How Much Better is This Team With Berube/New Personnel?

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DitchMarner

What's The Definition of Impressive?
Jul 21, 2017
11,597
8,875
Brampton, ON
These assertions are based on my observations, impressions and feelings (so there's bound to be a fair degree of subjectivity) as well as some basic stats and data (like goals, goals against, corsi etc). If people can use more advanced stats to rebut or refute any of these claims (or support any, for that matter), that would be welcomed.

My overall sentiment toward the 2024-2025 Maple Leafs is that while this team is clearly better than last year's version in some respects, I am not convinced the team is that much better overall.

I think it's obvious that the team is tidier and more comfortable in its own end this year, and I'm sure many opponents would acknowledge that the Leafs are harder and more unpleasant to play against in their zone compared to past seasons. However, it seems that much of the improvement in goals against can be attributed more to goaltending than to team defense. I believe data I've seen in the past has suggested that the team isn't actually that much better in terms of preventing shots or scoring chances against. However, I do want to say that I think there are things XGF% models and the like don't account for. For example, if the team is giving up X number of dangerous chances per hour of play five on five and that number isn't much better than last year's, it could be the case that goalies are generally seeing shots better (due to better positioning by defenders and boxing out in front of the net). Again, from watching, the play in front of the net seems tidier and guys like Tanev and McCabe aren't shy when it comes to doling out physical punishment.

My main qualms are that offensive production is lower and offensive possession time is down. To be fair, I think a lot of the lost offense can be attributed to the fact that Matthews hasn't been healthy all year and has been unable to shoot the way he can. However, it gets really frustrating watching this team often fail to control the play or maintain possession in the attacking zone. It seems rush chances are down as well.

It also seems the Leafs constantly squeak out wins this season (when they do win) whereas in the past, they would have some games where they would blow the opposition away with their offense. Sometimes you don't want to stress and want the easy win. They seem to always make it difficult on themselves this year.


Overall, I'm not sure the improvements in team defense and keeping the puck out of the net significantly outweigh the declines in offensive output and ability to possess the puck and play in the other team's end. I'm worried that this team is going to get so caught up in trying to defend that it's going to once again fail to score enough in a series-deciding game. It is important to keep in mind that often offense has been a bigger reason for TOR's failure in series than defense in recent years already. How many goals did the Leafs score in their final games of the series against CLB, MTL, TB in 2022 and BOS last year?
 
We lost 3 in a row, and yes, we haven’t played well even during the win streak. It takes time for new systems to click and a team begins to excel at it. Yet we were 1st in the division a week ago. I’m reminded that the panthers barely got into the playoffs a couple years ago when Maurice arrived.

I like the direction, I’m not overly concerned about a few game stretch. There are ups and downs in a season, we’re in a down. I’m optimistic they will figure it out.
 
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We lost 3 in a row, and yes, we haven’t played well even during the win streak. It takes time for new systems to click and team begin to excel at it. Yet we were 1st in the division a week ago. I’m reminded that the panthers barely got into the playoffs a couple years ago when Maurice arrived.

I like the direction, I’m overly concerned about a few game stretch. There are ups and downs in a season, we’re in a down. I’m optimistic they will figure it out.
there were numerous games before that they really didn’t deserve to win and were outplayed badly. The Boston one from last week is also an example of that
 
it's the same core guys, it's the same team and it hangs on the same condition:

if the core 4 can produce, we will go far

maybe stolarz or woll can make it a bit easier on them, but our depth still isn't great.
 
there were numerous games before that they really didn’t deserve to win and were outplayed badly. The Boston one from last week is also an example of that

I’ve acknowledged this in my post. It’s fair criticism. They always go through bad stretches in a season, every team does. The fact they can win games when the do is encouraging. Our goaltending also hasn’t been as good, no reason they can’t find their form again.
 
I don't know if they are tbh or if it's just goaltending masking the issues that are still there.

3rd coach
3rd gm
10+ goalies

Same result so far in the season, another good, not great, not awful season.

Hmmm WHAT COULD IT BE??? Lol
 
I think we are in a better spot, but, there's still the possibility that the new guys just don't work on this team (more so with Laughton). That said, I certainly don't hold judgement either way after just one game. Conversely, I've seen quite a few players come in who looked great at first (Owen Nolan, I'm looking at you), but then turned to ghosts in the playoffs.
 
If they had the Rielly and Matthews from last season they would be first overall. If those two were half way there they would have 5 more wins. If the coach is responsible for the weak play that is a real problem but if the wilt is on the players the club is doing surprisingly well. Tanev is also a big part of what has won them games so with him out they are not the same club. If I had to base an opinion of the team on the first two periods last night I would say that's not good coaching but lets see how they bounce back.
 
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I think we are in a better spot, but, there's still the possibility that the new guys just don't work on this team (more so with Laughton). That said, I certainly don't hold judgement either way after just one game. Conversely, I've seen quite a few players come in who looked great at first (Owen Nolan, I'm looking at you), but then turned to ghosts in the playoffs.

Oh, you definitely have to wait longer to do a proper and fair assessment of Laughton and Carlo.

This thread is more about the team this season in general (with Berube instead of Keefe and the additions in the off-season as well as the recent ones).

You can't say the record is bad considering the issues Matthews has dealt with, but the team leaves me wanting more a lot of the time. In many wins this season, the Leafs' overall play hasn't impressed me a great deal.

Now, maybe they'll turn it up a notch or two in terms of intensity and offensive zone aggression in the playoffs and will continue to get better goaltending and defensive play than in the past and Berube will look like a genius. I guess time will tell.
 
