How does the Jackets D Corps compare in Metro
- Thread starter EspenK
- Start date
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Missing the Pens.
More or less in tiers:
Devils
.
Rangers, Islanders
.
Caps, Pens, Jackets
.
Canes
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Flyers
I might be underrating the Caps a tad, but I don't think so. Also, I could conceivably put the Devils in the same tier as the New Yorks as they're not that much different, but, meh.
IMO we're roughly in the middle of the division. Top of the bottom half, so to speak.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
- 4,446
Missing the Pens.
Freudian slip?
Actually I was having trouble slotting them in and then just forgot them. All I could think of was Letang.
The usual caveats apply. Do we just pretend Murray will be healthy?
To my mind the Caps are definitely ahead of us.
Orpik Carlson
Alzner Niskanen
That is no fun to play against.
Missing the Pens.
More or less in tiers:
Devils
.
Rangers, Islanders
.
Caps, Pens, Jackets
.
Canes
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Flyers
I might be underrating the Caps a tad, but I don't think so. Also, I could conceivably put the Devils in the same tier as the New Yorks as they're not that much different, but, meh.
IMO we're roughly in the middle of the division. Top of the bottom half, so to speak.
To my mind the Caps are definitely ahead of us.
Orpik Carlson
Alzner Niskanen
That is no fun to play against.
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
while I agree in theory...Carlson has never really impressed me, and its another year of Orpik getting older and slower...
With the loss of Martin, seems like the Pens are resting mainly on Letang and the young kid Maata. Cole hasn't proved a whole lot. It's a pretty big drop off from Letang to either Scuderi or Maatta (although I think he's going to be pretty good). I'm not sure you can tier that group with even the Jackets. The Islanders are an interesting group, but I don't think they are on the same level as the Rangers. I'm not sure they are really any better than our group.
I'd probably move the Isle down to the Jackets, drop the Pens down one notch, move the Caps up to where the Isle were, and move the Canes down a bit more. Good list.
I agree, the Pens are iffy. But I do like the Islanders D a lot.
Leddy - Boychuk
De Haan - Hamonic
Hickey - Mayfield
Pulock on the way.
I consider Leddy to be a marginal #1D, Boychuk and Hamonic as nasty #2 complements, and De Haan is still very young but he's already solidly second pair with maybe more to come.
NJD - NYI - NYR - WSH
CBJ
PIT
CAR
PHI
I'd much rather compare offenses.
Leddy - Boychuk
De Haan - Hamonic
Hickey - Mayfield
Pulock on the way.
I consider Leddy to be a marginal #1D, Boychuk and Hamonic as nasty #2 complements, and De Haan is still very young but he's already solidly second pair with maybe more to come.
NJD - NYI - NYR - WSH
CBJ
PIT
CAR
PHI
I'd much rather compare offenses.
WannabeFinn
Beloved One
NYR has the best D group by far with McD, Staal, Girardi, Yandle, Klein, Boyle. Everyone else outside of Philly and maybe NJD has 1-2 studs with some other solid pieces.
Philly's D group is laughable compared to everyone else. Carolina at least has Faulk, Wisniewski, Hanifin, etc..
Philly's D group is laughable compared to everyone else. Carolina at least has Faulk, Wisniewski, Hanifin, etc..
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I opted to give them the benefit of the doubt on their youth since we're kind of doing the same with Murray, really. May have overdone it.
They did lose some serious movers and shakers, but I think they have sufficiently decent kids that they can handle it. Mostly.They've got much better depth IMO, and I consider the Rangers to be a tad overrated in that I think of them as "very very good" instead of the "great" that folks seem to assume.
I didn't move the Caps up simply because they're leaning way too damn much on Orpik. He averaged just shy of 22 minutes a game last season. Given the state he's in, that's insanity. That said, I didn't give them much "youth benefit of the doubt" for guys like Orlov at all, so, meh. Couldn't reconcile it, so I just dropped in the disclaimer and walked away.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
"1-2 studs with some other solid pieces" adequately describes the Rangers as well. The stud is McD. Staal isn't even half of what he used to be before the eye injury, Girardi has suffered as a result, Klein's been problematic in possession, Yandle's in the "fourth forward" mold, and Boyle's "getting too old for this ****".
They've got very shiny names as their solid pieces... but that's still all that they are. Still, the cumulative effect makes them one of the better blueline groups in the division.
Oh, and the Devils? Greene, Larsson, and Severson are all very underrated IMO. Especially Greene. The blueline isn't the Devils' problem; it's that their forward corps (as I've put it previously) consists of Cammy, Zajac, Elias, and Lou Lamoriello's death stare.
Xoggz22
Registered User
Maybe it's the homer in me but this group doesn't scare me. I really like Carlson and think he's a top pair guy (not elite but very, very good). I also like Alzner who would be a top pair guy with any offense but I don't think he's quite at that level. Orpik doesn't impress me and will slow down even further and with an amped up offensive division he might struggle.
Niskanen wasn't the same player last year. Could be a new system, could be playing for Trotz. He's a solid offensive guy and a power play plus but I don't see him as special (not saying bad).It's a good group but I have a hard time admitting they are "definitely ahead of us". Granted, I'm a homer and see a high degree of potential within our group. If Murray is healthy, I think he's such a well rounded top end defenseman that it changes our entire makeup.
