How do you fix the Wings?

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Scanned the "K'Andre Miller Trade" google search result articles...

It sounds like the Rangers (or at least their writers and fans) have no interest in extending Miller...he's an RFA...and want to trade him asap for whatever they can get...mid-rd picks'ish.

Sounds like he's struggled a bit recently...but maybe worth looking into at a bargain price

KT Miller would be a great add I think

 

[RRhoads]

Looking at a LD, I guess my question is: How are you feeling about Albert right now? He's looking like a bonafide top4 right now on his off side. Chiarot is looking alright with Mo right now, Ed has another LD spot locked down. Before dumping assets and cash in bringing in another LD, I think I'd want to see what Albert looks like over a longer haul.

Agreed. That is why I think we should hold off on doing any trades.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Seems the answer, at least for the moment, was to fire Lalonde.

 

[Reddwit]

Looking at a LD, I guess my question is: How are you feeling about Albert right now? He's looking like a bonafide top4 right now on his off side. Chiarot is looking alright with Mo right now, Ed has another LD spot locked down. Before dumping assets and cash in bringing in another LD, I think I'd want to see what Albert looks like over a longer haul.

Al looks totally competent next to Edvinsson. It’s a night and day difference from how he looked on the bottom pairing under Lalonde to what he looks like on the 2nd pair with Ed. He’s not playing a ton of minutes, but he doesn’t see special teams time, so it’s all ES. I’d run with Al and Ed for now.

Slightly related, but this is exactly why I wanted Lalonde fired mid-season - to give us time THIS season to see how our players look under a different coach in a different system, so we can make better roster-building decisions at the deadline and in the off-season. Al’s case is a prime example of what I mean. Under Lalonde, he looked like a replacement level player. But under McLellan, it looks like there could be something solid there. If he keeps this up, then our approach to bolstering the defense looks different and ultimately less dire going into the deadline/off-season.

Side note: I was at the game last night, and both after Al scored his goal and at the end of the game, Ed was all over Al with excitement for him. They must have a great off-ice relationship because Ed was just beyond stoked for Al last night. You love to see it.

 

[FMichael]

Seems the answer, at least for the moment, was to fire Lalonde.

Wonder where this team would be in the standings had Lalonde been let go this past summer?

If anything it just proves that coaching at the NHL level continues to have an effect with the players overall performance.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Wonder where this team would be in the standings had Lalonde been let go this past summer?

If anything it just proves that coaching at the NHL level continues to have an effect with the players overall performance.

41-0, obviously

 

[gritdash60]

Some people here called me out for saying Lalonde needs to get fired. Can you please now tell me that it wasn't the coaching change and Wings went from bottom feeder to this winstreak just randomly?

 

[PelagicJoe]

Some people here called me out for saying Lalonde needs to get fired. Can you please now tell me that it wasn't the coaching change and Wings went from bottom feeder to this winstreak just randomly?

Coach change is a big plus. Petry being out helps.

 

[Gniwder]

Some people here called me out for saying Lalonde needs to get fired. Can you please now tell me that it wasn't the coaching change and Wings went from bottom feeder to this winstreak just randomly?

LOL, everyone here wanted Fester gone. That's some weird victim syndrome you got going.

Need proof? Only 6.4% of the people here wanted to keep Fester, and I bet a revote would yield even lower results. The only people that wanted to keep him was for the purpose of tanking.

Thread 'What do you think should happen with Derek Lalonde?'

Nov 16, 2024

Lalonde is in the final year of his contract, and while the team has shown improvement each year it is currently 13th in the conference and is pacing for 77 points, a big step back from last season's 91 points. Do you think Lalonde can get it done, or are you ready to move on?

• Run the Jewels
• Replies: 356
• Forum: Detroit Red Wings

 

[ElProfessor]

Wings could really use a solid defensive LD. Someone we could pair with Seider with that would allow him to jump into plays more often. Miller and Pettersson would both be interesting options.

Ed seems have a style that allows him to play effectively with all sorts of dmen. I'm ok trying him with Chia or Aljo for a year until ASP is hopefully ready for that top 4 RD spot. (Assuming ASP doesn't kill it in camp and take the spot).

I'd love to see it happen sooner rather than later as I really think it could help the push this season, but at least come the off season they need to get at least 1 defensive upgrade.

