How do you fix the Wings?

[odin1981]

We can't wait another season. Petry is off the books after this year. But chiarot, gustufsin and holl also need to be moved this off season.

Who is gonna offer anything for them? Realistically speaking. The dream of moving off them is a pure fantasy. At best, maybe Holl (1 year remaining after this year could potentially be moved off next trade deadline to someone needing a vet bottom pairing defender for depth on a plaoff run).

 

[heyfolks]

Retooling my post:

This season: The only move is to dump LaLonde. If he isn't gone, the goal is clearly to hit the lottery and dump assets at the deadline.


Going into the off season, you assess the core group, contract status and prioritize needs.

CORE ROSTER ((meaning they will not be moved)
Forwards: Larkin, Cat, Raymond, Kasper
D: Mo and Simon
Net: Lyon (Talbot is under contract for another year, but Lyon is a low cost place holder for Cossa.)

COLOR CODE:

RED = gone
Green = sign
Yellow = ????

UFA at season's end:

Kane
Fisher
Motte
Pety
Husso
Lyon
Campbell

RFA:

Ajo
Berggren

25-26 roster adds:

MBN
ND
Wallinder
?? < They really need a #3 on D.

Post 26-27 season moves:

UFAs at end of season:

Tarasenko
Chiarot
Holl
Gustfasson
Talbot

RFA:
Veleno
Kasper
Edvinsson


OFF SEASON MOVES: MANY!

SUMMARY:

Without big moves, this means the core for the next two seasons (based on contract length) and skill are:

NEXT SEASON:

Centers: Larkin, ND, Kasper, Compher
Wings: Cat, Raymond, Copp, Rasmussen, MBN, Tarasenko, Veleno, OPEN
D: Simon, Mo, Chiarot, Gustafsson, Holl, OPEN, OPEN
G: Lyon, Talbot, Cossa


TWO SEASONS FROM NOW
Centers: Larkin, ND, Kasper, Compher
Wings: Cat, Raymond, Copp, Rasmussen, MBN, 3x OPEN
D: Simon, Mo, ASP 4x OPEN
N: Lyon, Cossa

I suggest this is how we look at retooling the team. They won't/can't eat all of these contracts. One or two sure, but they still need to ice a team so I can't see them just blowing up the roster.

Detroit Red Wings Multi-Year Table

A summary of financial breakdowns for the Detroit Red Wings, including multi-year cap totals, player cap hits & free agents.

www.spotrac.com

 

[Gniwder]

Yzerman is not going to make any crazy moves. He is very similar to Ken Holland in that regard.

I would do a fire sale and trade Larkin and restart the rebuild. Which is what I would have done prior to Larkin's contract extension. I never had any faith in the roster with Larkin as the Wings best player. Great player, but he just isn't enough. I do understand why Yzerman didn't do that though. I don't live in a fantasy world...most of the time.

Larkin won't get traded because he's a fan favorite. There's a marketing aspect that needs to be considered. If the team still sucks at the end of his contract, he might get traded to a contender so he can win the Cup before retiring.

Retooling my post:

This season: The only move is to dump LaLonde. If he isn't gone, the goal is clearly to hit the lottery and dump assets at the deadline.


Going into the off season, you assess the core group, contract status and prioritize needs.

CORE ROSTER ((meaning they will not be moved)
Forwards: Larkin, Cat, Raymond, Kasper
D: Mo and Simon
Net: Lyon (Talbot is under contract for another year, but Lyon is a low cost place holder for Cossa.)

COLOR CODE:

RED = gone
Green = sign
Yellow = ????

UFA at season's end:

Kane
Fisher
Motte
Pety
Husso
Lyon
Campbell

RFA:

Ajo
Berggren

25-26 roster adds:

MBN
ND
Wallinder
?? < They really need a #3 on D.

Post 26-27 season moves:

UFAs at end of season:

Tarasenko
Chiarot
Holl
Gustfasson
Talbot

RFA:
Veleno
Kasper
Edvinsson


OFF SEASON MOVES: MANY!

