Player Discussion How are you feeling about Matthew Knies these days?

[HamiltonNHL]

Hagel + MAF.

Hard pass, don’t need either

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Another plug we will need to trade as soon as he is up for real money

Plug? He’s a f***ing 21 yo rookie and already knocking grown men on their asses. The guy is going to be 30 goal true PWF at some point in his career.

 

[hamzarocks]

Hard pass, don’t need either

MAF prob not

Hagel is a ppg player making 6-7M who can play up and down the line up

He is a better Zach Hyman

We would love to have either of those 2 guys

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I think what Bennett did to him in the playoffs last year seriously affected this kid psychologically. He has not met expectations at all and he doesn't even really play that physically like he was hyped. He's good at using his size but he's not overly physical. Maybe he has some developing to do. Maybe he was overhyped.

 

[1specter]

1. He was overrated by leaf fans and across the league. People here had him having a 50+ pt season in the top 6.

2. He is a good rookie at 21. Plays a valuable style, has some skill. A guy who can be kept as long as he is cheap if hes only a 30-35 pt guy. Hopefully takes a big step next year

3. As of today, I would have done the reported Knied + 1st deal for Hagel + MAF.

Knies is currently in his D+3 year. Hagel in his D+3 season was still in the WHL, and then played a season in the AHL where he was putting up production similar to Knies' NHL production right now.

Development may not be linear, but Knies is far ahead of Hagel at the same point in their careers. Good to have some perspective. This kid is gonna make a lot of people in this thread look really dumb by next season.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I think what Bennett did to him in the playoffs last year seriously affected this kid psychologically. He has not met expectations at all and he doesn't even really play that physically like he was hyped. He's good at using his size but he's not overly physical. Maybe he has some developing to do. Maybe he was overhyped.

Huh? He’s easily one of our most physical forwards.

And maybe he needs developing to do. Yes of course he does, he’s basically still a child and a rookie to boot.

 

[hamzarocks]

Knies is currently in his D+3 year. Hagel in his D+3 season was still in the WHL, and then played a season in the AHL where he was putting up production similar to Knies' NHL production right now.

Development may not be linear, but Knies is far ahead of Hagel at the same point in their careers. Good to have some perspective. This kid is gonna make a lot of people in this thread look really dumb by next season.

Knies was gifted a spot on the leafs

His down stretches for most other players/rookies would get him sat and sent to the AHL to grow

We havent done that as our LW depth sucks

Knies has been alright, but his rookie season is underwhelming based in the hype and expectations. He has good line mates so production should be a bit higher than it is.

I doubt Knies ends up better than Hagel. Hagel 24 and 25 year old seasons have shown hes a star player. Not a superstsr but a guy who gives you 65-80 pts.

That was Knies ceiing, so its unlikely he ends up bettee than Hagel is now

Hagel is young enough to have been part of our core at 23ish when the bolts added him

Only issue with him is how we afford his 6.5M contract. Otherwise he'd be a core piece for the team

 

[A1LeafNation]

I get so many offers in fantasy for him.

Hits shoots and will score more once he gets use to 82 games.

Classic power forward Leafs have been lacking for 2 decades.

 

[Menzinger]

I think what Bennett did to him in the playoffs last year seriously affected this kid psychologically. He has not met expectations at all and he doesn't even really play that physically like he was hyped. He's good at using his size but he's not overly physical. Maybe he has some developing to do. Maybe he was overhyped.

Part of the issue is some people had completely unrealistic expectations. A second round pick isn't going to have the same type of rookie season as a new former top 10 pick (and that's not including the fact that power forwards tend to take a bit extra time).

He's producing like a good third liner while playing under 15min a game. 90% of his offense is from even strength too

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Hagel is a ppg player

he’s not a solution unless he’ll play D

 

[thewave]

Plug? He’s a f***ing 21 yo rookie and already knocking grown men on their asses. The guy is going to be 30 goal true PWF at some point in his career.

