How has Holloway looked so far?

[Klank Loves You]

Don't get me wrong. If Kyrou's motor was higher, he'd be a better player. Buy that's like telling Walker that he would be a better player if he was 6 inches taller. Kyrou was a 2nd round draft pick, but the critics here are treating like he was a top 5 pick.

Kyrou is an easy player to criticize. Butt loads of flashy talent, but doesn't have that drive that makes 4th liners so beloved by this fan base. It's easy to say "try harder", but you can't change that without psychedelic mushrooms, or a near death experience. You can nurture him. Encourage him, and put him in a place where personal growth is a focused goal. But that takes time, and there is only so much that can help.

But the funniest f***ing thing, is Kyrou has clearly stepped up his D game this year. Using his speed to back check and break up odd man rushes. But that's still not enough for some.

Every player deserves criticism. No one in competition is above that. But there are more than a few here that would rather see him crash and burn, than see how his positives outweigh the negatives.

Also. Holloway is excellent.

 

[Xerloris]

I don’t think you become a professional athlete by not playing your best. I think Kyrou is who he is at this point. A very good 35g player. He’s improved his overall game each year and could continue to slightly improve.

I know what could help Kyrou because it's helped many other athletes through the years. cocaine.

 

[Drubilly]

Don't get me wrong. If Kyrou's motor was higher, he'd be a better player. Buy that's like telling Walker that he would be a better player if he was 6 inches taller. Kyrou was a 2nd round draft pick, but the critics here are treating like he was a top 5 pick.

Kyrou is an easy player to criticize. Butt loads of flashy talent, but doesn't have that drive that makes 4th liners so beloved by this fan base. It's easy to say "try harder", but you can't change that without psychedelic mushrooms, or a near death experience. You can nurture him. Encourage him, and put him in a place where personal growth is a focused goal. But that takes time, and there is only so much that can help.

But the funniest f***ing thing, is Kyrou has clearly stepped up his D game this year. Using his speed to back check and break up odd man rushes. But that's still not enough for some.

Every player deserves criticism. No one in competition is above that. But there are more than a few here that would rather see him crash and burn, than see how his positives outweigh the negatives.

Also. Holloway is excellent.

I like magic chocolate

 

[Reality Czech]

The player you guys want Kyrou to be is a 13 million dollar player. I’m completely happy with 35g Kyrou at 8 million, with 40g potential.

Are you happy with 28 goal, 68 point Kyrou because that's the pace he's on right now. Not saying it's bad but it's not 35-40 goals and PPG. If he realizes the potential you're talking about then it's a different story.

There's only 1 $13 million player right now and even $11 million players like Marner, Pasta, Nylander and Panarin put up 90-100 or more points every year. Kyrou isn't close to that level, although at $8.1 million I wouldn't expect him to be. In his price range of +/- $8 million there are quite a few young players players out performing him (Hughes, Tkachuks, Stutzle, Thomas, Bratt, Suzuki) and a smaller group of guys that are performing worse (Jarvis, Hintz and Robertson are off to slow starts this year). There are plenty of overpaid veterans at that price tag that aren't living up to their deals, however.

I could see an argument that Kyrou is slightly overpaid based on current production more than he's underpaid, but the salary is probably close to fair. I doubt he'll ever be seen as a bargain like Thomas already is, though. When he's on, he's great. I'd just like to see that top form a little more often.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't like this logic. It's like playing down to an inferior opponent.

Maybe he thinks the same way as you. "If I got paid 13M, then I'd play better. But I'm getting paid only 8.5M, so you get an 8.5M player.

That's not a winning proposition.


I'm not entertaining someone who posts absolutely nothing, but dismissive, contrarian refutations. You got nothin', bro.

Carry on.

"I'll take the time to respond to you and trash you. But I won't have a discussion cause, cause...umm..you ummm offer nothing and only have dismissive refutations. So umm like, I'm going to offer nothing when I dismissively refute your position. So yeah, take that. "

I'm wounded. Seriously, you really hurt me with that.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

"I'll take the time to respond to you and trash you. But I won't have a discussion cause, cause...umm..you ummm offer nothing and only have dismissive refutations. So umm like, I'm going to offer nothing when I dismissively refute your position. So yeah, take that. "

I'm wounded. Seriously, you really hurt me with that.

Blah blah blah

Just keep ignoring me. I won’t ignore you.

I don’t think you become a professional athlete by not playing your best. I think Kyrou is who he is at this point. A very good 35g player. He’s improved his overall game each year and could continue to slightly improve.

That’s all totally fair. As aforementioned, I am deeply conflicted when it comes to Kyrou.

I see all sides on this as he is an adverbially adjectivial player.

 

[Mike Liut]

Are you happy with 28 goal, 68 point Kyrou because that's the pace he's on right now. Not saying it's bad but it's not 35-40 goals and PPG. If he realizes the potential you're talking about then it's a different story.

