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How good was Alexei Yashin?

El Cohiba

El Cohiba

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Jul 3, 2011
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under the sunshine
I was born in the early 90's, so my recollection of him was a big, slow, semi-productive yet overpaid Islander. How good was he in his prime?

At the time, was he worth what Milbury gave up for him? Was he really a franchise player?
 
The guy was a total mercenary who's effort level fluctuated wildly depending on his degree of financial satisfaction.

In his youth, he could really turn it on when he wanted to and be a very dominant player. He eventually either lost that ability, or the willingness to use it.
 
At his best, he was runner up for the Hart trophy. Then came the contract disputes.... he was never the same after he held out the entire season in Ottawa.
 
TheDevilMadeMe said:
At his best, he was runner up for the Hart trophy. Then came the contract disputes.... he was never the same after he held out the entire season in Ottawa.
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Really?

Went from 82-44-50-94 to 82-40-48-88

Not much of a difference, really.

Yashin was just as good as Sundin/Modano in the 90s.. BUT (reasons).
 
Passchendaele said:
Really?

Went from 82-44-50-94 to 82-40-48-88

Not much of a difference, really.

Yashin was just as good as Sundin/Modano in the 90s.. BUT (reasons).
Click to expand...

It was a much quieter 88 points in 2001 than he had gotten in 1999. I am not sure how else to describe it, but he was no longer the man on Ottawa anymore. It was sort of painful to watch because he mustered 88 points with the least amount of heart or passion possible.

He had that one good year in 1999, but other than that especially in retrospect there is no way you take Yashin on your team over Modano or Sundin.
 
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Passchendaele said:
Really?

Went from 82-44-50-94 to 82-40-48-88

Not much of a difference, really.

Yashin was just as good as Sundin/Modano in the 90s.. BUT (reasons).
Click to expand...

1st part - you're mostly right (and I was mostly wrong). He didn't really go downhill until he was traded to the Islanders and even then, it wasn't that sharp. I must have been remembering that he was great in the 1998 playoffs... and terrible thereafter.

2nd part - he never had the two-way game of Dallas-era Modano, but for about 5 years, he was every bit ad good as Sundin (on average). Of course, Sundin did it for a lot longer.
 
Big Phil said:
It was a much quieter 88 points in 2001 than he had gotten in 1999. I am not sure how else to describe it, but he was no longer the man on Ottawa anymore. It was sort of painful to watch because he mustered 88 points with the least amount of heart or passion possible.

He had that one good year in 1999, but other than that especially in retrospect there is no way you take Yashin on your team over Modano or Sundin.
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I don't know, Phil, maybe our memories are clouded by thr holdout... and the subsequent playoff performances.
 
TheDevilMadeMe said:
At his best, he was runner up for the Hart trophy. Then came the contract disputes.... he was never the same after he held out the entire season in Ottawa.
Click to expand...

Was there much of a difference between his production in 1998-99 and 2000-01?

1999: 25-26-51 at even strength, 19-23-42 on powerplay
2001: 25-31-56 at even strength, 13-17-30 on powerplay

The Hart placement makes it seem even bigger, but he wasn't even the 1st Team All-Star at Center when he finished behind only Jagr in Hart voting, so he was getting it more for the value end of things (the top scorers were all pairs/three-man groups of teammates) - a consideration that voters obviously would not be giving him in 2000-01.


EDIT: But I guess most of that was covered while I was adding up ES/PP numbers.
 
Saying Yashin was as good as Sundin is disingenuous unless you just look at raw point totals over a short period of time.

Sundin ranks in the top ten all-time for game-winning goals, OT goals and shorthanded points.

Yashin ranks tied for 130th all-time for GWG, he scored three OT winners in his career and he ranks outside of the top 500 all-time for shorthanded points.

I watched enough of Sundin and saw/know enough about Yashin to know I wouldn't even entertain the idea of having a peak/prime Yashin instead. They're not interchangeable at all.


However, with that said, I liked Yashin for a period of time before he really became a headcase/playoff under-performer. He was a talented power centre who could dominate. It's mysterifying he struggled as much as he did in several playoffs.