SUMMARY:

Without big moves, this means the core for the next two seasons (based on contract length) and skill are:

NEXT SEASON:

Centers: Larkin, ND, Kasper, Compher
Wings: Cat, Raymond, Copp, Rasmussen, MBN, Tarasenko, Veleno, OPEN
D: Simon, Mo, Chiarot, Gustafsson, Holl, OPEN, OPEN
G: Lyon, Talbot, Cossa


TWO SEASONS FROM NOW
Centers: Larkin, ND, Kasper, Compher
Wings: Cat, Raymond, Copp, Rasmussen, MBN, 3x OPEN
D: Simon, Mo, ASP 4x OPEN
N: Lyon, Cossa

I suggest this is how we look at retooling the team. They won't/can't eat all of these contracts. One or two sure, but they still need to ice a team so I can't see them just blowing up the roster.

Detroit Red Wings Multi-Year Table

A summary of financial breakdowns for the Detroit Red Wings, including multi-year cap totals, player cap hits & free agents.

www.spotrac.com

I hope Stevie learned a lesson about signing bargain basement UFAs.

 

[rangersblues]

Larkin won't get traded because he's a fan favorite. There's a marketing aspect that needs to be considered. If the team still sucks at the end of his contract, he might get traded to a contender so he can win the Cup before retiring.


I hope Stevie learned a lesson about signing bargain basement UFAs.

Unless you are one key player away from seriously challenging for the Cup, UFA signings are a serious waste of time. It's nothing but a drunken shopping spree where you overpay for everything. It's best left for other teams. Especially in a salary cap league where it's difficult to clear bad contracts.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No chance MBN is on the team next season and to be honest he isn't good enough to be...

Kasper Yes
Soderblom Yes
Danielson Yes
Cossa Maybe
Wallinder No
ASP No
Mazur No
Lombardi No

SY will look to trade this season
Kane
Lyon
Motte
Petry
Veleno
and hopefully Rasmussen

SY will then hope to draft top 5 and then
look to sign x2 or 3 FAs in July

Debrincat-Larkin-UFA
Kasper-Danielson-Raymond
Tank-Compher-Soderblom
Fischer-Copp-UFA

UFA-Seider
SE-Chariot
Johansson-Gus
Holl

Talbot
Cossa

 

[Pavels Dog]

No chance MBN is on the team next season and to be honest he isn't good enough to be...

He’s good enough now, with another year if development he should have a good shot at making it.

 

[Gniwder]

No chance MBN is on the team next season and to be honest he isn't good enough to be...

Kasper Yes
Soderblom Yes
Danielson Yes
Cossa Maybe
Wallinder No
ASP No
Mazur No
Lombardi No

SY will look to trade this season
Kane
Lyon
Motte
Petry
Veleno
and hopefully Rasmussen

SY will then hope to draft top 5 and then
look to sign x2 or 3 FAs in July

Debrincat-Larkin-UFA
Kasper-Danielson-Raymond
Tank-Compher-Soderblom
Fischer-Copp-UFA

UFA-Seider
SE-Chariot
Johansson-Gus
Holl

Talbot
Cossa

Considering the garbage that Stevie keeps signing, I'd just as soon throw the kids straight into the dumpster fire than sign more Copps or Holls or Gus', etc. I think the only UFAs I want are the top 2.... Marner and Rantanen.

 

[jkutswings]

Considering the garbage that Stevie keeps signing, I'd just as soon throw the kids straight into the dumpster fire than sign more Copps or Holls or Gus', etc. I think the only UFAs I want are the top 2.... Marner and Rantanen.

That's the part I don't get. A lot of the young players and prospects are very encouraging. But even if I'm both optimistic about the future and completely willing to wait another few years before it starts coming together...

What's the point in opting for such a crappy means of treading water in the meantime?

I had thought the approach was to add some veterans to insulate the kids while they learn, not adding anchors to make their jobs harder. There are at least TEN players on the current roster that have no future with the team and are largely playing like crap this season. According to PuckPedia, between the duds that are playing and the dead money for Abdelkader and Yamamoto, that's FORTY MILLION DOLLARS in salary cap for this season.

