How Many Points Would Gretzky Have In Today's Game?

[yababy]

Oh my God,just no.

And i say that as a Nova Scotian who loves Crosby to death but Mario has him beat on skill.

And as an Oilers fan I say Mario had Gretzky beat on skill too. He didn't have Wayne's brain, teammates or durability

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

And as an Oilers fan I say Mario had Gretzky beat on skill too. He didn't have Wayne's brain, teammates or durability

I agree to a certain extent but Mario got to play with 2 wingers that could play hockey. Gretzky only got to play with one as his other wingers were always Semenko and McSorley.

 

[TheBaxMan*]

What I'm confused about is.. how would Gretzky ever score that many points if he wouldn't be on the ice all the time?

If Gretzky played 35 minutes a game, he would play a total of 2870 minutes a season.

Currently, Crosby and McDavid play around 1700 minutes a season.

2870 - 1700 = 1170
1700 / 82 = 20.73 minutes a game
1170 / 20.73 = 56.4
82 + 56 = 138

Crosby and McDavid need to play ~138 games in order to play as much as Gretzky did in one of his best seasons. Wouldn't Crosby and McDavid's numbers sky rocket if they played that many minutes?

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

You said he lit those goalies up. It seems like he didn't.

Also, his goal scoring dropped off more noticably than many other all-time greats. Likely due to advancements in goaltending, and he wasn't able to adjust as well as others.

Your "advancements in goalies" holds no water. Forget goals, he had 559 points in his last 443 games.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Your "advancements in goalies" holds no water. Forget goals, he had 559 points in his last 443 games.

Your post literally said 99 was a sniper so better goalies wouldn't affect him. I provided numbers contradicting that assertion. You now say "forget goals," so it looks like you took the L here.

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

What I'm confused about is.. how would Gretzky ever score that many points if he wouldn't be on the ice all the time?

If Gretzky played 35 minutes a game, he would play a total of 2870 minutes a season.

Currently, Crosby and McDavid play around 1700 minutes a season.

2870 - 1700 = 1170
1700 / 82 = 20.73 minutes a game
1170 / 20.73 = 56.4
82 + 56 = 138

Crosby and McDavid need to play ~138 games in order to play as much as Gretzky did in one of his best seasons. Wouldn't Crosby and McDavid's numbers sky rocket if they played that many minutes?

Whoa whoa whoa.

Where does it say anywhere that Gretzky played 35 minutes a game? Are you guys nuts? Do you think he was superman?

I think Crosby is on the ice a lot. You could compare Gretzky ice time to Crosby's ice time.

35 minutes a game?
He'd be the most fit person on the planet.

OMG, I can't stop laughing. Oh my side....

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

Your post literally said 99 was a sniper so better goalies wouldn't affect him. I provided numbers contradicting that assertion. You now say "forget goals," so it looks like you took the L here.

Gretzky scored 92 goals in a season. He scored in the 80's once and in the 70's twice. Do you not call that a sniper?

[mod] Gretzky put up 31 points on 57 shots against Brodeur.....who in my opinion is the greatest goalie that ever lived.

You're trying to make it sound like Gretzky was irrelevant in his last seasons in the NHL. Nice try though.

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

Your post literally said 99 was a sniper so better goalies wouldn't affect him. I provided numbers contradicting that assertion. You now say "forget goals," so it looks like you took the L here.

No pal, I am taking the clear win here. In Brodeurs rookie season, at the age of 33 Gretzky put up 38 goals. This year only 5 players put up more than 38 goals with the most being 44.

We were talking about Brodeur. Would you not call 38 goals being a sniper at 33 years age no less?

Again, 559 points in 443 games in his last 7 years.

 

[Laineux]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Where does it say anywhere that Gretzky played 35 minutes a game? Are you guys nuts? Do you think he was superman?

I think Crosby is on the ice a lot. You could compare Gretzky ice time to Crosby's ice time.

35 minutes a game?
He'd be the most fit person on the planet.

OMG, I can't stop laughing. Oh my side....

Kurri says that he usually played 32-38 minutes. You can ask another Finnish poster or just google translate that yourself. Obviously that would be a superhuman feat in today's game, just reinforces the point how different the game is today.

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

[mod] Gretzky was a sniper during his career. You can't say he wasn't a sniper because he ended his career with less goals. Ask anyone and they would tell you he was a sniper.