There's only 1 $13 million player right now and even $11 million players like Marner, Pasta, Nylander and Panarin put up 90-100 or more points every year. Kyrou isn't close to that level, although at $8.1 million I wouldn't expect him to be. In his price range of +/- $8 million there are quite a few young players players out performing him (Hughes, Tkachuks, Stutzle, Thomas, Bratt, Suzuki) and a smaller group of guys that are performing worse (Jarvis, Hintz and Robertson are off to slow starts this year). There are plenty of overpaid veterans at that price tag that aren't living up to their deals, however.

I could see an argument that Kyrou is slightly overpaid based on current production more than he's underpaid, but the salary is probably close to fair. I doubt he'll ever be seen as a bargain like Thomas already is, though. When he's on, he's great. I'd just like to see that top form a little more often.

I think he’ll end up with 35g

 

[BrokenFace]

Great quote from Jeff Marek re: the offer sheet twins:

Marek's new podcast, The Sheet, has been great so far, for what it's worth. He had Shatty on already since he retired, and he actually talks about what's going on around the whole league.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

There are currently 25 active Forwards in the NHL who makes between 7.5M and 8.5M. Two of those players have Missed more than 10 games. Those two are Thomas and JT Miller. So they are unfairly ranked at 15 and 21 in points (Respectfully) this season IMO.

Kyrou is tied for 10th highest paid player in that group.
In Points he is Tied for 9th out of 25
In Goals he is Tied for 11th out of 25.
In Assists he is Tied for 10th out of 25

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Marek's new podcast, The Sheet, has been great so far, for what it's worth. He had Shatty on already since he retired, and he actually talks about what's going on around the whole league.

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know he had a pod.

There are currently 25 active Forwards in the NHL who makes between 7.5M and 8.5M. Two of those players have Missed more than 10 games. Those two are Thomas and JT Miller. So they are unfairly ranked at 15 and 21 in points (Respectfully) this season IMO.

Kyrou is tied for 10th highest paid player in that group.
In Points he is Tied for 9th out of 25
In Goals he is Tied for 11th out of 25.
In Assists he is Tied for 10th out of 25

Yeah but...

 

[Reality Czech]

There are currently 25 active Forwards in the NHL who makes between 7.5M and 8.5M. Two of those players have Missed more than 10 games. Those two are Thomas and JT Miller. So they are unfairly ranked at 15 and 21 in points (Respectfully) this season IMO.

Kyrou is tied for 10th highest paid player in that group.
In Points he is Tied for 9th out of 25
In Goals he is Tied for 11th out of 25.
In Assists he is Tied for 10th out of 25

I'm not going to check your math, but it sounds about right. I wasn't comparing Kyrou to veterans who are on the back end of their career like Stamkos, Hertl and Couturier because those guys were paid for past performance (and certainly overpaid now). Also, considering Thomas and Miller are PPG while missing time, it's misleading to rank them below Kyrou for this purpose. Both are outperforming Kyrou relative to their salary along with the guys I listed in the previous post.

When you look at players in Kyrou's age group and salary, he's probably performing slightly below average in that group. He's not doing that bad, but I can't see an argument that he's exceeding expectations either. It's fair at best and slightly overpaid at worst. My point is simply that it's not unreasonable to expect a little bit more out of him based on his age and what he's getting paid.

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm not going to check your math, but it sounds about right. I wasn't comparing Kyrou to veterans who are on the back end of their career like Stamkos, Hertl and Couturier because those guys were paid for past performance (and certainly overpaid now). Also, considering Thomas and Miller are PPG while missing time, it's misleading to rank them below Kyrou for this purpose. Both are outperforming Kyrou relative to their salary along with the guys I listed in the previous post.

When you look at players in Kyrou's age group and salary, he's probably performing slightly below average in that group. He's not doing that bad, but I can't see an argument that he's exceeding expectations either. It's fair at best and slightly overpaid at worst. My point is simply that it's not unreasonable to expect a little bit more out of him based on his age and what he's getting paid.

Except the #s @Linkens Mastery posted show he's not underperforming relative to salary. He is right in line with what the guys you named are doing relative to pay. Without looking, I'd bet he's doing it with the least help. His most common linemate, Buchnevich, has 6 less points and makes the same amount (nobody harps on Buch's untapped potential).

Kyrou leads the team in points by 5. Your boy Tkachuk is 3rd on his team in points. He is stapled to the hip with Stutzle who drives that offense. Kyrou has been having to drive the bus all year with Thonas hurt and Buch uncomfortable at C. A rising tide lifts all boats. Our tide has been one of the lowest in the league all year because of everyone else. And that effects Kyrou's production through no fault if his.

How can the guy that leads the team by 25% more points than the next closest teammate get so much flack relative to the rest if the team for not producing? Your boy Schenn makes 80% of Kyrous salary but is scoring 60% as many points. Yet you bristle anytime he gets criticized. It's ridiculous.

 

[Celtic Note]

So about Holloway in the Holloway thread…

 

[Majorityof1]

So about Holloway in the Holloway thread…

Not much left to say. He's great and everyone is stoked we got him and how he's s played. Anything you'd specifically like to discuss?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

So about Holloway in the Holloway thread…

HOLLOWAY!!!!!

