How good of a goal scorer is Gordie Howe?

[JackSlater]

In 1998, I was telling everyone..."Dionne and Esposito are just a few goals ahead of him and they played in the wide open 70's. Mike Gartner IS without a DOUBT the 3rd best goal scorer in NHL history."

Then I said "Whoop, there it is", as was the style at the time.

The ignorant plebs of 1998 were way more willing to actually discuss players, in between Monica Lewinsky jokes anyway. This thread does have some good stuff pertaining to Howe's actual abilities though. I'm somewhat surprised he was so highly regarded on breakaways.

 

[TheBig08]

In 1998, I was telling everyone..."Dionne and Esposito are just a few goals ahead of him and they played in the wide open 70's. Mike Gartner IS without a DOUBT the 3rd best goal scorer in NHL history."

Then I said "Whoop, there it is", as was the style at the time.

"Mike Gartner 3rd all time" never heard that before

 

[Michael Farkas]

"Mike Gartner 3rd all time" never heard that before

Yeah, because it's the dumbest thing to say in the world. Other than starting a sentence with, "you must be a [astrological sign]..."

But, hey, that's the career value. That's the facts. At worst top 5, right?

(Of course not. Don't be such a Capricorn...)

 

[WarriorofTime]

Garner 5th, 9th, 9th, 9th, 10th best goal scoring finishes

Ovechkin 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 9th best goal scoring finishes

To me, Ovechkin's "greatest" goal scorer legacy has been secured for a long time already, no all time total needed, although that certainly doesn't hurt, lol. To the extent you differentiate "best" considering we can't transport players into different eras and you can think what you want and that's why we're here.

 

[TheBig08]

Garner 5th, 9th, 9th, 9th, 10th best goal scoring finishes

Ovechkin 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 9th best goal scoring finishes

To me, Ovechkin's "greatest" goal scorer legacy has been secured for a long time already, no all time total needed, although that certainly doesn't hurt, lol. To the extent you differentiate "best" considering we can't transport players into different eras and you can think what you want and that's why we're here.

imagine if he didn't have those random down years (2010-2011, 2011-2012, 2016-2017). why did he have those anyways was he just having down years or was there a reason?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

If we’re imagining. Imagine if he didn’t have those random “up” years.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I mean, there's also an "Ovechkin crowd" doing similar things.

No there isn’t.

It is not a thread about durability. How good of a goal scorer is Gordie Howe. How good of a goal scorer is Lemieux/Ovechkin/Hull/ whoever else, sure. We can already get a good guess at how good Matthews is as a goal scorer, and if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow his ability doesn't go down.

I assure you, it certainly does, because dead people tend not to score very many goals at all. Nor do disabled people ( in the nhl anyway).

 

[Professor What]

No there isn’t.

Yeah, there is.

 

[Michael Farkas]

The glass certainly isn't reflective...

 

[authentic]

Ovechkin vs those 1980s goal tenders probably would have been hilariously lopsided.

We will never know. All we know is Ovie crushed the hand he was dealt to a degree that there is no argument for any other player as the greatest goal scorer of all time.

I fully agree on both points, I just think Lemieux at his best was the best goal scorer based on ability and thinking of how many assists he was able to score on top of those goals and being a much more efficient shooter I don’t have any doubts about that opinion.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

No there isn’t.

Wow.

Unless you’re quibbling with the word “crowd” since one person isn’t much of a crowd. If so, then by all means, quibble.

 

[Professor What]

This is another one of those threads that got hijacked by a different player. Usually, it's Crosby or McDavid. This time it's Ovechkin.

 

[JackSlater]

No there isn’t.



I assure you, it certainly does, because dead people tend not to score very many goals at all. Nor do disabled people ( in the nhl anyway).

I agree with your dead theory not scoring many goals theory. In terms of discussing Matthews' quality as a goal scorer and his ability in a historical sense, it doesn't mean anything really. I certainly don't think that anyone is changing their mind here either way.

 

[The Panther]

I find this thread, and some recent ones, depressing. Not everyone who posts here needs to have a Ph.D in hockey history (I'm not an expert myself), but it seems to me we should be having mature and intelligent discussions without belligerence.

When posters are saying things like "There's no reasonable opinion except (mine)" on a given topic — which is exactly what at least one poster in this thread has done — a part of me dies inside, because this forum at its best has often been just wonderful. I've learned far more from this forum than from decades of reading articles and hockey books, and many on here have given their time to create amazing historical reports, statistical breakdowns, and more, which at times are stunning.

At the very least, we should enter historical discussions with an open mind and a willingness to learn from each other. Naturally, we all have our opinions and sometimes we might express them enthusiastically, but entrenching oneself in an argument (repeatedly... across multiple threads and months) is a bad look for the forum, to say the least.

It's also a bit weird to see so many threads discussing Alex Ovechkin lately because he is not... a historical player.

 

[VanIslander]

1. Howe as a top-10 goal scorer as claimed by the op;
2. OV as a better gosl scorer than Howe;
3. OV as a better goal scorer than Gretzky;
4. OV as a better goal scorer than Bossy.

Wouldn't it be riveting to have an hour-long round table with Roy, Hasek, Dryden, Brodeur, and several other all-time great goalies where the entire discussion was focused on skaters faced, not each other.

I'd pay $100 for an hour of that! No, $200.
Wa? Wouldn't you drive 100 km and stay in a motel for the night to attend such an event. I would! That's $200 all in.

The NHL and sporters marketers in general ought to read the room and plan events we'd gladly throw coin down on!

We got this - among other nuggets - for free:

 

[Crosby2010]

Howe was so good at, well, everything that we tend to underrate his goal scoring. Rocket scored 544 in his career and that was the standard. Howe broke that in 1963 and added onto it. 801 was extremely difficult to achieve. It wasn't just longevity:

Howe's goal scoring finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8

That is just insane. And it spans two different eras of hockey. Howe could do it in any era.