Not meant to disparage him. I like him. We wont be able to afford his ask when he peaks.

 

[1specter]

After a rough January where he only had 3 assists, he finishes February with 9 pts in 12 games. Picking it up and looking more rejuvenated of late, seems like the all-star break was good for him.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Don't really understand the complaints. He's currently 4th in scoring amongst 2021 drafts players, ahead of lotto picks like Beniers and Johnson. Pretty good for a late 2nd round pick who doesn't get powerplay time.

NHL Stats

 

[RunItBackAgain]

3. As of today, I would have done the reported Knied + 1st deal for Hagel + MAF.

As of today? You know that 1st turned into Cowan too. What a dogshit trade for us that would be.

 

[Menzinger]

Not meant to disparage him. I like him. We wont be able to afford his ask when he peaks.

That's a bit premature to say. He's got his elc to finish still plus an rfa deal. We don't have any idea what the team's cap situation will be in say 5-7 years from now, let alone how high the league cap will be

 

[hamzarocks]

As of today? You know that 1st turned into Cowan too. What a dogshit trade for us that would be.

Wasnt the Cowan 1st seperate?

It was our own 1st which went to STL for RoR i think

The Cowan 1st we got from Sandin and we did not own at the time of the deal

Knies + 25th in 2023 for Hagel @1.5M or so for 2021/2022 (25 games + playoffs) + 2022/2023 (full season + playoffs) + MAF would have been an amazing deal for us.

We could probably fit Hagel in around 6M which is a bit less than what he makes (bert makes 5.5M for example)

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Wasnt the Cowan 1st seperate?

It was our own 1st which went to STL for RoR i think

The Cowan 1st we got from Sandin and we did not own at the time of the deal

Knies + 25th in 2023 for Hagel @1.5M or so for 2021/2022 (25 games + playoffs) + 2022/2023 (full season + playoffs) + MAF would have been an amazing deal for us.

We could probably fit Hagel in around 6M which is a bit less than what he makes (bert makes 5.5M for example)

We take Cowan with our 1st either way, 25th or 28th.

 

[hamzarocks]

We take Cowan with our 1st either way, 25th or 28th.

Yeah and we have Cowan + 25 year old PPG player on our team if we dealt Knies when his value was high.

I dont see Knies ceiling as comparable to Hagel.

Hagel is an incredible player. Marchand - lite. He is still on a great deal at 6.5M i think

He would be a core player for us at 23 when we got him in 2021/2022

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I think what Bennett did to him in the playoffs last year seriously affected this kid psychologically. He has not met expectations at all and he doesn't even really play that physically like he was hyped. He's good at using his size but he's not overly physical. Maybe he has some developing to do. Maybe he was overhyped.

Knies is third on the team in hits and has utilized his size a lot while on the forecheck, while protecting the puck, and to separate the puck carrier from the puck. He's not a power forward in the sense of like Wendel Clark or Tom Wilson where he's overly violent, but he very much does play the game in a physical manner. And I'll bet as he matures he'll get nastier, especially if we keep up this attitude and culture the team is currently building.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Yeah and we have Cowan + 25 year old PPG player on our team if we dealt Knies when his value was high.

I dont see Knies ceiling as comparable to Hagel.

Hagel is an incredible player. Marchand - lite. He is still on a great deal at 6.5M i think

He would be a core player for us at 23 when we got him in 2021/2022

I see Knies as a much much better and more impactful player than Hagel. Look at where Hagel was at 21. Knies is going to be better and he's not a rat either, he's a true power forward.

I wouldn't trade Knies for Hagel even if they had the same cap hit let alone adding a first rounder and losing 5M+ in cap space.

