Kings Article: How Much Credit Does Dean Lombardi Really Deserve For His Team’s Success?

[Axl Rhoadz]

 

[lumbergh]

Let's not forget that Lombardi was bequeathed a team with Kopitar, Brown, and Quick, three big pillars of the team today. He's also made some blunders along the way.

What he did right (installing a quality development program, instilling a team philosophy, a few of trades that brought in the right parts, etc.) made a huge difference. Maybe the Kings don't win Cups without him, but he's absolutely right that the players and coaches deserve much of the credit for the success.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

2 cups. TWO. In 3 years! This hasn't sunk in yet for most folks, but 2 cups in 3 years, 3 straight WCF's, more playoff games than anyone, a couple dozen playoff records set or broken... this is the KINGS.

Hallelujah! Holy ****! Where's the Tylenol? I still can't believe it.

"Surprised Eddie?... If I woke up tomorrow with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be more surprised than I am now".

I don't think i realized the magnitude of the negative impact Tim Lieweke had on this organization prior to Dean's arrival until his latest escapades with Maple Leafs. That doesn't mean the Kings would have been a championship organization if he wasn't around just that he simply got in the way. Dean removed that problem and put in place the rest of the framework for success. How fitting is it that Lieweke told Dean not to hire Sutter and Sutter now has two Cups under his belt.

 

[kingsfan]

Hallelujah! Holy ****! Where's the Tylenol? I still can't believe it.

Let's not forget that Lombardi was bequeathed a team with Kopitar, Brown, and Quick, three big pillars of the team today. He's also made some blunders along the way.

What he did right (installing a quality development program, instilling a team philosophy, a few of trades that brought in the right parts, etc.) made a huge difference. Maybe the Kings don't win Cups without him, but he's absolutely right that the players and coaches deserve much of the credit for the success.

While its true he had Quick, Kopitar and Brown, the only one to play a pro game in North America before DL arrived was Brown. DL and his staff deserve a fair share of the credit on helping develop all three. As someone else mentioned as well, name a team that a new GM took over that didn't have some form of talent already in the pipeline, or didn't make blunders. Arguably the worst blunder was trading away Teddy Purcell and drafting Colten Teubert. Terrible moves but not nearly as bad as some other GM's have pulled off.

I agree that a fair portion of the credit goes to the players, coaches, etc. but DL is the only guy in the organization who is involved in every department, and he's pretty much had the Midas touch for the last three or four years now.

 

[cyclones22]

While its true he had Quick, Kopitar and Brown, the only one to play a pro game in North America before DL arrived was Brown. DL and his staff deserve a fair share of the credit on helping develop all three. As someone else mentioned as well, name a team that a new GM took over that didn't have some form of talent already in the pipeline, or didn't make blunders. Arguably the worst blunder was trading away Teddy Purcell and drafting Colten Teubert. Terrible moves but not nearly as bad as some other GM's have pulled off.

I agree that a fair portion of the credit goes to the players, coaches, etc. but DL is the only guy in the organization who is involved in every department, and he's pretty much had the Midas touch for the last three or four years now.

Pretty much. How many Kings players were ruined over the years by being called up too early? Hell, Brown had no business being on the active roster as an 18 year old. Luckily for his development, the lockout season happened and Brown was forced to play in the AHL the entire year and I'm sure that helped his game. Quick had to pay his dues to get into the NHL under Dean's watch. There is no NHL franchise devoid of talent. It's up to the management staff to make sure that talent gets cultivated.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The kind of success the Kings have had the last few years obviously takes more than one guy. Lombardi is certainly sitting at the head table as the GM, but he's not the only one.

So many different things have to come together at the right time as well, in addition to the hard work. Johnson not wanting to sign with the defending champs to stay in school. Without the cap, are the Flyers trading one of Richards or Carter, let alone both? Carter not working out in Columbus. Gaborik being available for nothing, and Columbus willing to retain half his salary. Sutter ending up as the absolutely perfect coach for this team. The list can go on.

 

[xavi4life]

For me, 2012 seemed like a fantasy. And still is, in some ways.

But I believe it now, to my core, after experiencing 2014. The pain and suffering of the ups and downs of THAT playoff run CONVINCED me we won the championship.

