How Many Pts Does a Good 3rd Liner Score

[Oddbob]

Phillip Danault Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Your very definition of a good, even great 3rd liner that can play 2nd duties in a pinch but not any more than that

By today's offence though, Danault is a 2nd/3rd line guy depending on team. On Detroit he would be 2nd line, on TB/Col etc. he would be 3rd line. 40-50 pts is what 2nd liners get in today's game. Back in the 90s 60-70 pts was 2nd line material, but now that is easily 1st line.

 

[Oddbob]

25-40 PTS
With 45-50 pts career high

In today's game, no 3rd liner is putting up consistent 40 pt seasons. They don't get enough ice time and quality of linemates to make that happen. 40 pts is more of a one off for a 3rd liner, otherwise they move into 2nd line territory.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

30-40 (good) 3rd line

40-60 2nd line

60+ 1st line

 

[danyhabsfan]

Phillip Danault Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Your very definition of a good, even great 3rd liner that can play 2nd duties in a pinch but not any more than that

he's a 3rd line center in talent but played with our best wingers and 1st line ice time.

 

[bossram]

Anything above 40 points is legit top-six production.

If your 3rd liners are chipping in 30 points each, that is pretty good.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Around 40 points I'd say. Probably ~25 5v5 points plus say 15ish on special teams. What they score actually playing on the third line matters most, but points scored during special teams indirectly matters because a better third liner will earn those opportunities.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Ideally, 30+ points.

IMO, the difference between a defensively sound 3rd liner and a defensively sound guy who is no better than a 4th liner is that additional offensive punch the 3rd liner contributes. If he's *just* there for defense and adds very, very little offense then he's essentially a defensive minded 4th liner.

Having said that, not all teams have that luxury of having three 30+ point guys on their 3rd line, so a lot of teams are made up of maybe 1 or 2 "good" 3rd liners and a high-end 4th liner.

 

[Khelandros]

Are walking about 3rd line talent, or 3rd line due to players above them on the depth chart. They are two very different things. Tampas 3rd line is probably a second line on most teams. Patric Hornqvist was playing 3rd line with Pittsburgh, but he wasn't a third line talent.

 

[Habsrule]

I don’t like labelling line numbers because each team plays differently.

Some teams use their third line to shut down their opponents top players and have them in a defensive role. While some teams match top lines against each other and try to rely on depth scoring to win games.

Also it is not always easy to number each line. Take Montreal’s run for example, which line was what number? Danault, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi or Staal.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

if the player is pure offence, then 35-45 points, around 30-35 ES 5-10 PP points

otherwise, if he kills penalties, is just in general good defensively and takes draws at a good rate, I'd say around 30-35 points.

 

[rumrokh]

I don’t like labelling line numbers because each team plays differently.

Some teams use their third line to shut down their opponents top players and have them in a defensive role. While some teams match top lines against each other and try to rely on depth scoring to win games.

Also it is not always easy to number each line. Take Montreal’s run for example, which line was what number? Danault, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi or Staal.

Even strength ice time is a really good indicator. And no matter how one team deploys a guy, when players change teams, they regularly get very similar point totals and responsibilities. Discounting extreme bumps due to playing on a line with an elite player, there aren't players who only get 30 points because they're shutting down top lines, but would otherwise get 50.

 

[majormajor]

Phillip Danault Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Your very definition of a good, even great 3rd liner that can play 2nd duties in a pinch but not any more than that

By today's offence though, Danault is a 2nd/3rd line guy depending on team. On Detroit he would be 2nd line, on TB/Col etc. he would be 3rd line. 40-50 pts is what 2nd liners get in today's game. Back in the 90s 60-70 pts was 2nd line material, but now that is easily 1st line.

he's a 3rd line center in talent but played with our best wingers and 1st line ice time.

You're all way off.

Danault is 30th in 5v5 points over the last three years. There's 93 forwards on the topline at any given moment, and 186 in the top six, and Danault finished 30th. You should be able to figure it out from there.

This is a question about 5v5 line categories and people are getting confused because they're including PP points.