Xoggz22
Registered User
I don't see this as a "by far" better group. McD is probably the best in the division and he's a stud (I think the playoff struggles were explained by injury). I don't think the rest blow anyone away. Staal is a bottom pair guy in my mind. Yandle and Boyle are specialists with holes (very good offensive games) I like Klein and Girardi and think they are solid. I do think they remain the best group overall based on experience and history but they have more cracks than I think people want to point out.
I also think their OK goaltender might bail them out on occassion....
Xoggz22
Registered User
I find it difficult to isolate the defense as a unit without a guideline. Defensive statistics are impacted by everyone on the ice. If Bob plays up to Vezina caliber if our defense better? Without injury I think we carry the best group of 2-way forwards in the division which should impact supporting the defensemen. I get what the OP is after and am not making the case that the CBJ is the best group but I think the Pens, Flyers and Carolina will be very poor (even with Letang or Faulk) and I think the Isles might have the best overall 6 for well rounded and potential with NJ up there as well. Columbus is middle of the pack based on what I think this thread is going for but I also see a lot of potential with the expectation that Murray plays 75+ games and I don't think Goloubef was a fluke. I think he's going to be very, very good and take minutes from Savard. JJ as a "2nd pair" guy is a plus and Tyutin should rebound from his injury year.
What can I say? I'm an optimist and a bit of a homer.
What can I say? I'm an optimist and a bit of a homer.
Pretty much sums up how I feel. I've been trying to make that point about our fowards playing a strong two way game really helped our defense last season. I'm not really worried about our defense around here as some are for that reason exactly.I find it difficult to isolate the defense as a unit without a guideline. Defensive statistics are impacted by everyone on the ice. If Bob plays up to Vezina caliber if our defense better? Without injury I think we carry the best group of 2-way forwards in the division which should impact supporting the defensemen. I get what the OP is after and am not making the case that the CBJ is the best group but I think the Pens, Flyers and Carolina will be very poor (even with Letang or Faulk) and I think the Isles might have the best overall 6 for well rounded and potential with NJ up there as well. Columbus is middle of the pack based on what I think this thread is going for but I also see a lot of potential with the expectation that Murray plays 75+ games and I don't think Goloubef was a fluke. I think he's going to be very, very good and take minutes from Savard. JJ as a "2nd pair" guy is a plus and Tyutin should rebound from his injury year.
What can I say? I'm an optimist and a bit of a homer.
If Murray becomes the next McDonagh or the next John Carlson, then of course that changes everything. I'll count that chicken if it hatches.
They've got much better depth IMO, and I consider the Rangers to be a tad overrated in that I think of them as "very very good" instead of the "great" that folks seem to assume.
Yeah, but they were also 23rd in goals allowed and they kind of split the load. It's a decent group, but nothing really elite in there - at least yet.
I'm not on board with the love of the Devils blueline. New York's is the only defense corps I'd swap ours for - and Murray's potential makes me reluctant to even do that.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
...that's odd, I could have sworn they'd done better than that. That's dramatic enough that I can't write it off as "well, Halak ain't no Lundqvist/Schneider/Bobrovsky/Holtby/etc." either.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,701
- 26,750
Uhh..Whats so special about New Jersey's defense that everyone has them ranked in the 'top tier'?
NYR
NYI
WSH
CAR
CBJ
PIT
NJ
PHI
NYR
NYI
WSH
CAR
CBJ
PIT
NJ
PHI
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Sheer depth. One could reasonably argue that there isn't a single bottom-pairing guy on their blueline. Nobody else in the division has that. They have blueliners the way we have LWs (and had centers, before the trade for Saad).
Yes, I am including NYR in that evaluation.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,701
- 26,750
John Moore? Eric Gelinas? I don't see whats so special about anyone on that D besides Seversson and Larsson's potential.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
- 18,087
- 535
I think Philly has the most intriguing group of defensemen, and it could be the best by the end of the year.
Reason being that, although I wouldn't have much confidence in their guys on the current NHL roster (Streit, MacDonald, Schenn, Schultz, and Gudas), there are a lot of young guys with big upside that could play their way into the lineup very soon and get a lot of ice time. The guys ready to step in are Gostisbehere, Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg, Morin, and the 32-year-old KHL lifer Medvedev. There's a lot of potential there.
Reason being that, although I wouldn't have much confidence in their guys on the current NHL roster (Streit, MacDonald, Schenn, Schultz, and Gudas), there are a lot of young guys with big upside that could play their way into the lineup very soon and get a lot of ice time. The guys ready to step in are Gostisbehere, Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg, Morin, and the 32-year-old KHL lifer Medvedev. There's a lot of potential there.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,701
- 26,750
In a year or two they will have a beast D core with the guys you mentioned. I don't really believe in Morin, but I think Sanheim, Hagg, Ghost, and Provorov are all beasts.
...that's odd, I could have sworn they'd done better than that. That's dramatic enough that I can't write it off as "well, Halak ain't no Lundqvist/Schneider/Bobrovsky/Holtby/etc." either.
Wait, are we judging the defense (the six D) or the team defense? The Isles D excels at quick transition. They get the puck up ice very fast and it makes them dangerous on the rush. But it also periodically ends in chaos and goals against. I think on balance, what Leddy et.co. bring to the game leads to a lot more goals for than goals against.