But the fact still remains you said he wasn't lighting everyone up at that point, which is purely wrong. He scored 559 points before retiring since Brodeur joined the league in 443 games. How is that not lighting goalies up? You do know an assist is as valuable as a goal right? And he was only playing with one other forward because the other forward was always a goon.

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

Kurri says that he usually played 32-38 minutes. You can ask another Finnish poster or just google translate that yourself. Obviously that would be a superhuman feat in today's game, just reinforces the point how different the game is today.

Ok. Answer me this....how the hell would Kurri know? There was no TOI back then. Did he just guess? Yes he did. Did you know that he was drafted to Jokerit out of high school in grade 10?

Perhaps Kurri had a stop watch everytime Gretzky went on the ice?

Forgive the sarcasm but Kurri is not a good resource when asking how much TOI Gretzky had and I don't get why you would think that was a good point to use "because Kurri said so".

I have first hand knowledge of Gretzky's ice time and it was comparable to todays stars. I actually watched him play where most of the guys on this board weren't even born yet.

And to further strengthen my point Messier was the oilers second line centre. He also ate up a huge chunk of ice time in all situations.

And to strenthen my point even more, 38 minutes is almost 2 complete periods of being on the ice every minute. Do you honestly think that is realistic, especially with the Oilers second and 3rd lines being as good as they were?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Kurri says that he usually played 32-38 minutes.

I doubt that very much.

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

I doubt that very much.

Exactly. He would have to be superhuman.

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

Kurri says that he usually played 32-38 minutes. You can ask another Finnish poster or just google translate that yourself. Obviously that would be a superhuman feat in today's game, just reinforces the point how different the game is today.

Just to give you a reference, at 38 minutes a game, that translates to 941 games playing every minute and playing for 11.5 consective 82 games per year playing every minute.

Now, does that sound reasonable to you? And thats not even counting his playoff games.

 

[jj cale]

And as an Oilers fan I say Mario had Gretzky beat on skill too. He didn't have Wayne's brain, teammates or durability

Agreed, more overall offensive gifts and of course the size.


wayne had him beat on brains but just by a shade, mario had an incredible mind for the game.

 

[lakai17]

and how many would he have with a Semenko today?

 

[TheBaxMan*]

Just to give you a reference, at 38 minutes a game, that translates to 941 games playing every minute and playing for 11.5 consective 82 games per year playing every minute.

Now, does that sound reasonable to you? And thats not even counting his playoff games.

Even then, Gretzky in his last season was playing more than Crosby did this year.

Guys like Jagr were playing 26 minutes a game in the late 90s, so I don't think it is farfetched to see Gretzky playing 30+ minutes in his prime days.

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

and how many would he have with a Semenko today?

...or a McSorley.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Gretzky and Lemieux defined eras. If they were entering the league today they would change the way the game is played, instantly.

Forget about systematic hockey, short shifts and 200-foot centers.

If these two were around, you would either need to defend, defend, defend all night, or try to score more than them as a team.

The game, as we know it now, would cease to exist.

 

[TheBaxMan*]

Ok. Answer me this....how the hell would Kurri know? There was no TOI back then.

I have first hand knowledge of Gretzky's ice time and it was comparable to todays stars.

If you know because of first hand knowledge, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume Kurri does too because he has more first hand knowledge?

 

[TheBaxMan*]

You said this "There is a lot wrong in your post, but I'll focus on this. After Hasek and Brodeur became starting goalies in the NHL, Gretzky averaged 24 goals per 82 games. He wasn't lighting anyone up at that point."

I said that math was wrong. He played an average of 63 games in his last 7 seasons. He scored 129 goals. That is an average of 18 goals per season, not 24...since Brodeurs rookie season.

Thats less than what you said and we went from there with you using weird math.

I will make this very clear for you. Gretzky was a sniper during his career. You can't say he wasn't a sniper because he ended his career with less goals. Ask anyone and they would tell you he was a sniper.

But the fact still remains you said he wasn't lighting everyone up at that point, which is purely wrong. He scored 559 points before retiring since Brodeur joined the league in 443 games. How is that not lighting goalies up? You do know an assist is as valuable as a goal right? And he was only playing with one other forward because the other forward was always a goon.

You can't say "forget goals" when you are trying to argue that a player was good at scoring goals.