1) Start brooming the trash off the roster.
2) Stop buying more of it every summer.
3) Stick to these two options:
* Pony up for a legit NHL player (trade some draft picks instead of browsing the garbage water every July).
* Add a kid or other cost-controlled scrub from Grand Rapids.
4) Fire up the trebuchet to launch this coaching staff into the sun. Get a real staff that will strategize to the strengths of the guys you have and actually hold them accountable when needed.

Waiting for the future is fine. But that doesn't mean you have to stand in manure while you're waiting.

 

[cvaicunas]

Retooling my post:

This season: The only move is to dump LaLonde. If he isn't gone, the goal is clearly to hit the lottery and dump assets at the deadline.


Going into the off season, you assess the core group, contract status and prioritize needs.

CORE ROSTER ((meaning they will not be moved)
Forwards: Larkin, Cat, Raymond, Kasper
D: Mo and Simon
Net: Lyon (Talbot is under contract for another year, but Lyon is a low cost place holder for Cossa.)

COLOR CODE:

RED = gone
Green = sign
Yellow = ????

UFA at season's end:

Kane
Fisher
Motte
Pety
Husso
Lyon
Campbell

RFA:

Ajo
Berggren

25-26 roster adds:

MBN
ND
Wallinder
?? < They really need a #3 on D.

Post 26-27 season moves:

UFAs at end of season:

Tarasenko
Chiarot
Holl
Gustfasson
Talbot

RFA:
Veleno
Kasper
Edvinsson


OFF SEASON MOVES: MANY!

SUMMARY:

Without big moves, this means the core for the next two seasons (based on contract length) and skill are:

NEXT SEASON:

Centers: Larkin, ND, Kasper, Compher
Wings: Cat, Raymond, Copp, Rasmussen, MBN, Tarasenko, Veleno, OPEN
D: Simon, Mo, Chiarot, Gustafsson, Holl, OPEN, OPEN
G: Lyon, Talbot, Cossa


TWO SEASONS FROM NOW
Centers: Larkin, ND, Kasper, Compher
Wings: Cat, Raymond, Copp, Rasmussen, MBN, 3x OPEN
D: Simon, Mo, ASP 4x OPEN
N: Lyon, Cossa

I suggest this is how we look at retooling the team. They won't/can't eat all of these contracts. One or two sure, but they still need to ice a team so I can't see them just blowing up the roster.

Detroit Red Wings Multi-Year Table

A summary of financial breakdowns for the Detroit Red Wings, including multi-year cap totals, player cap hits & free agents.

www.spotrac.com

I agree with all of this. It's not feasible to be retaining all this money to move contracts, when in reality this core's window of competition doesn't even begin to open till after next season. I would rather they wait out most of the Copp's, Chiarot's, and Holl's of the world. If they are blocking kids that are ready to play, either sit them, or waive if possible.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

This team needs to stop letting kids rot away forever and play them. If not deal them. You look around the league and see some kids playing but ours wont play next year cause we cant play 3+ rookies a year? Trade them then before they gave 0 value


Wolf 23 .. cossa will be 23 next November, hes 100% a tandem goalie next season if he continues to dominate in the ahl

Kleven 22 in January ... wallinder 23 in July, we really going to make him wait till 24 after shl service and 2 ahl seasons? If so just deal him if hes not ready

Hutson 20 in February... pellikka 20 in march , your telling me we cant put him on the 3rd pair for year 1 and use him on the powerplay ??

Why cant our guys play??

Mazur 23 in march , soderblom 24 in July, tuomisto 24 next month .... these are guys that legitimately get a shot at a spot here or elsewhere next season . Make room or deal guys

Soderblom,wallinder,tuomisto,mazur and danielson all need looks before the season ends. Maybe lombardi as well who turns 22 in June

Unfortunately most of the ufa's to be are trash and will be hard to deal. We need to look to deal the guys with term

Tarasenko - if we eat 50% to a cash strapped contender we'd be able to move him at this point. We wait a year and he continues to struggle no one will want him

Gustaffson - he has one more year left and 2 million isnt a bad cap hit. He played better prior to Detroit I'm sure hes moveable