Its essentially Knies, a 1st, and Bertuzzi for some smug grinning piece of shit rat who also doesn't elevate in the playoffs. He put up 6 points in 23 games in Tampas last run. Joke.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

He is the type of prospect we have always lacked in developing and possessing, a power forward. It would be idiotic to trade him. A potential complete stud that could be leading the next generation long after Mattews, Marner, and Nylander retire.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Ultimately, making that rumoured deal of Knies + 1st for Hagel + Fleury would've been fine. I still wouldn't have done it but Hagel is clearly showing to be a great offensive player. Though I don't think his incessant whining and dorky voice would play as well here as it is in Tampa where he's more out of the spotlight and the refs don't automatically have a vendetta against him. Hagel also doesn't play as physically as Knies, laying only 41 hits so far this season compared to Knies' 122.

I think writing off Knies as if he'll never reach the current ceiling Hagel has achieved is very premature. Knies is on pace for 37 points as a 21 year old rookie. A similar rookie season to Nichushkin and a similar sophomore season to Meier, both of whom I think are good modern comparables for Knies. Hell Knies is even hitting more than both of those guys did at that stage of their careers so he's ahead of the curve there. I don't see any reason why Knies can't be at least a 50-60 point player.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Ultimately, making that rumoured deal of Knies + 1st for Hagel + Fleury would've been fine. I still wouldn't have done it but Hagel is clearly showing to be a great offensive player. Though I don't think his incessant whining and dorky voice would play as well here as it is in Tampa where he's more out of the spotlight and the refs don't automatically have a vendetta against him. Hagel also doesn't play as physically as Knies, laying only 41 hits so far this season compared to Knies' 122.

I think writing off Knies as if he'll never reach the current ceiling Hagel has achieved is very premature. Knies is on pace for 37 points as a 21 year old rookie. A similar rookie season to Nichushkin and a similar sophomore season to Meier, both of whom I think are good modern comparables for Knies. Hell Knies is even hitting more than both of those guys did at that stage of their careers so he's ahead of the curve there. I don't see any reason why Knies can't be at least a 50-60 point player.

People would need to absolute idiots to write off Knies offensively based upon his rookie season, christ.

 

[hamzarocks]

I see Knies as a much much better and more impactful player than Hagel. Look at where Hagel was at 21. Knies is going to be better and he's not a rat either, he's a true power forward.

I wouldn't trade Knies for Hagel even if they had the same cap hit let alone adding a first rounder and losing 5M+ in cap space.

Its essentially Knies, a 1st, and Bertuzzi for some smug grinning piece of shit rat who also doesn't elevate in the playoffs. He put up 6 points in 23 games in Tampas last run. Joke.

Your being a homer/hater if you really believe that lol

Would you say no to Marchand if he hadnt kicked our ass 3 times?

Hagel is better at every facet of hockey than Knies other than being 6'3 or whatever knies is.

Hagel had a bad run in 2022 but was tampas best player last year and the only forward who really was a threat to the leafs.

Knies has no stand out tools that makr him projected to be better than Hagel

Worse skater, worse shot, worse hands, worse IQ, etc etc.

Hagel was a late bloomer. So was Point, Palat, Killorn, Kucherov and a lot of players within Tampa Bay. Knies will be in tough to compare to any of those guys

This is like wanting to keep 2008 Nikolai Kulimen over 2008 Jeff Carter/Mike Richards.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Your being a homer/hater if you really believe that lol

Would you say no to Marchand if he hadnt kicked our ass 3 times?

Hagel is better at every facet of hockey than Knies other than being 6'3 or whatever knies is.

Hagel had a bad run in 2022 but was tampas best player last year and the only forward who really was a threat to the leafs.

Knies has no stand out tools that makr him projected to be better than Hagel

Worse skater, worse shot, worse hands, worse IQ, etc etc.

Hagel was a late bloomer. So was Point, Palat, Killorn, Kucherov and a lot of players within Tampa Bay. Knies will be in tough to compare to any of those guys

This is like wanting to keep 2008 Nikolai Kulimen over 2008 Jeff Carter/Mike Richards.

No you’re just dead wrong about Knies sorry. He has every tool in the bag. We’re so far apart on this we should stop exchanging about it. Good day.