Agreed. It's still surreal though, the Kings and Stanley Cup Champions used in the same sentence still sounds strange. I mean, I still remember Yannick Perrault as #1 center, and Craig MF Johnson...

Admittedly I became a young fan under the Gretzky days, but man was it ****ing bleak up until 2012.

 

[kingsfan]

Agreed. It's still surreal though, the Kings and Stanley Cup Champions used in the same sentence still sounds strange. I mean, I still remember Yannick Perrault as #1 center, and Craig MF Johnson...

Admittedly I became a young fan under the Gretzky days, but man was it ****ing bleak up until 2012.

I was 11 when I became Kings fan. I followed Gretzky to LA. I know there were a few days I cursed the hockey gods for having Gretzky go to LA and exploiting my boyhood hero mentality!

I think the day I realized I needed help was when I seriously contemplated the value of having Erik Rasmussen as a top six forward. Dark days indeed, but the fruits of those long days sure is sweet now! That was a long ride on the bandwagon.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I've gotten into some bad arguments on this board over this, but I believe Lombardi gets an appropriate amount of credit.

Not all GMing is accomplished in a vacuum of meticulous decision making. Sometimes, you're just lucky. Sometimes, the right amount of circumstances fall into place for you to capitalize. Dean has had quite a few of these instances work tremendously in his favor. Richards and Carter inexplicably being shipped out of Philly. Having B. Schenn at the absolute zenith of his value as a prospect at the same time. Carter not working in Columbus, Gaborik not working in Columbus, Smyth requesting a trade pre-2012, which was not in Dean's plan. A lot of luck has played into the building of this team, as it should have. Gotta be good to be lucky, and vice versa.

I do believe his drafting is fairly overrated, and he's produced some first round stinkers. His decision to hire and then fire TM, followed by universally panned hiring of Sutter paint him as the smartest man in the room.

He's the GM of a team that has won two championships in three years. That's all the credit you need in the end.

 

[JT8888]

I think the day I realized I needed help was when I seriously contemplated the value of having Erik Rasmussen as a top six forward. Dark days indeed, but the fruits of those long days sure is sweet now! That was a long ride on the bandwagon.

those were some painful days

 

[Steve Zissou]

I've gotten into some bad arguments on this board over this, but I believe Lombardi gets an appropriate amount of credit.

Not all GMing is accomplished in a vacuum of meticulous decision making. Sometimes, you're just lucky. Sometimes, the right amount of circumstances fall into place for you to capitalize. Dean has had quite a few of these instances work tremendously in his favor. Richards and Carter inexplicably being shipped out of Philly. Having B. Schenn at the absolute zenith of his value as a prospect at the same time. Carter not working in Columbus, Gaborik not working in Columbus, Smyth requesting a trade pre-2012, which was not in Dean's plan. A lot of luck has played into the building of this team, as it should have. Gotta be good to be lucky, and vice versa.

I do believe his drafting is fairly overrated, and he's produced some first round stinkers. His decision to hire and then fire TM, followed by universally panned hiring of Sutter paint him as the smartest man in the room.

So let me get this straight...

DL will get completely **** on if he trades for these players if they don't perform

* Brittle Bones Gaborik
* oft injured Justin Williams
* Unhappy, whiny baby Carter in Columbus
* Sells the farm in Shenn + Simmer for Richards

...but if they do perform and ::cough:: win 2 Stanley Cups in 3 seasons and he's considering 'lucky'...!?!?

And while we're at it let's just completely throw out that Sutter was a complete WTF from right field that no one considered or got behind until later in the season.

DL might laugh and say it's luck because he's modest, but the dude is calculated and does his homework to a T.

'Lucky...'. Ha. Laughable.

 

[HookKing]

"Surprised Eddie?... If I woke up tomorrow with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be more surprised than I am now".

I don't think i realized the magnitude of the negative impact Tim Lieweke had on this organization prior to Dean's arrival until his latest escapades with Maple Leafs. That doesn't mean the Kings would have been a championship organization if he wasn't around just that he simply got in the way. Dean removed that problem and put in place the rest of the framework for success. How fitting is it that Lieweke told Dean not to hire Sutter and Sutter now has two Cups under his belt.

You do know that without TL, TM would still have been the coach and the Kings would have 0 cups and a new GM? Two wrongs made a right.