Chiarot - he has 1 more year . If we made him available at 50% to a contender who cant go big game hunting in free agency I think he can be moved

Veleno - 1 more year left , former 1st rounder. I'm sure he'll argue with more ice time he can be better. Sure someone would take a flyer

Copp,compher etc.. can be moved but I doubt yzerman moves them at this point a d retains 2 mill for 2-3 yrs

Holl - one year left just buy him out in the off season if no one wants him at 50%

I'd start playing some kids next season and make moves

Cozens for mazur, 2026 1st ,converted to 2027 if top 10, berggen

I dont know if vegas can afford to give another long deal to another dman

Hague for 2025 2nd , chiarot at 50% (replaces hague next season ), + mid prospect... cleveland?

This one can be done now since rangers have lost it and are willing to deal almost anyone

Kakko for veleno, 2026 4th, + something else

Kasper Larkin raymond
Debrincat cozens compher
Soderblom Danielson kakko
Rasmussen copp - free agent/trade
Free agent/trade


Edvinsson seider
Wallinder - free agent/trade vet d
Hague pellikka
Johansson tuomisto/free agent

Talbot - cossa

We'd have potentially 3 dmen basically getting first year nhl experience but what choice do we have ? Bring in same recycled dmen we have now or another 1 year bandaid free agency signing

Anyways I doubt yzerman does all these moves (probably signs more garbage ufa guys)

Point is it's time to let the kids play and learn and have some growing pains , worst case scenario were in the McKenna mix

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

The roster is headed for a massive turnover the next 2-3 seasons, probably only 5-8 players remaining by October 2027. It's inevitable, not just because many of the place-holders are not good enough relative to Cap hit -- most vets signed in Free Agency are overpaid and either mistakes or don't move the needle at all -- but because it was always going to take about this long for Draft picks to be ready to negate the need to sign them in the first place.

The Draft-dependent rebuild has been held back a little by slow-rolling prospects, not finding a single useful regular player (yet) from the massive number of later picks in 2019/20, but it was always going to take longer than many people wanted simply because of Draft position. You aren't often going to get access to franchise-changing NHL ready prospects outside the top three picks. Instead, it was going to depend on numbers. The SY Wings have had eight first-round picks, the first three would go top 3-4 in redrafts, the next five are showing up now or will next season at some point. At least a couple of them look like potential stars, none of them look like the kind of first-round busts/disappointments (Zadina, Ras, Cholowski) that can derail a rebuild. Beyond them is a good group of later drafted prospects from the 2021-24 Drafts, a few of them perhaps showing up next season too. Where are all these guys going to play next year or the year after? In spots left vacant by departing place-holders. There would have to be an obvious immediate roster benefit to expedite those departures with costly retentions/buyouts. It's going to happen anyway, just wait it out until final seasons.

There's been no point yet in going after high end FAs or expensive trade acquisitions. Few would have wanted to come to Detroit anyway or, if acquired, stay. That's not going to change until the team is a lot closer to doing something, and that's only going to happen when the roster has a larger group of its drafted players making an obvious difference. Probably a couple years away yet.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

This team needs to stop letting kids rot away forever and play them. If not deal them. You look around the league and see some kids playing but ours wont play next year cause we cant play 3+ rookies a year? Trade them then before they gave 0 value


Wolf 23 .. cossa will be 23 next November, hes 100% a tandem goalie next season if he continues to dominate in the ahl

Kleven 22 in January ... wallinder 23 in July, we really going to make him wait till 24 after shl service and 2 ahl seasons? If so just deal him if hes not ready

Hutson 20 in February... pellikka 20 in march , your telling me we cant put him on the 3rd pair for year 1 and use him on the powerplay ??

Why cant our guys play??

