How aggressive should the Leafs be at the deadline? Whimper or All In?

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I was totally in the merge when it happened.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Bad news Tre.

This is the Toronto Maple Leafs. All moves (or lack thereof) are headline grabbing.

 

[notbias]

Please, please, please, just don't send 6 picks out the door and the best playing coming back is Dewar.

I feel like he should try to make an upgrade (3C is obvious) or don't do anything... we have 10 #6 Ds and a million bottom 6 forwards.

I'd be onboard with trying out L. Schenn, the Rielly-Schenn pairing was arguably the best defensive pairing in the playoffs that year (they had insane numbers), and the Tanev-McCabe pairing has been good, so it'd be nice to keep them together.

 

[kevsh]

A #1 d-man isn't a trade deadline move in most cases, it's a "wait until July and see if Ekblad doesn't re-sign" move (he likely will, it was just an example).

Or get the next closest thing with Jones @$2.5M retained for a first and (likely) Woll, except the Panthers beat us to it.

Like Treliving suggests, the East isn't as open as some believe (and I agree, the Panthers and Bolts are both very strong as well as the Caps - The Leafs could still drop as low as #3 in the division which pretty much erases any notion that they are a legit SC "favourite" or even top contender) so the smart thing is to be smart about it.

They absolutely need a 3C, no one disputes that. If the price for Laughton is reasonable, then that's a sensical pickup. A dependable (play and health-wise) 3rd pairing veteran d-man would also make sense.

After that, not sure what else is out there? And by Treliving's own comments he doesn't sound like he's in the mindset to go all-in, unless as was pointed out earlier he's just being coy. I doubt it.

I think he has concerns over Matthews' health and whether this team really has figured it out yet. No doubt they are better, the best goalie tandem since forever, solid blueline etc., but will the big boys finally step up and deliver this spring? As of today, does anyone really believe they can get by the Panthers, as they almost certainly will have to to get out of the division? Would say, the Schenn brothers be enough to tilt that matchup in the Leafs favour?

 

[Budz]

While I don't think he is a scrub, it isn't like he stepped up big in their playoff run, he produces terribly in the playoffs, and yes there is more to hockey, but a 3C who doesn't produce a lot and is making 6.5x3 at the age of 33 is not ideal, there are likely cheaper character guys if that's all we care about.

Saying all this, I rarely see Schenn play, so maybe there is an upside, but his best years are behind him.

What big goals has he scored? He has 11 goals in 75 playoff games, should be easy to figure this out.

Marner has a higher GPG in the playoffs and people hate him for how little he scores.

Had the dagger goal in game 7 of the SCF vs Boston. Driving the lane and burying a nice feed from Tarasenko.

 

[notbias]

Had the dagger goal in game 7 of the SCF vs Boston. Driving the lane and burying a nice feed from Tarasenko.

Can you name a few? I'd like to see a trend before someone is considered a big game player.

 

[Nineteen67]

No. They are certainly a different group come playoff time and struggle scoring

Maybe that’s just what they are when teams are more focussed on the details of the game.

 

[Budz]

Can you name a few? I'd like to see a trend before someone is considered a big game player.

He scored the opening goal in game 1 too - iirc. He has many career OT goals. We aren’t trying to add a 40 goal player.
So sick of goals/assists as the “go to”.

I’m not going to waste time explaining hockey. Or that “big game players” means more than just points.

This whole convo is just like the hotshot on my kids team. Amazing talent, skills for days. Hits our scoresheet every game. Won’t play defense, won’t pass in critical moments. Doesn’t make players around him better.

He gets into Mommy and Daddy’s Mercedes after the game talks about his 2 cookies and 1 apple and complains about the team sucks because we lost 6-5.

Yet, no ever mentions in his car rides he was a minus 2.

I will take a B Schenn as my 3C any day.

 

[Nineteen67]

Some of our fans calling B. Schenn a scrub is the typical nonsense that makes this place unbearable at times and devoid of any intelligent discussion.

I understand the cap hit is high.

I understand he’s not going to put up 70 points in a year.

What he is:
*Durable (doesn’t miss many games)
*Heavy-plays 200 feet, checks, moves the puck, sticks up for team mates, fights and scores big goals in big games.
*Experienced-He won’t shy away in the playoffs when things get tight.
*Know our system. Coach loves him

He allows us to have 3 lines that can score. I think he would be perfect for Nylander.

Obviously, we need to figure out compensation. A late first round pick and one of prospects who won’t help us for a couple years is just fine by me - as long as there is Retention or other contracts going back to the Blues.

Calling him a scrub - is frankly ridiculous. There is more to hockey than just goals/assists.

He doesn’t score. He’d be a great 4 th line C if they could add a top end C

 

[notbias]

He scored the opening goal in game 1 too - iirc. He has many career OT goals. We aren’t trying to add a 40 goal player.
So sick of goals/assists as the “go to”.

I’m not going to waste time explaining hockey. Or that “big game players” means more than just points.

This whole convo is just like the hotshot on my kids team. Amazing talent, skills for days. Hits our scoresheet every game. Won’t play defense, won’t pass in critical moments. Doesn’t make players around him better.