 

[Ron*]

I've gotten into some bad arguments on this board over this, but I believe Lombardi gets an appropriate amount of credit.

Not all GMing is accomplished in a vacuum of meticulous decision making. Sometimes, you're just lucky. Sometimes, the right amount of circumstances fall into place for you to capitalize. Dean has had quite a few of these instances work tremendously in his favor. Richards and Carter inexplicably being shipped out of Philly. Having B. Schenn at the absolute zenith of his value as a prospect at the same time. Carter not working in Columbus, Gaborik not working in Columbus, Smyth requesting a trade pre-2012, which was not in Dean's plan. A lot of luck has played into the building of this team, as it should have. Gotta be good to be lucky, and vice versa.

I do believe his drafting is fairly overrated, and he's produced some first round stinkers. His decision to hire and then fire TM, followed by universally panned hiring of Sutter paint him as the smartest man in the room.

He's the GM of a team that has won two championships in three years. That's all the credit you need in the end.

 

[kingsfan]

You do know that without TL, TM would still have been the coach and the Kings would have 0 cups and a new GM? Two wrongs made a right.

There's no way to know this for sure. I think Sutter is a better coach than Murray but it's not like Sutter's team was lighting the world on fire until the Carter deal, and there's no reason to think DL wouldn't have done the Carter deal with Murray in place.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

So let me get this straight...

DL will get completely **** on if he trades for these players if they don't perform

* Brittle Bones Gaborik
* oft injured Justin Williams
* Unhappy, whiny baby Carter in Columbus
* Sells the farm in Shenn + Simmer for Richards

...but if they do perform and ::cough:: win 2 Stanley Cups in 3 seasons and he's considering 'lucky'...!?!?

And while we're at it let's just completely throw out that Sutter was a complete WTF from right field that no one considered or got behind until later in the season.

DL might laugh and say it's luck because he's modest, but the dude is calculated and does his homework to a T.

'Lucky...'. Ha. Laughable.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Some people cannot emotionally handle whatever it is that makes their brain fritz out at the mention of the word "luck."

ALL CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS EXPERIENCE A DEGREE OF LUCK. Its not trashing Dean or the franchise. It's simply acknowledging reality.

Of course Dean did his ****ing homework. He's a fantastic GM; I would expect nothing less of him. I give him full marks for taking chances on reclamation projects like Williams and Gaborik. I also give him full marks for instituting the best fitness and wellness staff in the NHL, whom deserve the true credit in this team's freakish good health.

But all of that doesn't change the fact that we DO NOT get Richards and Carter, and then go on to win a Cup, without the circumstantial stars aligning. Give credit to Dean for being in the position to see those stars aligning and take advantage of it, but don't act as if it was "all a part of the plan." It wasn't. Dean himself will tell you he's not that smart.

Smyth was supposed to play out his contract here, according to Dean himself. Carter pouted his way out of Columbus and set his trade value at an absurdly low price. Richards was THE franchise in Philadelphia, yet somehow is traded. Without those circumstances, completely out of Dean's control, rolling in his favor, we don't get either Richards or Carter in 2012, potentially miss the playoffs, and who knows what happens.

Christ, it's not bashing the man. He's, IMO, the best GM working today. But I swear, mention "luck" around here and it's like opening a bottle of holy water in a castle of Romania. Stop being so insecure.

 

[King RAZZ]

90% DL
7% DT
3% 'Lumbus

 

[HookKing]

There's no way to know this for sure. I think Sutter is a better coach than Murray but it's not like Sutter's team was lighting the world on fire until the Carter deal, and there's no reason to think DL wouldn't have done the Carter deal with Murray in place.

True. But remember, it was Sutter that went and got King and Nolan, yes he brought them up to play with Richards and that was disastrous but they ended up in more suitable roles...TM doesn't do that. The rest of the team had tuned TM out, the frustration was so clear that the team had become a laughingstock.

 

[Steve Zissou]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Some people cannot emotionally handle whatever it is that makes their brain fritz out at the mention of the word "luck."

ALL CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS EXPERIENCE A DEGREE OF LUCK. Its not trashing Dean or the franchise. It's simply acknowledging reality.