Looking at a LD, I guess my question is: How are you feeling about Albert right now? He's looking like a bonafide top4 right now on his off side. Chiarot is looking alright with Mo right now, Ed has another LD spot locked down. Before dumping assets and cash in bringing in another LD, I think I'd want to see what Albert looks like over a longer haul.

KT Miller would be a great add I think

Agreed. That is why I think we should hold off on doing any trades.

Al looks totally competent next to Edvinsson. It’s a night and day difference from how he looked on the bottom pairing under Lalonde to what he looks like on the 2nd pair with Ed. He’s not playing a ton of minutes, but he doesn’t see special teams time, so it’s all ES. I’d run with Al and Ed for now.

Slightly related, but this is exactly why I wanted Lalonde fired mid-season - to give us time THIS season to see how our players look under a different coach in a different system, so we can make better roster-building decisions at the deadline and in the off-season. Al’s case is a prime example of what I mean. Under Lalonde, he looked like a replacement level player. But under McLellan, it looks like there could be something solid there. If he keeps this up, then our approach to bolstering the defense looks different and ultimately less dire going into the deadline/off-season.

Side note: I was at the game last night, and both after Al scored his goal and at the end of the game, Ed was all over Al with excitement for him. They must have a great off-ice relationship because Ed was just beyond stoked for Al last night. You love to see it.

I've thought Johansson was our 3rd best D behind Seider and Edvinsson since his first game. He's small...but I almost never see him making mistakes. He's fast and he's always in the right position. He's very high IQ and always makes the right decisions w the puck. He's very poised and skilled with the puck...and gets it out of high-danger situations nearly 100% of the time. And he never leaves his man open in scoring position.

He can play left side or right side. He can play on the top pair in a pinch. He's never going to be a high point total player, so his first real contract of length shouldn't price him out of the 3rd pair. He's a real blessing to have. Players get hurt over the course of a season, and he can step in anywhere in the lineup and not cost you games. He'll get 10-20lbs stronger before he's 30 as well.

If you can get Miller cheap, of course you do it. He's a big immediate upgrade over Perry/Holl/Gustafsson...maybe even Chiarot. If the cost is significant, you have to think about it a bit. 1) He's a RFA at the end of the yr. What AAV is it gonna take to keep him? How long is the contract going to be? 2) What is he here? Is he the LHD missing in our core top-4 (Seider, Edvinsson, ASP, ???). Or is he a 3rd pair guy?

If you think he's a 3rd pair guy, and he's going to be too expensive for that role, and the trade price is too high...of course you pass.

If you think he's that core top-4 piece.....that he can improve upon what's pissed off Ranger fans and writers so much.....then start the negotiations and see how cheaply he can be brought in and extended.

And what are your other options? Chychrun? Pettersson? Provorov? Waiting 3yrs for a new 1st Rd pick to be ready? Is there a trade option out there?

Walman apparently wasn't good enough in SY's eyes to be that top 4 LHD for us. Is Miller?

 

[Oddbob]

Some people here called me out for saying Lalonde needs to get fired. Can you please now tell me that it wasn't the coaching change and Wings went from bottom feeder to this winstreak just randomly?

False news. It was a resounding get rid of Lalonde on HFWings from game 1, and many of us wanted him gone before the season even started.

 

[Oddbob]

I feel like a few of you are watching a much different Aljo than I see. I still see a low physicality defender with few things to say are good. He is also a minus in most of the games since coaching change with extremely low ice time for a defenceman. -4 in his last 5 games played when we have been winning all but one since the coach change.

I feel like he is an injury replacement at best and is easily replaceable. He is not really any better than Gus Lindstrom, except for skating. I feel like some want him to be good, but it just ain't happening, so they pretend he is good.

 

[1878rgw]

-4 in his last 5 games played when we have been winning all but one since the coach change.

He only played 3 games since the change and is -1 in these games.

 

[DoMakc]

I feel like a few of you are watching a much different Aljo than I see. I still see a low physicality defender with few things to say are good. He is also a minus in most of the games since coaching change with extremely low ice time for a defenceman. -4 in his last 5 games played when we have been winning all but one since the coach change.

I feel like he is an injury replacement at best and is easily replaceable. He is not really any better than Gus Lindstrom, except for skating. I feel like some want him to be good, but it just ain't happening, so they pretend he is good.

What you are saying has nothing to do with how he plays. You can get his height, stats and ice time from scoresheet

 

[Pavels Dog]

-4 in his last 5 games played when we have been winning all but one since the coach change.