I made a thread comparing him to Spezza earlier and Sens' fans said they prefer Jason (which isn't surprising) and others said that Yashin at his best was the better player but was too much of a head case to make one prefer him to Spezza.


https://nl.hideproxy.me/go.php?u=1P...x5ZgvtAA5OOKR1pGp7UdmWZ5X3Inh7GkksNDbNNT5&b=5
 
quoipourquoi said:
Was there much of a difference between his production in 1998-99 and 2000-01?

1999: 25-26-51 at even strength, 19-23-42 on powerplay
2001: 25-31-56 at even strength, 13-17-30 on powerplay

The Hart placement makes it seem even bigger, but he wasn't even the 1st Team All-Star at Center when he finished behind only Jagr in Hart voting, so he was getting it more for the value end of things (the top scorers were all pairs/three-man groups of teammates) - a consideration that voters obviously would not be giving him in 2000-01.


EDIT: But I guess most of that was covered while I was adding up ES/PP numbers.
Click to expand...

Maybe the biggest difference was that Yashin was far and away the scoring leader for the 1998-99 Senators. By 2000-01, Alfredsson had bounced back, Hossa had broken out, and both were close behind Yashin in scoring.

(Who would have guessed that Ottawa outscored Colorado in the 2000-01 regular season? The regular season stats make them look like an offensive juggernaut...which made the playoffs that much more disappointing.)
 
^In 1999, Yashin carried the Sens' offense by himself. By 2001, the team had become a legitimately deep and talented team.

By 2001, the team had guys like Hossa and Havlat, Bonk had had finally started to produce like he was expected to all along. Alfredsson did a lot better in 2001 than in '99. The Sens had guys like McEachern and Arvedson as well.

The team would lead the NHL in points and be a very high-scoring team a couple of years later in 2003.
 
I think one question I'd have about Yashin is that he had lackluster footspeed and a not wonderful compete level. Trying to think of another guy like that who's had MVP nom type success in this era. Best I can come up with is Getzlaf, but Getzlaf's a lot more intense than Yashin was.
 
TheDevilMadeMe said:
"Disingenuous" is the most overrated word on hfboards as of late.
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"Disingenuous" isn't really the best word to use, so I apologize for that. It does imply that one is being sneaky/trying to misrepresent a situation/comparison.

I can understand why someone who's not a fan of the teams that Yashin or Sundin played for would think that they were players of a similar calibre during their best seasons.


I think it's a somewhat... shallow comparison. Let's go with that. Granted, Sundin is chastised by some because he didn't take the Leafs to the SCF, but he never had a playoffs where he scored zero points or one. Yashin had several. Sundin did end up with 82 points in 91 playoff games and a +2 rating. Yashin had 27 in 48 games along with a -16 rating.

He also beat Yashin every time they met in the playoffs. Additionally, as mentioned, he was a more clutch performer during the regular season as well. He spent much more time killing penalties and didn't hold out while under contract.

Sundin also evolved his game more than Yashin did and was better a more versatile and reliable player.


So if we're just talking about talent, Yashin at his best may have been at or close to Sundin's level, but one was much more desirable as a first line or franchise centre than the other for numerous reasons.

If Yashin had focused more on evolving his game and maximizing his talent than on trying to alter his contract, then he could have truly been one of the better centres of his time, but his flaws were just too glaring to ignore.

 
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Possibly the most unfairly villified NHL player ever in my books. That alone makes him interesting historically. Peak-Jagr kept him from winning a Hart.

Ottawa went from Mickey Mouse levels of laughability to cup-contender while Yashin was the only common thread. His first three seasons with the team they put up seasons of 37, 23 (in 48 games) and 41 points. His final three seasons with the team (not including 99-00) they racked up 83, 103, and 109 points, with Yashin as their clear best player. A completely unprecedented turnaround. If the Sens would have paid him what he was worth, instead of vilifying the guy and taking the cop-out ‘lazy, greedy Russian’ line, he’d certainly be held in higher esteem.

The fact he came back the year after the hold-out and still put up 88 points as public enemy no. 1 on the road and at home says a fair bit about his character and drive. That couldn’t have been fun.