Of course Dean did his ****ing homework. He's a fantastic GM; I would expect nothing less of him. I give him full marks for taking chances on reclamation projects like Williams and Gaborik. I also give him full marks for instituting the best fitness and wellness staff in the NHL, whom deserve the true credit in this team's freakish good health.

But all of that doesn't change the fact that we DO NOT get Richards and Carter, and then go on to win a Cup, without the circumstantial stars aligning. Give credit to Dean for being in the position to see those stars aligning and take advantage of it, but don't act as if it was "all a part of the plan." It wasn't. Dean himself will tell you he's not that smart.

Smyth was supposed to play out his contract here, according to Dean himself. Carter pouted his way out of Columbus and set his trade value at an absurdly low price. Richards was THE franchise in Philadelphia, yet somehow is traded. Without those circumstances, completely out of Dean's control, rolling in his favor, we don't get either Richards or Carter in 2012, potentially miss the playoffs, and who knows what happens.

Christ, it's not bashing the man. He's, IMO, the best GM working today. But I swear, mention "luck" around here and it's like opening a bottle of holy water in a castle of Romania. Stop being so insecure.

Your 'What If' scenarios do not equal luck.

You mention that people are always getting their feathers ruffled around here when you use the word luck... I'd suggest re-examing your chose of words then.

If anything I consider us 'lucky' DL didn't land Kovalchuk since he bolted to the KHL.

DL didn't have a gun to his head to make those trades nor did they fall right in his lap. It took brass balls.

Look at Craig Button... the dude still thinks DL got hosed for giving away JJ and a 1st for Carter.

It's not luck, it's ****ing reality.

 

[santiclaws]

I don't think i realized the magnitude of the negative impact Tim Lieweke had on this organization prior to Dean's arrival until his latest escapades with Maple Leafs. That doesn't mean the Kings would have been a championship organization if he wasn't around just that he simply got in the way. Dean removed that problem and put in place the rest of the framework for success. How fitting is it that Lieweke told Dean not to hire Sutter and Sutter now has two Cups under his belt.

And who was it that identified Lombardi as the best man for the job and convinced him to come to LA instead of whatever "traditional" hockey market also offered him the GM gig? How long after Taylor was fired did it take for rumors to surface that LA was going hard after Lombardi? A few days? And who was it who gave Lombardi the authority to make necessary personnel decisions, such as hiring Sutter, regardless of whether Leiweke agreed with his choice? Like it or not, Leiweke played a huge part in bringing the Cup(s) to LA because without Leiweke, there'd be no Lombardi to build a championship team.

 

[kingsfan]

True. But remember, it was Sutter that went and got King and Nolan, yes he brought them up to play with Richards and that was disastrous but they ended up in more suitable roles...TM doesn't do that. The rest of the team had tuned TM out, the frustration was so clear that the team had become a laughingstock.

Yes, DS did that I do agree that TM likely wouldn't have. And yes they were helpful in getting us into the playoffs. But this team was still sitting outside the playoffs when the Carter deal was made. THAT is, IMO anyways, what really catapulted this team forward. It allowed us to shift guys around and have two legit scoring lines for the first time in like a decade. The fact our offense took off for the rest of that season after that to me backs it up.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Your 'What If' scenarios do not equal luck.

You mention that people are always getting their feathers ruffled around here when you use the word luck... I'd suggest re-examing your chose of words then.

If anything I consider us 'lucky' DL didn't land Kovalchuk since he bolted to the KHL.

DL didn't have a gun to his head to make those trades nor did they fall right in his lap. It took brass balls.

Look at Craig Button... the dude still thinks DL got hosed for giving away JJ and a 1st for Carter.

It's not luck, it's ****ing reality.

I'm pretty sure no one in the hockey world believes anything bad about DL or the Kings right now, but okay.

DL DID have a gun to his head in 2012. The Kings were a black hole of suck in late 2011/early 2012 and were on the verge of missing the playoffs. DL's job was on the line. But honestly, that's an entirely different argument.

The main issue I have with this discussion, why it makes me so frustrated and immediately defensive, is that I feel people are projecting the circa-2014 playoffs "Kings are lucky!" idiocy onto what I'm trying to say. We all heard that crap from every imbecilic, sour grapes opposing fan and it drove us all insane. I get that.

