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How good was Daigle supposed to be?

Passchendaele

Registered User
Dec 11, 2006
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From what I've read, talent was not the issue with him. Money was thrown at him from the start, so he didn't put much effort into hockey.

Say he had Crosby's work ethic, how good do you think he would've been?
 
htk30 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Daigle

Ta da.
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I understand he was hyped to be the next great one, but that's not the point of the thread.

What I'm wondering is more along the lines of Had he played like he could have, what level of greatness could he have reached?

He was not a bust in the traditional sense that his game couldn't translate to the NHL level. Moreso that he didn't put any effort in becoming a dominant NHL player.
 
Alexandre Daigle

Complex blend of player, talent, hockey parent, desire, upper limit.

Many kids with similar talent leave youth hockey much earlier because they are given choices.

Hope he is happier now.
 
Well it's a very speculative question. Nobody ever saw prime Daigle fully developed as a player with work ethic and drive.

At the time it was by no means a consensus that he would become a franchise player. He was highly rated but I do remember there being a couple of knocks on him even then. His performance at the WJC was seen as lackluster.
 
What in the world do you consider a bust then..? He was brought to the Sens for the sole purpose of scoring goals. He did the exact opposite of that during his ENTIRE career. His highest goal total was 26. That, by a normal definition of "bust," is a bust. He didn't measure up to the potential that he was supposed to reach which, again, makes him a complete bust given what teams were willing to give for him.

The Nordiques offered the players they offered Philly for Lindros, for Daigle (supposedly along the lines of Hextall/Forsberg/etc) . Had he actually cared about the sport and playing as hard as he could, who knows? There's absolutely no way of telling what he could have been; injuries could have shortened his career.

Reading about him almost reminds me of Theo Fleury: bit of a headcase, drug use, partying, etc. Except Fleury had a lot of other demons that he dealt with in his own way and he turned out to be an incredible player.

It's like asking what Avery or Cooke could be if they weren't so engorged with being *******s. They'd probably be good players, they've shown they can be above average players, but who knows? Maybe not. Had they been mentally different, their entire careers might not have unfolded they ways they did. Avery might still be in LA or Detroit, Cooke might still be in Vancouver.
 
He was indeed a bust.

But he wasn't lacking the hockey IQ required to perform well in the NHL. Some of them busts just didn't develop like they should have.
 
Passchendaele said:
From what I've read, talent was not the issue with him. Money was thrown at him from the start, so he didn't put much effort into hockey.

Say he had Crosby's work ethic, how good do you think he would've been?
Click to expand...

His talent was over-rated as well. He was a great skater with a good shot but didn't have a lot of hockey sense. Dominated against boys in junior but even if he'd had a great work ethic I don't think he would have been a 'star' in the NHL.

I think if his heart would have been into it he could have been a consistent 30-40-70 guy who maybe hit 80 points in his best year. Watching him for a decade in the NHL, I was never left with the impression that he could have been a guy who was in/around the top 10 scorers in the league.

His skill package really wasn't that different from Maxim Afinogenov. No matter how good your skating is, if you don't don't have a head for the game, can't slow the play down, can't use your linemates really well then you won't be a true elite player.
 
If he had Crosbys work ethic he would have been an amazing player. He really was extremely talented, and you could see the remnant of that when you saw him play later when he tried to get his career together.

That really was the problem, the kid had from everything said about him and his own words and actions, one of the worst worth ethics once he reached the NHL ever.
 
I do remember the idea that Daigle had "hands of stone" even as a young player. We all know about his work ethic but I never thought of him as a talented player out there. Fast yes, but not a great stickhandler or anything like that. If I remember correctly the one move that Daigle thrived on in junior was cutting into the zone, waiting inside the blue line and feeding the late man on the rush. Once he hit the NHL that play was peeled apart since it was the only thing he could do. It's funny, but even when he was young in the NHL, like 20, 21, 22 or so, you never got the impression that he was going to bust out and put up gaudy numbers. You got that feeling with Joe Thornton because he progressed steadily but you never did with Daigle.
 
i remember some GMs (boston comes to mind) talking about how if they had the first pick, they'd take pronger.

that was a crazy time for overrating prospects. in the spring up to the draft, daigle, pronger, and kozlov were supposed to be the three can't' miss franchise players, with gratton and niedermayer not far behind. there were questions about kariya's size holding him back, which was weird because he was easily the best of any of those guys at the WJC and he played really well in the world championships his draft year.

