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How Many ECHL Teams are on Their Deathbeds?

Centrum Hockey said:
Aeg didn’t need convincing to sell the monarchs they where trying to sell them as quickly as possible. They obviously didn’t look into if cheek and his buddy’s had any clue on how to run a team.
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that's debatable.....why did the Kings, who are AEG, not look elsewhere once they sold the business end but they continued to be the affiliate.

you keep forgetting...Manchester would've not been transferred had AEG not started Ontario when the whole Pacific Division was approved, and is that the way you want the market remembered as just winning the championship and then finding out this was in the process.
 
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Royalsflagrunner77 said:
Put it this way . Reading's attendance for the home opener last year was like 2500 this year it was closer to 4k . its showing increase over last year . On a personal note the customer service and team transparency has been way better then the past 5 years. Also the on ice product is way better .
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I think the BCCCA co-owning the team with SMG is arguably the only path for hockey to viably survive and putter along in Reading short of having someone who is all in on hockey (with only one team) and is willing to operate the team as a loss leader and on civic kindness.

At least the BCCCA realizes that 36 dates being occupied with something is better than having nothing at all and is going to do more to show customer-centricness.
 
Atlantian said:
According to this link, the official numbers (usually inflated) for six different teams: Greenville, Maine, Reading, Brampton, Wheeling, and Norfolk are below 3000 a night so far this season, with Wheeling below 2000. Normally I would say the sustainability number is between 3.5-4K per night. Other than Wheeling who isn’t going anywhere, how long can these other teams be sustainable? Is Portland gonna end up like Manchester?
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Maine is averaging about the same number of fans as last season. IMO, it's probably a bit early to start throwing dirt on the Mariners. I think Norfolk's numbers are a bit of a red flag...and this is the third season of their attendance being under 3k if current trends hold.
 
Andre Poodle Lussier said:
I think the BCCCA co-owning the team with SMG is arguably the only path for hockey to viably survive and putter along in Reading short of having someone who is all in on hockey (with only one team) and is willing to operate the team as a loss leader and on civic kindness.

At least the BCCCA realizes that 36 dates being occupied with something is better than having nothing at all and is going to do more to show customer-centricness.
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BCCA has sole ownership of the Royals now . The tax payers are floating the bill now .
 
Andre Poodle Lussier said:
Maine is averaging about the same number of fans as last season. IMO, it's probably a bit early to start throwing dirt on the Mariners. I think Norfolk's numbers are a bit of a red flag...and this is the third season of their attendance being under 3k if current trends hold.
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High school football is stupid popular in Hampton Roads so the Ads have historically seen an attendance rebound after that wraps up (the playoffs started this week and go for four more weeks). Once January hits look for attendance to tick up. It would not hurt if the team was better. The new ownership group has not sorted out a pretty bad on-ice product.
 
Andre Poodle Lussier said:
Maine is averaging about the same number of fans as last season. IMO, it's probably a bit early to start throwing dirt on the Mariners. I think Norfolk's numbers are a bit of a red flag...and this is the third season of their attendance being under 3k if current trends hold.
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Last season Maine averaged 2,998...so far this season they're at 2,987. They are 77 fans behind last season's pace. So yeah, it's way too early.
 
HRAds said:
High school football is stupid popular in Hampton Roads so the Ads have historically seen an attendance rebound after that wraps up (the playoffs started this week and go for four more weeks). Once January hits look for attendance to tick up. It would not hurt if the team was better. The new ownership group has not sorted out a pretty bad on-ice product.
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Lack of affiliation and playing in a very old venue also hurt, although in the ECHL, affiliation is irrelevant for anything other than PR and game night promos to get more people to show up.

To be honest, I would likely see the three most vulnerable teams in the league as follows: Brampton, Norfolk, and Wheeling. Wheeling is always going to stay in the league thanks to the city taking pride in the team and the organization providing jobs in the market, but I do feel like a change in city management may be all it takes. The other two, however, are dependent upon local support, and especially in Brampton's case where the town has never supported hockey at any level in spite of being part of the GTA (the OHL Battalion moved and the OJHL teams merged then folded), it's not a matter of "if" but "when".
 
JDogindy said:
Lack of affiliation and playing in a very old venue also hurt, although in the ECHL, affiliation is irrelevant for anything other than PR and game night promos to get more people to show up.

To be honest, I would likely see the three most vulnerable teams in the league as follows: Brampton, Norfolk, and Wheeling. Wheeling is always going to stay in the league thanks to the city taking pride in the team and the organization providing jobs in the market, but I do feel like a change in city management may be all it takes. The other two, however, are dependent upon local support, and especially in Brampton's case where the town has never supported hockey at any level in spite of being part of the GTA (the OHL Battalion moved and the OJHL teams merged then folded), it's not a matter of "if" but "when".
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Scope is fine. Yes, it's old but they have kept it up to date with fresh paint, seats, lighting, sounds system and a new scoreboard. Really it is not a bad place to watch a game. The Ads biggest problem is digging out from the crappy way the forced AHL to ECHL move went down and the subsequent bad teams and worse ownership under Mango Media. There is new ownership in place now that actually played for the original ECHL Hampton Roads Admirals. That is a good thing but I think they are relying too much on their successful Jr. hockey program in Chesapeake to translate that success to the ECHL. They need to get an affiliation if for nothing else a few players. Getting the Caps affiliation would help a great deal. Lowering ticket prices would help as well. $32 for a ticket at center ice is insanity for the ECHL, that same seat in the AHL would have been $18.50. I had season tickets from 1990-2015. The last season we were in the AHL my season tickets were $600, those same seats today are $900. Initially, the season tickets dropped in price a little to compensate for the fewer number of games played but then prices when up under Mango. Season ticket sales had started this season before the current owners had taken possession of the team so it will be interesting to see that happen with respect to prices next season.
 