He gets into Mommy and Daddy’s Mercedes after the game talks about his 2 cookies and 1 apple and complains about the team sucks because we lost 6-5.

Yet, no ever mentions in his car rides he was a minus 2.

I will take a B Schenn as my 3C any day.

You could have just said no...

 

[Budz]

You could have just said no...

Oh…good one.

 

[Sypher04]

A #1 d-man isn't a trade deadline move in most cases, it's a "wait until July and see if Ekblad doesn't re-sign" move (he likely will, it was just an example).

As a general rule this tends to be true.

Like Treliving suggests, the East isn't as open as some believe (and I agree, the Panthers and Bolts are both very strong as well as the Caps - The Leafs could still drop as low as #3 in the division which pretty much erases any notion that they are a legit SC "favourite" or even top contender) so the smart thing is to be smart about it.

Treliving is just managing expectation because it doesn’t really benefit them at all to have people acting like they are going to cake walk through the East, but when people say the East is wide open, I don’t think that’s the insinuation being made. Everyone know there are still very good teams in the East, however, objectively the conference has weakened a bit vs last year at the top end. It’s deeper however

Even the top 3 of the Atlantic are all heating up now.

If the two teams that could potentially bump us to third in Atlantic, weren’t Florida and Tampa Bay, you might have a point with the bolded, but they are.

They absolutely need a 3C, no one disputes that. If the price for Laughton is reasonable, then that's a sensical pickup. A dependable (play and health-wise) 3rd pairing veteran d-man would also make sense.

Not sure on Laughton myself. I’ve heard he largely plays the wing now. And I just don’t expect Philly to be reasonable on their ask

After that, not sure what else is out there? And by Treliving's own comments he doesn't sound like he's in the mindset to go all-in, unless as was pointed out earlier he's just being coy. I doubt it.

While either could be true, it doesn’t really serve Treliving to tell the media they are going to be aggressive. Especially if he strikes out.

If he keeps expectation low, then he either gets to a) make a big splash and surprise everyone in a good way or b) if he strikes out he pivots to a lesser add and everyone just says, he did what he said he would.

I think he has concerns over Matthews' health and whether this team really has figured it out yet. No doubt they are better, the best goalie tandem since forever, solid blueline etc., but will the big boys finally step up and deliver this spring? As of today, does anyone really believe they can get by the Panthers, as they almost certainly will have to to get out of the division? Would say, the Schenn brothers be enough to tilt that matchup in the Leafs favour?

One would assume he has to have concerns regarding Matthews. Then again, he has the medical information, so who knows.

Not upgrading the team because the core may not show up is the bigger risk and not really an option, because if they core does shows up and he doesn’t fix the obvious holes, it’s now his fault when they don’t win and you’ve wasted a year needlessly. The risk to acquiring players and the core letting you down is there, but easy to mitigate by acquiring players with at least one more year (and 2 playoff runs) on their contract.

The Panthers are entirely beatable. I’m not sure why you are suggesting they aren’t. There is no one in the Atlantic clearly better than them or that the Leafs could not get by.

 

[Hellcat]

I think Tanev's brother is coming over.

 

[Sypher04]

I think Tanev's brother is coming over.

I’m actually curious where we’d see him in the lineup. I’m not necessarily against it, at 50% retention (non-negotiable), IF we also get a center.

He does seem like the kind of player that could maybe play the Hyman lite role for a couple skilled players.

Feels like we could use one more of those. McMann, Knies and Tanev would be the three. Then you put one of 34, 88 and 16 on each line. JT goes with Mitch. Acquired middle 6 C goes with Nylander.

Knies - Matthews - ?????
Tanev - Tavares - Marner
McMann - ????? - Nylander
Lorentz - Kampf - ?????

Just spitballing

To be clear to anyone wondering, no, I so not see him better than McMann, the way I did this is for balance, and also because I feel like McMann’s speed makes him a better fit with Nylander, while Tanev plays the game at a pace between JT and Mitch. Then again, maybe that could also be an argument to reverse them as well

 

[AvroArrow]

A top 4 dman is the greatest needed. Preferably a 1st pairing RHD. Parayko is a pipedream as he has a full no trade clause. I would look at Murphy in Chicago and take a run at Dobson. Both have salaries where the Leafs would not need to retain. They both would bump OEL down to the 3rd pairing where he shoudl be.

Dobson would be the dream, likely costs us Cowan + 1st + something. I would do it, it's one of our biggest needs, and now with Tanev out (day-to-day) just shows us how important having depth is. He is a legitimate top pairing D with size. Would be the perfect fit here.

And he's an RFA, we have money coming off the books to re-sign him as well. If not, we don't just lose him, we'll get some assets back.

 

[Hellcat]

I’m actually curious where we’d see him in the lineup. I’m not necessarily against it, at 50% retention (non-negotiable), IF we also get a center.

He does seem like the kind of player that could maybe play the Hyman lite role for a couple skilled players.

