How Great Would Gretzky Be If He Played In The Modern Era? (post-lockout)

[SmytheKing]

Eye test says goalies are better, with better training and technique.

Goalies were smaller yes, they also really sucked back then. Compare the prevailing goalie techniques from the early 80s to now. Shooter tutors block more shots than goalies back then.

As far as watering down? I would say the current average is substantially higher skill level now a days due to a lot of advancements and more focus on development/diet/training.

Why ignore that he also played (and had success) in the late 90’s? Were the goalies in that era also on par with shooter tutors? If it was just the goalies sucking, why was he scoring at the same rate as mid-20 year old stars of that time when he was 36?

I mean Lemieux also played during that time. Was he also only good because of the goalies? Come on. This is silly.

 

[dekelikekocur]

Why ignore that he also played (and had success) in the late 90’s? Were the goalies in that era also on par with shooter tutors? If it was just the goalies sucking, why was he scoring at the same rate as mid-20 year old stars of that time when he was 36?

I mean Lemieux also played during that time. Was he also only good because of the goalies? Come on. This is silly.

Because I picked one of his first 200+ pt season to compare to modern day? His late 90's stats sucked ass and were far from his prime years.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The reverence of modern athletes as cyborgs makes me ****in’ sick.

Especially in a sport like hockey where let's be honnest , not everybody is an absolute athletic specimen, and athletic freaks usually play something else than hockey at least here in NA

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Excellent write up and I agree with just about every word.

If Craig Janney and Jimmy Carson could put up 100 points, so could Draisaital, Matthews, MacKinnon & Pastrnak consistently. People need to give their heads a shake.

 

[umma gumma]

The game today is faster largely because their is no two line offside. It would have been a treat to see the best passer in the game play without it. Today's players are not necessarily faster. Mike Gartner held the record for fastest skater for nearly 20 years until McDavid broke it (just), and his first season was 79-80.

 

[Nathaniel]

Why ignore that he also played (and had success) in the late 90’s? Were the goalies in that era also on par with shooter tutors? If it was just the goalies sucking, why was he scoring at the same rate as mid-20 year old stars of that time when he was 36?

I mean Lemieux also played during that time. Was he also only good because of the goalies? Come on. This is silly.

Lemieux was 8th in scoring and 2nd in ppg as recent as 2003. Scored 35 in 43 against better goalies than today. He is a different beast. 80's 70 and 85 goal seasons. 90's 69 in 60 n 69 in 70. 50 in 76. 2000's 35 in 43. The most era proof of the big 4

 

[KJoe88]

Not very good.

 

[bobholly39]

When he entered the league - scoring 200 was also impossible. Nearing ~150 was already considered all-time great stuff. ie - not that different from today. And then he went and did what he did anyways, scoring 200+ points.

I've always said this- but Gretzky (and this goes for Lemieux too) would score a ton in any era. If he started out his career in the NHL next season as an 18 year old - I'm pretty confident he'd hit 200 points (not as a rookie, I mean in his prime).

 

[Frank Drebin]

When he entered the league - scoring 200 was also impossible. Nearing ~150 was already considered all-time great stuff. ie - not that different from today. And then he went and did what he did anyways, scoring 200+ points.

I've always said this- but Gretzky (and this goes for Lemieux too) would score a ton in any era. If he started out his career in the NHL next season as an 18 year old - I'm pretty confident he'd hit 200 points (not as a rookie, I mean in his prime).

They’d score a ton for sure but it’s a different game than the 92 goal 212 point season he had in 81-82.

The oilers scored 417 goals that year. The second placed islanders scored 385. That is 4.85 goals per game average for the isles.

Compared to this year where the lightning and caps had 294 and 288 respectively, combined with incredible parity over 32 teams, 200 points is much closer to impossible than it was in 1981.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The game today is faster largely because their is no two line offside.

Lmao. The game is faster because the talent pool is bigger and better trained. Instead of huge expansions that completely diluted the talent and created a chasm between the best and worst players, like in the 70's, 80's and 90's, the period between 2003 and 2017 saw zero expansions at a time where hockey development programs became much bigger and sophisticated, which had the opposite impact, saturating talent, where there is now less difference between the worst and best compared to the expansion years, creating less time and space on the ice.

Thinking the two line pass is what makes the brunt of the difference is one of the most assinine takes I've ever read. Stop commenting on something you obviously have zero understanding of.