The Sens were due to pay the Hart runner-up $3.6 million the next season. We know he wanted to re-negotiate, coming off a rough play-offs (for him and the team), but do we know what kind of raise he was asking for? Other top centers at that time were earning close to double what he was.

We know now that the Senators ownership is/was notoriously cheap. Why haven’t we reframed how we view Yashin in light of that fact?
 
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In Yashin's last year on the Sens, I remember him executing an outstanding end-to-end play. He stickhandled through numerous players from his zone to the opponent's, all the way to the net and scored a goal.

And he did this with fairly average (through underrated at the time) foot speed. The play was made possible by his great hands excellent vision. The Sens fanbase was almost ready to forgive him that year, but once he left for Long Island the improving vibes ended.

I think Yashin is a misunderstood guy. He is a very likeable and friendly man who chose to play hardball with the businessmen who ran the Senators and a few other people who ran - I don't recall - either a charity or a museum. Yashin was going to make a donation, but changed his mind because something went haywire.

Yashin was assailed by some really nasty people in Canadian conservative media, most harshly by Sun Media who very effectively shaped public opinion. I am not saying that fans had to like Yashin's decision, but scribes like Earl McRae worked hard to present Yashin as the ugliest villain in hockey history.

Personally by default, I tend to take the side of players over owners because players are workers. Owners are the ones who control the media and have the most power to shape public opinion. Although Yashin made a mistake by sitting out while under contract, I believe him when he says that he had a handshake deal to renegotiate it. He believed that ethically he was in the right, and there is likely some substance behind that. Is this harder to believe this than to presume that he was simply greedy and a horrible human being?

Finally, Sun Media writers lumped Yashin's contract dispute situation with the idea that he was a lazy underachiever. I agree somewhat that Yashin underachieved, especially in the playoffs. But he was not lazy. Yashin actually worked pretty hard, but his subpar skating and a somewhat finesse style fit people's preconceptions and prejudices of a soft Euro. Although not the most hard working player in the world, I wouldn't call Yashin a floater.

The most unfortunate of Yashin's playoff failures was the 4-game sweep at the hand of the Sabres in that year before his sit-out. He had 24 shots on goal in those 4 games and was completely robbed by Hasek, putting up no points. The rest of his team did not fare much better. He became an easy target.

I think the mistake the Sens made was making him captain. I don't know why they did it. Yashin wasn't captain material, and they should have known that.
 
He definitely played an immense role in turning the Senators organization around. There's certainly no denying that.
 
Sutter pours bourbon said:
Ottawa went from Mickey Mouse levels of laughability to cup-contender while Yashin was the only common thread. His first three seasons with the team they put up seasons of 37, 23 (in 48 games) and 41 points. His final three seasons with the team (not including 99-00) they racked up 83, 103, and 109 points, with Yashin as their clear best player. A completely unprecedented turnaround.
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Team defense plays a huge role in that.

1994: 26/26 (+53 GA more than 25th)
1995: 23/26
1996: 21/26
1997: 12/26
1998: 9/26
1999: 3/27
2000: 10/28
2001: 9/30

I mean, there has to be some credit towards Jacques Martin, who took four Jack Adams nominations in Ottawa in that period.
 
Getting Somewhere

quoipourquoi said:
Team defense plays a huge role in that.

1994: 26/26 (+53 GA more than 25th)
1995: 23/26
1996: 21/26
1997: 12/26
1998: 9/26
1999: 3/27
2000: 10/28
2001: 9/30

I mean, there has to be some credit towards Jacques Martin, who took four Jack Adams nominations in Ottawa in that period.
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Good post that hilites the enigma that was Alexei Yashin. During Yashin's 200 sabbatical, the Senators defensively dropped from 3rd to 10th.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/y/yashial01.html

Yashin was an RHS center with average foot speed who played center because younger he was the best player on his youth hockey teams.

Usually such players are moved to wing by the NHL level. Yashin continued at center but he did not have center aptitudes. More than reasonable defensively he would have lapses. Losing the handedness advantage he enjoyed, not exploiting his handedness advantage on faceoffs, little inner game things.
 
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