just from my impressions, as a thirteen year old mind you, daigle was supposed to be guy you could build your offense around. he wasn't as highly touted as jason spezza was, but maybe jason spezza (in terms of impact, not style of play) would be a good comparison point for the kind of player daigle projected to be.

comparisons abounded to guy lafleur, which i think most people knew was ridiculous at the time. he looked overmatched at the WJC, but a lot of 17 year olds who turned out to be all-stars have looked overmatched against 19 year olds at the WJC. in terms of style, maybe daigle projected to be a smaller mike modano, if he'd never played for hitchcock? but then, like spezza, modano is another guy who had a long and successful career but never reached the level that was expected of him, though he made up for it by adding a really exceptional two-way element to his game. i'll throw marleau's name in there too. really really fast, hard shot with a great release, but the offensive vision isn't at that truly elite lafontaine or kariya level. also i don't think daigle could dangle nearly as well as afinogenov, but he had a much better shot.

as for what daigle could actually have been if he had the desire, i'm thinking mason raymond with a much better shot and scoring touch. fast as hell and not undersized, but also not a strong guy and fairly soft. probably a perimeter player, but with the ability and hockey sense to be responsible defensively and kill penalties if he had raymond's drive to improve his game. remember that daigle was pretty good defensively when he played for jacques lemaire in minnesota. i don't think he lacked hockey sense at all.
 
I remember Daigle's WJC coach saying (well after the tournament, of course) that he could tell right from the team's first practice that there was a world of difference between Daigle and his two most talented teammates, Chris Pronger and Paul Kariya.

He was definately overhyped. The Mario Lemieux comparisons were wince-inducing, even then. A lot of it had to do with the Ottawa Senators having the first overall pick and trying to win over some francophone fans from the Nordiques and Habs.

I recall Bob McKenzie saying that Daigle's upside was likely as a Pat LaFontaine player. That is, a highly-skilled point producing player with quickness and skill, but not a generational talent.

Knowing what we know now, I wonder if (had he had the desire) Daigle would have been something like Phil Kessel; a second-tier goal-scoring winger with some weaknesses and inconsistencies in his game, but enough speed and scoring ability to be an impact player.

As an added bonus to this post, here's the best play Daigle ever made in the NHL:

 
over the first 20 games of the 92-93 season, Daigle was averaging 4 points per game. He was on pace to break Lemieux's points record in the QMJHL... hence the Lemieux comparisons. he got suspended for 8 games and obviously his pace fell off quite on his return. so... he was the consensus number one pick, but i'd wager nobody inside the game thought he was the next Lemieux - that sentiment was probably entirely media/fan-propelled.

let me quote THN's 1993 Draft Preview:

"He is a marvellous skater with tremendous vision and playmaking skills.
'He would be in the top 20 per cent of the league's skaters his first day,' said Senators' scout Jim Nill.
Daigle relentlessly goes to the net and while his abilities as a playmaker have usurped his goalscoring, he owns an above average slap shot, a good release and excellent on ice instincts."

"The speedy center will take time to develop. He is the rawest of talents, weak defensively and undisciplined at times, prone to outburts.

'He wants to be the best. His temper is a positive. He's so competitive.' Ferguson (John, Ottawa Senators' director of player personnel at the time) said. And he has the breakaway speed and creative genius to be an impact offensive NHLer - in time."

here's an interesting post about daigle's career trajectory: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2295179&postcount=22
 
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I remember reading that the Senators tried to pawn the pick off to the Nords who they figured would want a francophone star, but the deal fell through because the Senators wanted Forsberg.

If Ottawa wanted Forsberg over him and Quebec wasn't willing to give up Forsberg for him, it kinda indicates that in NHL circles the evaluation for Daigle wasn't really at a "generational player" level either.
 
TheMoreYouKnow said:
I remember reading that the Senators tried to pawn the pick off to the Nords who they figured would want a francophone star, but the deal fell through because the Senators wanted Forsberg.

If Ottawa wanted Forsberg over him and Quebec wasn't willing to give up Forsberg for him, it kinda indicates that in NHL circles the evaluation for Daigle wasn't really at a "generational player" level either.
Click to expand...

It was the other way around. Quebec offered Forsberg for the pick, as I recall.

But I do remember the criticisms with him and his excellent speed, coupled with his lack of stickhandling and elite shot arsenal that wouldn't translate to the NHL.
 