 

[danyhabsfan]

You're all way off.

Danault is 30th in 5v5 points over the last three years. There's 93 forwards on the topline at any given moment, and 186 in the top six, and Danault finished 30th. You should be able to figure it out from there.

This is a question about 5v5 line categories and people are getting confused because they're including PP points.

Thats my point

He's not a 3rd liner.

He's played on the 1st line and has 1st-2nd line production 5 vs 5.


I wouldnt use him as a comparable unless we're talking on a talent level only.

 

[Oddbob]

You're all way off.

Danault is 30th in 5v5 points over the last three years. There's 93 forwards on the topline at any given moment, and 186 in the top six, and Danault finished 30th. You should be able to figure it out from there.

This is a question about 5v5 line categories and people are getting confused because they're including PP points.

Not way off at all. What team is he a real 1st line player on? Also, what top team he is an actual 2nd liner on? TB he would be 3rd at best. You are just cherry picking 5 vs 5 stats, while ignoring that he isn't bringing much in the way of PP pts. If he is a true 1 like you are suggesting, that means he would be a priority for teams to put on their top PP lines.

 

[miscs75]

Whatever JG Pageau does.

 

[Arselona]

Samuel Pahlsson never scored 30 or more. He was a pretty good third liner at the height of his career.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

30-40 (good) 3rd line

40-60 2nd line

60+ 1st line

I tend to think like this. For a team to score 3 goals a game, or 246 per year, I suspect the goal totals ideally break out something like:

1st line - 75 (Ave 25 each, maybe 30-25-20)
2nd line - 60 (Ave 20 each, maybe 25-20-15))
3rd line - 45 (Ave 15 each, maybe 17-15-13)
4th line - 30 (Ave 10 each, maybe 12-10-8)
Defense - 30 (Ave 5 each)
Misc callups and rotational players - 6 total

Short version, even most top lines and second lines probably don't score to people's "average" expectations on many teams.

I wonder, is the idea of the third line checking unit really dead? I know the fourth line is still probably an energy line, instead of the traditional goon line, and there is little room for fighters who don't have at least some talent, but is the pure checking line really dead now?

 

[isles55]

Phillip Danault Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Your very definition of a good, even great 3rd liner that can play 2nd duties in a pinch but not any more than that

Danault is 49th in 5v5 pts/60 over the last three seasons; behind Sebastian Aho and tied with Travis Konecny and Mark Scheifele. He is also one of the best defensive players in the game.

Danault is far too good to be considered a 3rd line center.

 

[ScaredStreit]

50 points is a lot for a 3rd liner. 50 is 2nd liner territory.

 

[jetsforever]

30 or so probably, maybe a bit more if they can't play defence

 

[jetsforever]

Danault is 49th in 5v5 pts/60 over the last three seasons; behind Sebastian Aho and tied with Travis Konecny and Mark Scheifele. He is also one of the best defensive players in the game.

Danault is far too good to be considered a 3rd line center.

Seems like a pretty convoluted stat to cover up his 47 and 24 point seasons

 

[isles55]

Seems like a pretty convoluted stat to cover up his 47 and 24 point seasons

How so? Those are two of the seasons I'm referencing.

 

[ottawah]

Always people think way to high.

2019, the last full season. Your 187th scoring forward is the "top" tier, 280th is the bottom tier. Obviously some teams are better than that, some worse, but it gives you an idea of the league average. Thats a range of 21-33 points. Now of course some players are injured, but thats always the case and the post did not really specify per 80.

Take Tampa that year. 7-9 scoring forwards were 32 to 40. Edmonton was 11 - 18 points ...

So injuries aside, roughly 10 to 40 points is the spread. It does not mean these players do not have value, but scoring points is pretty tough with the type of minutes these players get.

 

[T REX]

Yanni freaking Gourde.

It's not just about scoring but the other things they do.

 

[majormajor]

Seems like a pretty convoluted stat to cover up his 47 and 24 point seasons

5v5 points is convoluted in a question about 5v5 lines? It's actually more appropriate.