As pointed out, he's -1 in 3 games since the coaching change.

I feel like he is an injury replacement at best and is easily replaceable. He is not really any better than Gus Lindstrom, except for skating.

"except for skating" is a pretty major exception though. Albert's always had more skill with the puck, better offense, more puck-movement ability etc.

I feel like some want him to be good, but it just ain't happening, so they pretend he is good.

I think there are reasons the Wings stay patient with him. I think there are reasons they don't expose him to waivers and why other teams would jump at the opportunity to claim him if they did. I also think there are reasons Mclellan, as a highly experienced NHL coach, gave him the opportunity to play 2nd pair with Edvinsson.

None of it is "pretend". But he has only 20 games at the NHL level. Some growing pains are to be expected.

 

[Winger98]

I've thought Johansson was our 3rd best D behind Seider and Edvinsson since his first game. He's small...but I almost never see him making mistakes. He's fast and he's always in the right position. He's very high IQ and always makes the right decisions w the puck. He's very poised and skilled with the puck...and gets it out of high-danger situations nearly 100% of the time. And he never leaves his man open in scoring position.

He can play left side or right side. He can play on the top pair in a pinch. He's never going to be a high point total player, so his first real contract of length shouldn't price him out of the 3rd pair. He's a real blessing to have. Players get hurt over the course of a season, and he can step in anywhere in the lineup and not cost you games. He'll get 10-20lbs stronger before he's 30 as well.

If you can get Miller cheap, of course you do it. He's a big immediate upgrade over Perry/Holl/Gustafsson...maybe even Chiarot. If the cost is significant, you have to think about it a bit. 1) He's a RFA at the end of the yr. What AAV is it gonna take to keep him? How long is the contract going to be? 2) What is he here? Is he the LHD missing in our core top-4 (Seider, Edvinsson, ASP, ???). Or is he a 3rd pair guy?

If you think he's a 3rd pair guy, and he's going to be too expensive for that role, and the trade price is too high...of course you pass.

If you think he's that core top-4 piece.....that he can improve upon what's pissed off Ranger fans and writers so much.....then start the negotiations and see how cheaply he can be brought in and extended.

And what are your other options? Chychrun? Pettersson? Provorov? Waiting 3yrs for a new 1st Rd pick to be ready? Is there a trade option out there?

Walman apparently wasn't good enough in SY's eyes to be that top 4 LHD for us. Is Miller?

Yeah, I think this is something of increasing importance. With how good Mo and Ed are, we don't necessarily need great guys to pair with them, we need complimentary guys to play with them. Folks have been pushing for Rasmus Andersson, and he's a helluva D... but I'm not sure he's needed.

Maybe Miller is one of those complimentary guys, I don't know. But watching Albert do well next to Ed and Chiarot holding the line with Mo, I think we can afford to look for those complimentary pieces for our blueline, and not another all-star.

 

[The Zermanator]

Yeah, I think this is something of increasing importance. With how good Mo and Ed are, we don't necessarily need great guys to pair with them, we need complimentary guys to play with them. Folks have been pushing for Rasmus Andersson, and he's a helluva D... but I'm not sure he's needed.

Maybe Miller is one of those complimentary guys, I don't know. But watching Albert do well next to Ed and Chiarot holding the line with Mo, I think we can afford to look for those complimentary pieces for our blueline, and not another all-star.

Especially when there's a very good chance we add another all-star for free in the next couple years. With Seider, Edvinsson, and ASP, we only need quality complimentary pieces going forward. Quality complimentary piece meaning players like Johansson, not Petry Gustafsson, or Holl. We also have Buium, Wallinder, and a couple others who could develop into those pieces sooner than later.

With the goaltending and defence situations in a great place, the focus should be on resolving the centre question. With Pettersson available, I think that's the best shot we're going to have at an elite 1C for the foreseeable future and should jump on it with a major offer.

 

[SoupNazi]

Some people here called me out for saying Lalonde needs to get fired. Can you please now tell me that it wasn't the coaching change and Wings went from bottom feeder to this winstreak just randomly?

Yeah. This is a weird “woe is me” given how many people actually liked Fester (like all two of them).

 

[theYman]

Still need centers. Weak up the middle other than Larkin

 

[HisNoodliness]

Yeah, I think this is something of increasing importance. With how good Mo and Ed are, we don't necessarily need great guys to pair with them, we need complimentary guys to play with them. Folks have been pushing for Rasmus Andersson, and he's a helluva D... but I'm not sure he's needed.