You can score a ton of points without being good at scoring goals though. Look at Joe Thornton, would you argue he was a sniper when he scored 125 points because a goal is as valuable as an assist?

Makes no sense.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Obviously Wayne is the greatest ever.

How would he do in a season of today's game?

Not as much as people think, if he is going to get the same treatment stars get now, probably be done by a concussion or something like that. He wouldn't have a body guard as the rules are different now.

If anyone, a guy like Lemieux would destroy right now.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Do people really think Wayne regularly played 32-38 minutes a game? I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you guys. Wayne had good stamina but was not Superman. As a King I would guestimate 23-25 minutes a game. As a Ranger 21-22 minutes a game. If Wayne played 38 minutes a game and Mess played 22 minutes a game what did they do with their 3rd and 4th lines!

 

[TMLFOREVER**]

Even then, Gretzky in his last season was playing more than Crosby did this year.

Guys like Jagr were playing 26 minutes a game in the late 90s, so I don't think it is farfetched to see Gretzky playing 30+ minutes in his prime days.

I think it is farfetched. Thats a huge chunk of minutes. The top D men of the day in the late 90's and early 2000's rarely played 30 minutes as a matter of fact, that only ever happened a few times and its much harder for a forward to do that than a D man.

I, like most that are over 35 years old, watched him play and IMO, he played about the same as todays stars. You have to remember, the Oilers were 4 lines deep with 3 of those lines being scoring lines. You can go right down the roster on forwards alone. Add up their points and ask how they got them if Gretzky played even 30 minutes a game...which he didn't. In the 1985-86 season they had Guys like Kurri(68 goals 63 assists, Anderson (54 goals 48 assists), Messier(35 goals 49 assists), Huddy (41 points) Hunter (15 goals 22 assists) Krushelniski (16 goals 26 assists), 4th line winger Lumley (11 goals 9 assists), Mactavish, who was the 3rd line centre with 23 goals and 24 assists. McCLellend 4th line centre with 11 goals 25 assists, Napier with 24 goals and 32 assists. he was a 3rd line winger. Raimo Summanen with 19 goals and 29 assists.

And that is just the big scoring players. If Gretzky ate up anything over 28 minutes (for arguments sake) then you have to subtract some of the other players totals.

The Oilers played 4 solid lines. It is literally impossible for Gretzky to play 32 to 38 minutes and yet all those other players getting all those points. Its addition by subtraction. Its a universal law.

The math doesn't work. Is it possible for Gretzky to have played 38 minutes in one game, sure, but not likely. I just listed the forwards. There is a total of 180 minutes or less (pk) available for fowards during a game. If you give Gretzky 38 of it, then that leaves 142 minutes left to dive up in 11 other forwards not including the spare. Thats 11 minutes each. If you go on the low end of what Kurri said, and thats Gretzky played 32 minutes, that still only averages 12.9 minutes for the other 11 players.

But then the math gets even more fun. Kurri played on Gretzky's line. That equals 64 to 76 minutes of 180 forward minutes. Messier played heavy minutes. I would say 22 to 25 per game.

I will use Kurri's low end of the model.

Kurri-32 minutes
Gretzky-32 minutes
Messier-25 minutes (just a guess, but I am sure pretty accurate.

Total 89 minutes of a possible 180 forward minutes. That leaves 91 minutes for the other 9 players to divide amongst themselves, or 10.1 minutes of TOI per game. So on the low end of 32 minutes in Kurris model, are people suggesting that Anderson could score 54 goals in 10 minutes of ice time per game? mac and McC getting 25 and McC getting 11?

Come on people, is it more like that Kurri is out to lunch?

 

[TheBaxMan*]

Even if Gretzky were playing around 25 minutes a game, guys like Crosby would need to play 100 or so games to even match the total ice time played.

At his best, Gretzky would score a point roughly every 9.5 minutes of ice-time. Gretzky was playing at least 410 minutes more than Crosby, so that's a rough deduction of 43 points. Let's say that 215 point season is like a 170-175 point season in terms of normal TOI.

Now factor in the tougher matchups (not playing tons of ice-time against the worst pairings), better goalies, better defenses, better competition, and Gretzky would never be able to score absurdly high numbers.

The best players today would definitely be scoring over 120 points if they played as much as Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, etc. were playing.

If everything were adjusted correctly, I think you would find that Gretzky, Crosby, Lemieux, etc. would be very close at the top of the best scoring seasons ever.