What upsets me is that I get the feeling that there's now this "us against them", black or white, extremely dichotomized mindset when it comes to offering public discourse on this team. Seven years ago, we were one of the most honest, thoughtful, and reflective fanbases in the entire National Hockey League. We praised praiseworthy things, lamented lamentable things, and cooler heads always prevailed. Now, it's almost as if this delirium of success is writing its own revisionist history. If you're not praising the ground DL walks on, you're immediately dismissed, wrong, etc. I really don't like that. It stifles interesting discussion and is, frankly, stupid. No man is perfect, certainly in the world of professional sports.

In a thread titled "how much credit does DL deserve?" I would hope we could engage in an interesting look back on how this team was built. Not everything went according to some genius master plan of Lombardi's. Again, he'll tell you that himself. But it seems as if some won't even CONSIDER the notion that good fortune played a role in the Kings success. That baffles me. It's like looking at the sky and telling me it's green. I think it's that absurd of a mindset, to believe luck played little or no factor. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm crazy, but all I see there is a flat refusal to be objective, plain and simple.

When I look at the circumstances of 2012, specifically, I see DL performing masterfully in the clutch, but I also see good fortune. In my mind, that doesn't denigrate DL in the slightest. According to others, that's akin to robbing the man of his due. I simply don't see it that way.

I can't describe how much these recent championships, and the Kings, mean to me, especially 2014. April-July 2014 were some of the hardest months I've ever experienced in my 30 years, but that run kept me afloat, emotionally. I love DL for what he's done with a franchise I consider as special to me as my own family. It's bizarre and irrational and illogical as any rabid sports fandom can be, but I cherish it.

With all that said, I don't feel one ounce of guilt or shame or anger when someone points out the objectively good fortuned events in the team's recent history. From the Kovalchuk non-signing, to Smyth demanding a trade, to Richards and Carter being available for the perfect prices at the perfect times...it's just completely asinine to turn a blind eye to the good fortune there. It doesn't mean it's ALL luck. It doesn't mean that Dean didn't build this team brilliantly and make the right moves at the right time. It's simply acknowledging the good fortune of circumstance, circumstance DL was wise enough to take advantage of.

That's literally all I'm trying to say. When people react to that as if I said the Kings literally lucked their way to two Cups, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. That's NOT what I'm saying.

I don't know if that clears anything up, but if not, there's probably no point in continuing the argument anyway.

 

[jfont]

Then tell him to send some my way. Do you have any idea how many crazy superstitions I had to do for these two cups?

Yeah, all your ritual sacrifices ... Not to mention your handle changes..

 

[jfont]

I've gotten into some bad arguments on this board over this, but I believe Lombardi gets an appropriate amount of credit.

Not all GMing is accomplished in a vacuum of meticulous decision making. Sometimes, you're just lucky. Sometimes, the right amount of circumstances fall into place for you to capitalize. Dean has had quite a few of these instances work tremendously in his favor. Richards and Carter inexplicably being shipped out of Philly. Having B. Schenn at the absolute zenith of his value as a prospect at the same time. Carter not working in Columbus, Gaborik not working in Columbus, Smyth requesting a trade pre-2012, which was not in Dean's plan. A lot of luck has played into the building of this team, as it should have. Gotta be good to be lucky, and vice versa.

I do believe his drafting is fairly overrated, and he's produced some first round stinkers. His decision to hire and then fire TM, followed by universally panned hiring of Sutter paint him as the smartest man in the room.

He's the GM of a team that has won two championships in three years. That's all the credit you need in the end.

Agree with this post...

 

[BallPointHammer]

No one knows what's going to happen until it happens. I think the point with Lombardi is that, from day one, he has done all the things he said he was going to do. That's what a leader with vision and resolve does. He put the process in place, followed through and it has worked wonderfully. In hindsight, the reality of where we are today is like its own phenomenon. It is what it is and the primary reason for it is Lombardi.

 

[The Butcher]

2 cups. TWO. In 3 years! This hasn't sunk in yet for most folks, but 2 cups in 3 years, 3 straight WCF's, more playoff games than anyone, a couple dozen playoff records set or broken... this is the KINGS.

Hallelujah! Holy ****! Where's the Tylenol? I still can't believe it.

yyyyip.