Maybe Miller is one of those complimentary guys, I don't know. But watching Albert do well next to Ed and Chiarot holding the line with Mo, I think we can afford to look for those complimentary pieces for our blueline, and not another all-star.

Assuming that there's no big surprises, I imagine our future top 4 will have 2 formations:

1. Godly two way first pairing that eats all of the hard minutes for an offensive second pairing:
Ed-Seider
Unknown-ASP

2. Shutdown top pair with a godly offensive second pair that can also handle difficult minutes
Unknown- Seider
Ed-ASP

When I try to think about who the unknown should be, I think AlJo has just about the perfect play style for how I like hockey to be played. For Yzerman, I think K'andre Miller makes a lot more sense.


AlJo's game relies on his agile skating and strong anticipation to solve problems before they arise. He's not ahead of the play at NHL speed and so he's just keeping his head above water. Combined with his lack of strength and I don't know if he'll ever be able to survive the kinds of minutes Seider will play.

However if he develops well, I think he's the perfect complimentary piece to facilitate the game of an elite D like Seider or ASP. He can get to pucks early, be a consistent passing option, stay back and nail his positioning. He doesn't play the same way physically, but there's a lot of Anton Stralman in AlJo.

I think Yzerman would prefer another guy along the big guy that can skate angle. Having ASP in the top 4 is fine. But 2 guys less than 6'3?! I don't think Yzerman can stomach it. Assuming Miller rejuvenates his game, he'd make an absolutely menacing pairing with Seider. They'd leave so few passing lanes uncovered. They'd crush people left and right and mug people in the corners or in front of the net. With ASP, Miller could hand the physical stuff. Making a more balanced pairing than AlJo-ASP. That's how I think Yzerman and the Wings brass sees things. I'm okay with that view.


On a side note, I hate that this thread is about K'Andre Miller and JT Miller at the same time.

 

[ElProfessor]

Assuming that there's no big surprises, I imagine our future top 4 will have 2 formations:

1. Godly two way first pairing that eats all of the hard minutes for an offensive second pairing:
Ed-Seider
Unknown-ASP

2. Shutdown top pair with a godly offensive second pair that can also handle difficult minutes
Unknown- Seider
Ed-ASP

When I try to think about who the unknown should be, I think AlJo has just about the perfect play style for how I like hockey to be played. For Yzerman, I think K'andre Miller makes a lot more sense.


AlJo's game relies on his agile skating and strong anticipation to solve problems before they arise. He's not ahead of the play at NHL speed and so he's just keeping his head above water. Combined with his lack of strength and I don't know if he'll ever be able to survive the kinds of minutes Seider will play.

However if he develops well, I think he's the perfect complimentary piece to facilitate the game of an elite D like Seider or ASP. He can get to pucks early, be a consistent passing option, stay back and nail his positioning. He doesn't play the same way physically, but there's a lot of Anton Stralman in AlJo.

I think Yzerman would prefer another guy along the big guy that can skate angle. Having ASP in the top 4 is fine. But 2 guys less than 6'3?! I don't think Yzerman can stomach it. Assuming Miller rejuvenates his game, he'd make an absolutely menacing pairing with Seider. They'd leave so few passing lanes uncovered. They'd crush people left and right and mug people in the corners or in front of the net. With ASP, Miller could hand the physical stuff. Making a more balanced pairing than AlJo-ASP. That's how I think Yzerman and the Wings brass sees things. I'm okay with that view.


On a side note, I hate that this thread is about K'Andre Miller and JT Miller at the same time.

Very, very well put.

I don't know K. Miller as well as you do...but you've sold me on the idea of trading for him and extending him on a short, reasonable bridge contract.

And I think you're 100% right about Johansson, and about SY's outlook. You love to have him as a 3rd pair D who can step up and play on the 1st or 2nd pair without missing a beat when needed. You don't love going into a season with two small defenders in your top-4.

 

[redwingsfannn9191]

K miller is about to be 25 and will want longer deal . No way yzerman will commit to longterm 7-8+

What would do this contract look like if we go him ??? 5 years? Hed be a ufa at 30 and can go for a longterm deal then .. guessing around 6 per ??

 

[lilidk]

The biggest difference with the new era is that team feels confident in believing themselves. Lalonde will be good as tv commentator or something like that.