 

[Celtic Note]

Not much left to say. He's great and everyone is stoked we got him and how he's s played. Anything you'd specifically like to discuss?

No. He has looked good. Just trying to refocus the discussion.

 

[Robb_K]

Holloway came down to Earth vs. The Sharks, from his looking like a budding superstar over the 3 previous games. But he still played well. He seems to be on a very promising upward track. Broberg seems to be getting a little more consistent after his sluggish return from his injury-forced layoff. He seemds to be slowly getting his timing back.

 

[BlueSeal]

Don't get me wrong. If Kyrou's motor was higher, he'd be a better player. Buy that's like telling Walker that he would be a better player if he was 6 inches taller. Kyrou was a 2nd round draft pick, but the critics here are treating like he was a top 5 pick.

Kyrou is an easy player to criticize. Butt loads of flashy talent, but doesn't have that drive that makes 4th liners so beloved by this fan base. It's easy to say "try harder", but you can't change that without psychedelic mushrooms, or a near death experience. You can nurture him. Encourage him, and put him in a place where personal growth is a focused goal. But that takes time, and there is only so much that can help.

But the funniest f***ing thing, is Kyrou has clearly stepped up his D game this year. Using his speed to back check and break up odd man rushes. But that's still not enough for some.

Every player deserves criticism. No one in competition is above that. But there are more than a few here that would rather see him crash and burn, than see how his positives outweigh the negatives.

Also. Holloway is excellent.

Absolutely gorgeous, beautiful post, perfect in every way. Love it!

 

[Xerloris]

Except the #s @Linkens Mastery posted show he's not underperforming relative to salary. He is right in line with what the guys you named are doing relative to pay. Without looking, I'd bet he's doing it with the least help. His most common linemate, Buchnevich, has 6 less points and makes the same amount (nobody harps on Buch's untapped potential).

Kyrou leads the team in points by 5. Your boy Tkachuk is 3rd on his team in points. He is stapled to the hip with Stutzle who drives that offense. Kyrou has been having to drive the bus all year with Thonas hurt and Buch uncomfortable at C. A rising tide lifts all boats. Our tide has been one of the lowest in the league all year because of everyone else. And that effects Kyrou's production through no fault if his.

How can the guy that leads the team by 25% more points than the next closest teammate get so much flack relative to the rest if the team for not producing? Your boy Schenn makes 80% of Kyrous salary but is scoring 60% as many points. Yet you bristle anytime he gets criticized. It's ridiculous.

I think the criticism of Kyrou is because he has the potential to do so much more but he doesn't. it's like he's coasting and still putting up those numbers but if he really had the intensity of walker or Holloway then he would be blowing his current numbers away.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I think the criticism of Kyrou is because he has the potential to do so much more but he doesn't. it's like he's coasting and still putting up those numbers but if he really had the intensity of walker or Holloway then he would be blowing his current numbers away.

I don’t understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.

 

[MissouriMook]

I think the criticism of Kyrou is because he has the potential to do so much more but he doesn't. it's like he's coasting and still putting up those numbers but if he really had the intensity of walker or Holloway then he would be blowing his current numbers away.

I don’t understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.

I don’t necessarily agree. I think it’s a fallacy that there is only one way to approach the game. Back in the 80s and 90s, you had guys like Bobby Bassen who skated around like a wrecking ball on ice and guys like Gretzky and Lemieux who slowed the game down and let the game come to them. Kyrou seems more like the latter (without the generational talent) and I feel like it is a bit misguided to think that “playing harder” would improve his results. I think he just needs to stay true to himself and learn to make better decisions. Chaos and reckless abandon aren’t always the answer.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I don’t necessarily agree. I think it’s a fallacy that there is only one way to approach the game. Back in the 80s and 90s, you had guys like Bobby Bassen who skated around like a wrecking ball on ice and guys like Gretzky and Lemieux who slowed the game down and let the game come to them. Kyrou seems more like the latter (without the generational talent) and I feel like it is a bit misguided to think that “playing harder” would improve his results. I think he just needs to stay true to himself and learn to make better decisions. Chaos and reckless abandon aren’t always the answer.

Totally fair assessment and push back.

 

[Celtic Note]

I think the criticism of Kyrou is because he has the potential to do so much more but he doesn't. it's like he's coasting and still putting up those numbers but if he really had the intensity of walker or Holloway then he would be blowing his current numbers away.

It’s kind of like Tarasenko situation all over again, except fans gave him a pass and Kyrou won’t be getting that.

 

[Reality Czech]

It’s kind of like Tarasenko situation all over again, except fans gave him a pass and Kyrou won’t be getting that.

Wasn't there a five year period where Tarasenko was top 5 in the league in goals, if not higher? Scoring is up in the NHL since then but Vladi followed up 37 with 40, 39, 33, 33. And I'm pretty sure not all fans gave him a pass regardless. Why should Kyrou get a pass? Should he be immune to criticism or what?

Can we move this discussion to the other thread or nah?

I've got nothing bad to say about Holloway, I'll say that much.

 

[mk80]

How has Holloway looked?

Fan-freaking-tastic!