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Oh, you definitely have to wait longer to do a proper and fair assessment of Laughton and Carlo.

Carlo will be solid but there's no upside on Laughton. Basically if Laughton doesn't have the terrible glaring defensive mistakes he displayed in Colorado, and engaged in a little forecheck action, that would be his upside.
 
Our team is being propped up by goaltending... we've been bad.

I actually think Treliving did fairly well at the deadline despite getting rid of the equivalent of 2x1st + 2x2nd (depending on how you see the players we gave up, I think it is closer to 4x1st).

But ya, the team doesn't look good... the D is not doing well either despite everyone claiming it is a good group of D.

If anyone who disagrees would like to explain how this team hasn't been propped up by good goaltending so far without saying "muhhh built for playoffs" that'd be nice.
 
Carlo will be solid but there's no upside on Laughton. Basically if Laughton doesn't have the terrible glaring defensive mistakes he displayed in Colorado, and engaged in a little forecheck action, that would be his upside.

There is the possibility that we just acquired a ruddier looking version of Connor Dewar. Time will tell.
 
Like the Carlo acquisition, didn't want Laughton. Time will tell.

In fact, if I can find it, I had a recent post where I suggested going after Jankowski for a late pick; Apparently Tulsky got that memo and paid a 5th for him. Sure, his debut of two goals is an outlier, but the outlay was appropriate and he's $800K next season - no salary to pay to retain, y'all.

Fabian Zetterlund was another player I mentioned wanting. He cost less than Laughton, but he is what he is despite apparent contract talks having headed south with Grier; He was a plus on San Jose. He hits, scores, etc., When I thought of him I thought of certain unfortunate circumstances we find ourselves in with Marner. Some prospects and a 2nd yielded a very good up and coming two-way forward who will come in under what Knies will make.

But part of the optics of moves like that separate us from management of the recent past where it seems every move we make requires premium assets.

Zetterlund AND Jankowski cost less than Laughton. I wanted Soucy - he cost less than Carlo.

It raises the question if there's a price for dealing with Toronto outside and inside the market. If there is, it's a little like Stephen speaking to William in BRAVEHEART before the battle: "The Lord tells me He can get me out of this mess, but He's pretty sure...you're f-d."

(Oh and Mods: WOW is connectivity to the place shot to hell; I was connected to a different member's account, but thankfully without being able to access it.)
 
Berube has been the biggest disappointment so far this season. The team started playing his style early on then by December he gave up on it. For a coach whos calling card is accountability and tough hockey hes failed on both fronts. Might as well have kept Keefe.
 
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The team does some things better but is not better.

The team is actually worse, but has better tending.

In the playoffs they should be better though. How much better I don't know, it looks like the buy in is mixed. Accountability is zero. I have low expectations with high hopes obviously.
 
Berube is nothing special as a coach. Robertson actually playing well but gets scratched for Jarnkrok, and he plays AHLers like Holmberg in the top 6 instead of giving Robbie a chance. Berube is just a meathead. We're not going to be better because of him.
 
They are better but they spent much too much capital to be better. That said, they have a couple of key years to get it right with a new GM and philosophy.

The decisions should have been made 4 years ago, this much has been obvious to anyone who understands hockey. Since these decisions weren't made, Leafs are going to have to demand more from within and pick up the type of guys up front they have been picking up in the back end. This is a major opportunity for Robertson, Knies and McMann in particualar to become character, "I'm-not-backing-down" types of players.

I've already seen more push back from Robertson, he seems to have had an epiphany where he realizes "I will make my own career, nothing is guaranteed if I don't want it enough". Knies drops the gloves in a fight to enact justice against a guy who hurt him. This isn't the 80s or 90s where two fighters agree to meet, this is a non-fighter defending himself. A gargantuan difference.

If a team is not difficult to play against. If opposing teams look forward to visiting your arena because they know, win or lose it will be a nice relaxing night, if you don't invoke trepidation and discomfort in a team walking into your arena; than your team is not built for NHL: playoff hockey. If Leafs make the right decisions, between now and next years deadline they can build such a team.

I urge people to watch Brad Marchands press conference from Florida today. Listen to his words and his description of the type of team Florida is, why he admires where he is, the difference between team "types". Here is a guy who played on one of the most dominate lines in NHL history, has had multiple deeps runs and owned the Leafs in the playoffs, and, he has a ring on his hand.

This isn't rocket science. Berubes approach to the game is better, slowly he is getting the personnel needed. It's going to take addition by subtraction to get there. Do the owners REALLY want to win is the question?

I'm not writing this year off, but yet I am...
 
Hoping for a "built for the playoffs" type result.

Goaltending is certainly better which will help but system/team play has regressed to Babcock levels. The team is going to be harder on the puck in the playoffs and the hits will come but its all gonna come down to goaltending in the end. Tampa in the first round favors us as the team seems to have Vasy's number.
 
Berube has been the biggest disappointment so far this season. The team started playing his style early on then by December he gave up on it. For a coach whos calling card is accountability and tough hockey hes failed on both fronts. Might as well have kept Keefe.

This is my read as well. They got away from it and he never reigned it in.

What that shows me is, he lost the internal power struggle. Upper management (Shanny) lets the core do whatever they want and act how they want and protects them. They are the teams money makers and gets them into the playoffs.

These losers do not have it in them to do what is needed to win a cup. Plain to see.
 
I don’t buy any kind of a struggle. Just growing pain. The games are simply getting harder as we approach the end of the season. Like every other team they need to adapt and improve.
 

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