Mazur 23 in march , soderblom 24 in July, tuomisto 24 next month .... these are guys that legitimately get a shot at a spot here or elsewhere next season . Make room or deal guys

Soderblom,wallinder,tuomisto,mazur and danielson all need looks before the season ends. Maybe lombardi as well who turns 22 in June

Unfortunately most of the ufa's to be are trash and will be hard to deal. We need to look to deal the guys with term

Tarasenko - if we eat 50% to a cash strapped contender we'd be able to move him at this point. We wait a year and he continues to struggle no one will want him

Gustaffson - he has one more year left and 2 million isnt a bad cap hit. He played better prior to Detroit I'm sure hes moveable

Chiarot - he has 1 more year . If we made him available at 50% to a contender who cant go big game hunting in free agency I think he can be moved

Veleno - 1 more year left , former 1st rounder. I'm sure he'll argue with more ice time he can be better. Sure someone would take a flyer

Copp,compher etc.. can be moved but I doubt yzerman moves them at this point a d retains 2 mill for 2-3 yrs

Holl - one year left just buy him out in the off season if no one wants him at 50%

I'd start playing some kids next season and make moves

Cozens for mazur, 2026 1st ,converted to 2027 if top 10, berggen

I dont know if vegas can afford to give another long deal to another dman

Hague for 2025 2nd , chiarot at 50% (replaces hague next season ), + mid prospect... cleveland?

This one can be done now since rangers have lost it and are willing to deal almost anyone

Kakko for veleno, 2026 4th, + something else

Kasper Larkin raymond
Debrincat cozens compher
Soderblom Danielson kakko
Rasmussen copp - free agent/trade
Free agent/trade


Edvinsson seider
Wallinder - free agent/trade vet d
Hague pellikka
Johansson tuomisto/free agent

Talbot - cossa

We'd have potentially 3 dmen basically getting first year nhl experience but what choice do we have ? Bring in same recycled dmen we have now or another 1 year bandaid free agency signing

Anyways I doubt yzerman does all these moves (probably signs more garbage ufa guys)

Point is it's time to let the kids play and learn and have some growing pains , worst case scenario were in the McKenna mix

Cozens sucks man

I’d like to see a lot of dead weight gone this year too. Please get rid of Chiarot, Petry is gone which is good. Get one of Gustafson or holl out of here. Don’t re-sign Kane. I guess tarasenko can stay but he’s washed. Bring in a solid LHD, play wallinder and cossa and hopefully ASP. Like we gotta get some rookies in and we gotta get some vets out. That much is clear. Our best players are by far the younger guys.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Cozens sucks man

I’d like to see a lot of dead weight gone this year too. Please get rid of Chiarot, Petry is gone which is good. Get one of Gustafson or holl out of here. Don’t re-sign Kane. I guess tarasenko can stay but he’s washed. Bring in a solid LHD, play wallinder and cossa and hopefully ASP. Like we gotta get some rookies in and we gotta get some vets out. That much is clear. Our best players are by far the younger guys.

Buffalo sucks

I'm sure Ppl thought reinhart o'Reilly eichel sucked ... he got 30 goals 2 years ago. You think it's impossible he gets back to that??

I'd be depressed as f*** if I was living in buffalo.

Agree with everything else you said. what's the f***en point of drafting all these kids and collecting them forever until they walk away as a 24 year old free agent

Bring the youth movement on. Try and insert some guys with cup experience as we go who can help. That's why I brought up hague, has a ring 25 so can be here longterm and can actually play

Get rid of these bottom 6 guys and old fossils

Tarasenko copp compher veleno chiarot petry holl gustaffson fischer motte can all take a hike

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Buffalo sucks

I'm sure Ppl thought reinhart o'Reilly eichel sucked ... he got 30 goals 2 years ago. You think it's impossible he gets back to that??

I'd be depressed as f*** if I was living in buffalo.

Agree with everything else you said. what's the f***en point of drafting all these kids and collecting them forever until they walk away as a 24 year old free agent

Bring the youth movement on. Try and insert some guys with cup experience as we go who can help. That's why I brought up hague, has a ring 25 so can be here longterm and can actually play

Get rid of these bottom 6 guys and old fossils

Tarasenko copp compher veleno chiarot petry holl gustaffson fischer motte can all take a hike

Cozens is just a low IQ player who got paid off a season of unsustainable shooting percentages. I get your point but I don’t think cozens is like ROR or reinhart.