HRAds said:
Scope is fine. Yes, it's old but they have kept it up to date with fresh paint, seats, lighting, sounds system and a new scoreboard. Really it is not a bad place to watch a game. The Ads biggest problem is digging out from the crappy way the forced AHL to ECHL move went down and the subsequent bad teams and worse ownership under Mango Media. There is new ownership in place now that actually played for the original ECHL Hampton Roads Admirals. That is a good thing but I think they are relying too much on their successful Jr. hockey program in Chesapeake to translate that success to the ECHL. They need to get an affiliation if for nothing else a few players. Getting the Caps affiliation would help a great deal. Lowering ticket prices would help as well. $32 for a ticket at center ice is insanity for the ECHL, that same seat in the AHL would have been $18.50. I had season tickets from 1990-2015. The last season we were in the AHL my season tickets were $600, those same seats today are $900. Initially, the season tickets dropped in price a little to compensate for the fewer number of games played but then prices when up under Mango. Season ticket sales had started this season before the current owners had taken possession of the team so it will be interesting to see that happen with respect to prices next season.
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South Carolina isn't likely to let the Capitals leave
 
Andre Poodle Lussier said:
Maine is averaging about the same number of fans as last season. IMO, it's probably a bit early to start throwing dirt on the Mariners. I think Norfolk's numbers are a bit of a red flag...and this is the third season of their attendance being under 3k if current trends hold.
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Maine seems to be doing a lot better with the mariners than the last few years of the pirates. They have people in charge who put Effort into the Product/Experience now opposed to someone like Brian Petrovek
 
Centrum Hockey said:
Maine seems to be doing a lot better with the mariners than the last few years of the pirates. They have people in charge who put Effort into the Product/Experience now opposed to someone like Brian Petrovek
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that's false, Centrum:

Spectra was the one who brought hockey here to start with.....the arena is modeled after the Spectrum, who also hosted Lehigh Valley at the tail end of that building.... it has nothing to do with Petrovek.... Petrovek was brought in by the League as the franchise could've been relocated at any point until it was in 2015..... remember, Washington was the longest serving affiliate in Portland history 12 years most average 5-8 years in our market..... the other piece of that was finally dealing with the arena operator, not a trustee board.... no franchise is outright owned until Spectra bought it.... they realized what they did when they sold the franchise outright in 1982-83 to the Devils, and tried to recreate that with the current Lehigh Valley team in the final years in NE Philly... that's why Spectra runs the PPL Center, even though they no longer own the Phantoms, but simply are the affiliate.... that's why they also have distanced themselves with Reading, being their affiliate, not Portland.
 
210 said:
You say that like an ECHL team has any choice in the matter. If Washington/Hershey wants to move their affiliation there's nothing the Stingrays can do about it.
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the point is, Darryl, could Washington consider Worcester, instead of the Islanders, especially if the Islanders ditch Bridgeport at some future point in time
 
CHRDANHUTCH said:
the point is, Darryl, could Washington consider Worcester, instead of the Islanders, especially if the Islanders ditch Bridgeport at some future point in time
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Of course they could. But to your original point, should the Islanders decide to not affiliate with Worcester there's nothing that the Railers can do about it.
 
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monarchsfan987 said:
wheelings attendance is reported on hockeydb at 2015 how much longer is this going to last
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As long as the combination of ticket sales, parking and concessions is able to offset the costs enough to satisfy the entity that owns the team and the arena. I believe the Nailers, like the Royals, are currently owned by the same entity that owns/operates the building.
 
monarchsfan987 said:
wheelings attendance is reported on hockeydb at 2015 how much longer is this going to last
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The Wheeling Nailers are the sports epitome of the popular trope whose origins have been attributed to Mark Twain: “The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated.”
 
royals119 said:
As long as the combination of ticket sales, parking and concessions is able to offset the costs enough to satisfy the entity that owns the team and the arena. I believe the Nailers, like the Royals, are currently owned by the same entity that owns/operates the building.
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Wheeling Nailers and WesBanco Arena are under separate ownership. Wheeling Nailers are owned by a consortium of the local youth hockey association and the area's economic development authority. WesBanco is owned by the municipal auditorium board. The Nailers aren't doing well on paper, but they would have to do far worse to be in real trouble.
 
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PCSPounder said:
It'd be more interesting to compare Wheeling's costs to everyone else. The Central is pretty much a bus division, correct?
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Pretty much, and Wheeling typically plays mostly within their division, plus Reading (which is a five hour bus trip) but they did just play a weekend series in Rapid City.
 
monarchsfan987 said:
Mariners are right now averaging roughly 2600. I know Comcast who owns them is pretty big but what the future like for them Maine Mariners [ECHL] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
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It is tough to tell with teams in their second year. Even Newfoundland is struggling with accepting the drop in hockey, and they won the championship in their first year. Maine can't be written off only partway through their second year, but barely being above Brampton is not a good look.
 
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