 

[umma gumma]

Lmao. The game is faster because the talent pool is bigger and better trained. Instead of huge expansions that completely diluted the talent and created a chasm between the best and worst players, like in the 70's, 80's and 90's, the period between 2003 and 2017 saw zero expansions at a time where hockey development programs became much bigger and sophisticated, which had the opposite impact, saturating talent, where there is now less difference between the worst and best compared to the expansion years, creating less time and space on the ice.

Thinking the two line pass is what makes the brunt of the difference is one of the most assinine takes I've ever read. Stop commenting on something you obviously have zero understanding of.

Obviously comprehension is an issue for you. I said largely, meaning there are other factors at play. If you can't understand how much removing the red line sped the game up then that's on you. Its fairly obvious to most everyone else.

'Removing the red line in hockey, a line that formerly restricted offensive zone play, has generally been perceived to increase the speed of the game by allowing for faster puck movement and transitions. While it's argued that the game is perceived faster due to the puck traveling end-to-end quicker, some believe it may have also reduced the need for strategic thinking and decision-making.'

The puck is moving a lot faster through the general course of a game because of it, and not necessarily because the players are faster. Mark Stone is no speed demon.

Thinking the two line pass makes little difference to the game's flow and speed is one of the most assinine takes I've ever read. Stop commenting on something you obviously have zero understanding of.

Bill Guerin won fastest skater in 2001, with a time slightly slower than Barzal in 2024 who finised 2nd to McDavid. Look who has a hard time chasing down 35 year old Gretzky. To boot, you get one of the best goalies to play the game in nets:

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Obviously comprehension is an issue for you.

Talk for yourself. I used the word brunt, which is a synonym of largely. You're out of your depth and naturally don't realize it.

 

[umma gumma]

Talk for yourself. I used the word brunt, which is a synonym of largely. You're out of your depth and naturally don't realize it.

Convenient for you to ignore the italicized part.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Wayne gretzky was faster than matt barzal. We have proof right here

 

[X66]

McDavid level production or higher.

Skill will always translate throughout generations.

Gretzky put up monster numbers in the dead puck era at the end of his career.

Lemieux almost won a scoring title in the dead puck era at the end of his career.

Sakic put up 100+ points near the end of his career in the "New NHL".

 

[umma gumma]

Wayne gretzky was faster than matt barzal. We have proof right here

Who said that? Are you just making stuff up to be heard?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Who said that? Are you just making stuff up to be heard?

Well what exactly was the point of posting that video lol?

 

[umma gumma]

Well what exactly was the point of posting that video lol?

That today's players are not cyborgs and not really that much faster than players 30 years ago?

 

[Frank Drebin]

That today's players are not cyborgs and not really that much faster than players 30 years ago?

parity

 

[umma gumma]

parity

That wouldn't stop Gretzky from being unquestionably the best player in the game today.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

To me, this question always leads me to more questions.

What would modern hockey even be if Gretzky didn't help change the game when he did?

With the massive increase in costs associated with playing hockey, would Gretzky even be a hockey player if he were born 40 years later?

Assuming he still plays, would modern organized youth hockey train some of the creativity out of Gretzky's game, in favor of making the "safe" play?

 

[Frank Drebin]

That wouldn't stop Gretzky from being unquestionably the best player in the game today.

of course.
He wouldn't be scoring 200 points and or 25% more points than the players of today however.

We will never see that level of dominance again. And it has less to do with Gretzkys greatness and more to do with how far the game has come in 45 years.

 

[umma gumma]

of course.
He wouldn't be scoring 200 points and or 25% more points than the players of today however.

We will never see that level of dominance again. And it has less to do with Gretzkys greatness and more to do with how far the game has come in 45 years.

Numbers are anyone's guess, but he would be dominant enough to never be under threat from losing the Art Ross year after year.

Unless Mario was playing.

 

[Toby91ca]

of course.
He wouldn't be scoring 200 points and or 25% more points than the players of today however.

Probably not, but who knows? Logic would suggest, with the NHL being far more global now than during Gretzky's prime, he wouldn't dominate the way he did then....talent pool must be higher today.

The thing is about the 80's, yes, higher scoring era, but if you go year to year and look at the most points scored (after removing Gretzky)....the points are fairly high, but not astronomical as you might think. There was a good stretch of 6 years where Gretzky won the scoring title each season, outpacing #2 by 44% on the low end to 69% on the high end.

 

[Natey]

With the newer skates, sticks, and training regimens? Still great, if not even more great.

Add that to every other player as well...