Feels like we could use one more of those. McMann, Knies and Tanev would be the three. Then you put one of 34, 88 and 16 on each line. JT goes with Mitch. Acquired middle 6 C goes with Nylander.

Knies - Matthews - ?????
Tanev - Tavares - Marner
McMann - ????? - Nylander
Lorentz - Kampf - ?????

Just spitballing

LW, 4th line, shot blocker is really all I know.

Tanev, Murphy seems to be the type of low risk move that Tree would do.

Wild speculation on my part but I think Tre will focus on PK and PP specialists, some rumors that Marchessault might be avail, contract and age are not great but he is a playoff performer.

 

[Racer88]

The reigning cup champs just got Seth Jones……..what have we done so far?

 

[BrannigansLaw]

While I don't think he is a scrub, it isn't like he stepped up big in their playoff run, he produces terribly in the playoffs, and yes there is more to hockey, but a 3C who doesn't produce a lot and is making 6.5x3 at the age of 33 is not ideal, there are likely cheaper character guys if that's all we care about.

Saying all this, I rarely see Schenn play, so maybe there is an upside, but his best years are behind him.

What big goals has he scored? He has 11 goals in 75 playoff games, should be easy to figure this out.

Marner has a higher GPG in the playoffs and people hate him for how little he scores.

Scored in Game 7 of the Cup Final in 2019. Other than that, not sure myself but I would definitely take him if the Blues retained some of his salary.

 

[seanlinden]

A #1 d-man isn't a trade deadline move in most cases, it's a "wait until July and see if Ekblad doesn't re-sign" move (he likely will, it was just an example).

Or get the next closest thing with Jones @$2.5M retained for a first and (likely) Woll, except the Panthers beat us to it.

Like Treliving suggests, the East isn't as open as some believe (and I agree, the Panthers and Bolts are both very strong as well as the Caps - The Leafs could still drop as low as #3 in the division which pretty much erases any notion that they are a legit SC "favourite" or even top contender) so the smart thing is to be smart about it.

They absolutely need a 3C, no one disputes that. If the price for Laughton is reasonable, then that's a sensical pickup. A dependable (play and health-wise) 3rd pairing veteran d-man would also make sense.

After that, not sure what else is out there? And by Treliving's own comments he doesn't sound like he's in the mindset to go all-in, unless as was pointed out earlier he's just being coy. I doubt it.

I think he has concerns over Matthews' health and whether this team really has figured it out yet. No doubt they are better, the best goalie tandem since forever, solid blueline etc., but will the big boys finally step up and deliver this spring? As of today, does anyone really believe they can get by the Panthers, as they almost certainly will have to to get out of the division? Would say, the Schenn brothers be enough to tilt that matchup in the Leafs favour?

Cannot say that I agree with the bolded. The Leafs have a bunch of 3rd pairing defencemen already. Getting Joel Edmundson to knock Simon Benoit out of the lineup isnt the type of move that is going to "move a needle" for us. Even Scott Laughton, sure he's more suited to the position than Max Domi, but he's still not going to "allow" the Leafs to roll 3 lines effectively.

You add Brock Nelson or Brayden Schenn in the middle of the ice, and that's a difference-maker IMO that makes us a matchup nightmare.

On D, you look at the succes Rielly & Luke Schenn had a few years ago, and PERHAPS you can be a bit more low-key as long as it's an impeccable fit to play on the right side with Mo, keep McCabe-Tanev as a pair, and use OEL in a 3rd pair capacity. Maybe Connor Murphy out of Chicago.

Then of course the biggest challenge, if your targets are Brayden Schenn and Connor Murphy, you don't have the cap flexibiltiy to do that.

 

[ULF_55]

With Tkachuk's Cap Space freed up, perhaps it is time to sell?

Treliving doesn't think he can do very much, so maybe he's already resigned.

 

[Donnie740]

My ideal target is a 2c to push Tavares down to 3c.

Leafs can’t afford that. Not enough cap space and not enough available assets.

 

[stats1]

With Tkachuk's Cap Space freed up, perhaps it is time to sell?

Treliving doesn't think he can do very much, so maybe he's already resigned.

Sell?? What are you talking about. So Florida gets Jones so Treliving should do nothing?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

While I don't think he is a scrub, it isn't like he stepped up big in their playoff run, he produces terribly in the playoffs, and yes there is more to hockey, but a 3C who doesn't produce a lot and is making 6.5x3 at the age of 33 is not ideal, there are likely cheaper character guys if that's all we care about.

Saying all this, I rarely see Schenn play, so maybe there is an upside, but his best years are behind him.

What big goals has he scored? He has 11 goals in 75 playoff games, should be easy to figure this out.

Marner has a higher GPG in the playoffs and people hate him for how little he scores.

I watch a fair bit of the Blues and imo Schenn would be a poor choice.
Not only a bad decision now but one that will look even worse every year after.

Fingers crossed Tre isn’t that stupid.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I think Tanev's brother is coming over.

Source?!

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The reigning cup champs just got Seth Jones……..what have we done so far?

the usual: expecting the world to deliver us a cup