 

[Frk It]

There is no quick fix. Can't draft, can't develop, can't scout,

Ok so explain Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson…

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Cozens is just a low IQ player who got paid off a season of unsustainable shooting percentages. I get your point but I don’t think cozens is like ROR or reinhart.

I think he can be a good player elsewhere. guess we'll have to wait and see

Ok so explain Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson…

Top 6 players in the draft

We have to start nailing guys in the 2nd rounds and beyond if we want to be good again. It's way past overdue

 

[Gniwder]

3) Stick to these two options:
* Pony up for a legit NHL player (trade some draft picks instead of browsing the garbage water every July).
* Add a kid or other cost-controlled scrub from Grand Rapids.

That sums it up nicely.

It's really pathetic that Stevie signed a bunch of Gagners long term for 5x what he was getting paid. (For those doing the math, Sam had 31 pts his last season with the Wings, Copp had 33 last season. Gag's cap hit was $850k.)

 

[cvaicunas]

I think he can be a good player elsewhere. guess we'll have to wait and see


Top 6 players in the draft

We have to start nailing guys in the 2nd rounds and beyond if we want to be good again. It's way past overdue

Would you prefer they missed out those top selections. That is a possibility. You can't just dismiss their first round successes because they were in the first round. It's still clearly a success story for both scouting, drafting, and development.

 

[roman star]

yzerman knew how long the rebuild would take going in but couldnt say to the public sit tight til 2026/27 . but thats where it stands and this season was designed by yzerman to be the last shot at an early pick , and wonderfully this draft is loaded with centers and left d . best we can hope for is to pick up some extra 3rds or so at the deadline , fair enough by me as all i care about is 2026/27 thru 2036/37 where yzermans big red machine shall march down jefferson multiple times showing off hardware

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

So according to that chart, Patrick Kane is totally worthless.

That matches the eye test I guess.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Random question here (and I'm trying to be sincere here open-minded):

Do we think that if any of our prospects were superior, legitimately superior, not just every fifth game they flash potential, but could over the course of 30 games outperform a veteran, that Yzerman would keep the kid off the team?

Every time one of the kids has proven themselves to be superior to the veteran - and not like "Cossa played 1/2 a game and did better than Husso. Book Ville ass out of here!", the team has been quick to ship out the veteran, or at the very least move the veteran down the lineup.

I get the presence of Copp, Compher, etc. I generally believe they serve a very specific purpose and are doing their jobs. But I see them solely as keep the spot warm until the prospect comes in and boots them out. I don't think it was a coincidence that Ed + Aljo are up and Walman and Mattaa are out. As each of these kids come up and prove they can take the role, I have to imagine the org will be more than happy to move on from them, regardless of their contract situation as none of them are cost prohibitive to move on from at this point.

Do we feel like these kids are superior to the vets we have right now for the role they are asked to play? (not potential or talent, but as is effective player)

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Canucks ‘trying to find a better fit’ for Vincent Desharnais: report

Yesterday, we noted that the trade noise involving Vancouver Canucks d...

canucksarmy.com

Erik Gustafsson swap?

Someone proposed that on the trade board.

Didn't go well.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Random question here (and I'm trying to be sincere here open-minded):

Do we think that if any of our prospects were superior, legitimately superior, not just every fifth game they flash potential, but could over the course of 30 games outperform a veteran, that Yzerman would keep the kid off the team?

Every time one of the kids has proven themselves to be superior to the veteran - and not like "Cossa played 1/2 a game and did better than Husso. Book Ville ass out of here!", the team has been quick to ship out the veteran, or at the very least move the veteran down the lineup.

I get the presence of Copp, Compher, etc. I generally believe they serve a very specific purpose and are doing their jobs. But I see them solely as keep the spot warm until the prospect comes in and boots them out. I don't think it was a coincidence that Ed + Aljo are up and Walman and Mattaa are out. As each of these kids come up and prove they can take the role, I have to imagine the org will be more than happy to move on from them, regardless of their contract situation as none of them are cost prohibitive to move on from at this point.

Do we feel like these kids are superior to the vets we have right now for the role they are asked to play? (not potential or talent, but as is effective player)

Well nobody knows until the prospect plays. He could take someone's job. Or he could suck.