Axxellien said:
Alexandre was the type of player who would have flourished had He joined a very good team, not a no hope, soul destroyng expansion franchise, imo
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I really, really question that. He has said himself that he never really had a passion for hockey, and said that it was something that his dad wanted more than him and that he was pretty good at so he kept with it. When he was traded to a really good Flyers team, he didn't look any better. Plus there have been many players that have flourished as the only guy on a crummy team. And he was playing with Alexei Yashin, so it's not like he was the only guy there with talent. And he basically peaked as a rookie when the team was at it's worst.

Plus I don't think Ottawa was all that soul destroying. He would've made the playoffs in his 4th season - not ideal, obviously, but going to the worst team in the league, you could endure far longer droughts. He really fell apart after we had made the playoffs, in actuality. Yashin, Redden and Phillips turned out as they should have, and Bonk was certainly better then Daigle ever was with less talent.
 
Ishdul said:
I really, really question that. He has said himself that he never really had a passion for hockey, and said that it was something that his dad wanted more than him and that he was pretty good at so he kept with it. When he was traded to a really good Flyers team, he didn't look any better. Plus there have been many players that have flourished as the only guy on a crummy team. And he was playing with Alexei Yashin, so it's not like he was the only guy there with talent. And he basically peaked as a rookie when the team was at it's worst.

Plus I don't think Ottawa was all that soul destroying. He would've made the playoffs in his 4th season - not ideal, obviously, but going to the worst team in the league, you could endure far longer droughts. He really fell apart after we had made the playoffs, in actuality. Yashin, Redden and Phillips turned out as they should have, and Bonk was certainly better then Daigle ever was with less talent.
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I don't know if I buy the argument that his heart wasn't in it. I mean he did literally play pro hockey until 2009-10, so he was in it for a long long time doing something he didn't like. Obviously money factored into it, but if he could simply apply himself, he had tens of millions to earn, potentially.

I think he just wasn't that talented. Plenty of QMJHL superstars have poor NHL careers, like Simon Gamache, Ramzi Abid, Brandon Reid, etc. while putting up huge junior numbers. Most of the time people are dialed in to the limitations of the prospects but something went amiss in 1993. Seems like everyone was just seduced by the flash of his game, which was very one trick pony.
 
Seriously......................

Stephen said:
I don't know if I buy the argument that his heart wasn't in it. I mean he did literally play pro hockey until 2009-10, so he was in it for a long long time doing something he didn't like. Obviously money factored into it, but if he could simply apply himself, he had tens of millions to earn, potentially.

I think he just wasn't that talented. Plenty of QMJHL superstars have poor NHL careers, like Simon Gamache, Ramzi Abid, Brandon Reid, etc. while putting up huge junior numbers. Most of the time people are dialed in to the limitations of the prospects but something went amiss in 1993. Seems like everyone was just seduced by the flash of his game, which was very one trick pony.
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Gamache and Reid 5'10" and 5.8" respectively well coached in midget, played in an appropriate junior system but were far from superstars. Abid was never a great skater who blew-out a knee about 7 years ago. Never a superstar. Could score in junior because of a size advantage.

Daigle as stated previously and supported by another poster, was pushed by his father. Otherwise he drops out of hockey before junior. He returned to hockey after some financial issues.
 
Canadiens1958 said:
Gamache and Reid 5'10" and 5.8" respectively well coached in midget, played in an appropriate junior system but were far from superstars. Abid was never a great skater who blew-out a knee about 7 years ago. Never a superstar. Could score in junior because of a size advantage.

Daigle as stated previously and supported by another poster, was pushed by his father. Otherwise he drops out of hockey before junior. He returned to hockey after some financial issues.
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I don't think he ever had the hands or the brains to be a great NHLer. That did him in more than not having the motivation to play.
 
The Opposite is True

Stephen said:
I don't think he ever had the hands or the brains to be a great NHLer. That did him in more than not having the motivation to play.
Click to expand...

The opposite is true. Alexandre Daigle got as far as he did on natural talent with minimal additional effort. He learned at a young age how to 'show" in practise and impress with what he could do. While other great talents work on their weaknesses or work on developing a game data bank - studying films, etc to the point of being obsessive compulsive Alexandre Daigle would just repeat his strengths unless a coach worked with him.

At the NHL level with time at a premium and players plentiful he just drifted, eventually running out of opportunities.
 
We might be arguing the same point, seems like he wasn't good enough to coast as an NHLer.
 
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