7 years now.
McDavid has dominated with 7 pts in 5 games. How his pts come doesnt matter. He has been very productive and driven his teams offense
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