TV: House of the Dragon (HBO) - Season 2 - Summer 2024, please use spoil tags where it makes sense

[TCTC]

I really don't get this. How is her character ruined exactly? It's something that has background development through multiple scenes dating back to last season when she learned that Aegon raped a maid. It's shown when she has multiple opportunities to show love and support for her son and can't bring herself to do it. It's shown when she cracks at the high council listening to Aemond making his first round of decisionds as acting king and then again when she's furious at him for trying to pull the peaceful and traumatized Haelena into the war.

Like is your standard for her being ruined that a mother should never be willing to offer up her children to be sacrificed? Because you weren't supposed to watch that scene and think what Alicent was doing is commendable or redeeming. The defining trait of her character is hypocritical conflict between her supposed adherence to honor and virtue and behaviors attitudes that run entirely contrary to her supposed beliefs. E.g. she wants to be or at least wants to be seen as a good person but she's not.

She's as morally bankrupt and self interested as many GOT and HotD characters before her. Like that's what I don't get. Whether it was hearing what she wants to hear in the interest of having her family have ultimate power and standing or being willing to offer up Aemond and Aegon as sacrifices so she can and her daughter and father be free and safe from the conflict she played a part in starting, Alicent has always been defined by acting in her own self interest which is not weird on the world of Westeros. Sure you can compare her as a mother and say "Cersei would never do something like this" but Cersei also helped reap all that her children sowed in a different way (e.g. not raising Joffrey better and encouraging some of his shittier perspectives so that he ended up an assassination target; or having her fight for power over the High Sparrow and Tyrells ending in the elimination of all of them and causing Tommen's suicide).

Alicent doing what she did doesn't "ruin" the character, it just reinforces that people in this universe (highborns especially) tend to do morally dubious to awful things (see Stannis Baratheon sacrificing his own daughter for an advantage). The list of characters who do what is morally expected or appropriate consistently across both shows is very short.

I don't know, to me it feels like they're trying to portray her as a sympathetic character. It's clear now that Aemond is supposed to be the villain now and that to me feels a bit cheap.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I don't know, to me it feels like they're trying to portray her as a sympathetic character. It's clear now that Aemond is supposed to be the villain now and that to me feels a bit cheap.

You seem to be trying to fit these characters in boxes. Sympathetic mother, villian, etc. This show doesn't do that. You can make an argument that nearly all of these characters fall into villain from Alicent to Aegon to Aemond to Rhaenyra to Daemon at different points. And at times they all fall into protagonist or hero roles at other times.

Aemond was bullied relentlessly as youngster, hell it continued into the time when Aegon was named King as seen in the brothel scene. Despite his best attempts to show how brave and dedicated he is by claiming Vhagar and his impressive work as a swordsman he is still mistreated. He's basically the GoT version of the small kid who was bullied his whole life who then spends 5 hours a day in the gym to get jacked. But when that doesn't work to get him the respect he thinks he deserves he decides to shoot up a school, in this case using Vhagar to kill at will. Is it a "villain" role? I mean yes of course, but in reality he's been failed by everyone around him, from his mother and father to his siblings. It's more of a tragedy then anything else.

Most of the characters are like this. It's not black and white. This is what people are like, no one is all good, no one is all bad.

 

[HanSolo]

I don't know, to me it feels like they're trying to portray her as a sympathetic character. It's clear now that Aemond is supposed to be the villain now and that to me feels a bit cheap.

I don't think that's what they're trying to do at all. They made a distinct point to shine a light on her hypocrisy with the Criston Cole affair. They made a point to show that Alicent could not work up the motherly instinct to care for Aegon when he was crying. They've shown time and time again that she's coming to grips with the awful consequences of what she set in motion. I don't think the show is trying to paint her as sympathetic. She's shown as cognizant of all she is reaping from what she sowed.

She didn't go into that meeting ready to sacrifice Aegon and Aemond up. She didn't want to do it but in the end, in the interest of getting away from the toxicity of King's Landing, in the interest of living safe and free, and in the interest of protecting Haelena and Otto, she agreed to the unthinkable for a mother.

You're not supposed to watch that from the team Black perspective and think "oh she's doing the right thing finally." it's more nuanced than that and regardless of which side you're on, it should be morally appalling that a mother would willingly and knowingly offer up her children to be slaughtered. You can understand the reasons why, but you're not supposed to think she did something virtuous. She was between a rock and a hard place and chose her best interests over protecting her children.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So they confirmed the series is going to be finished after season 4.

That's... Really surprising to me. Especially with how slow and dragged out Season 2 was. And knowing Season 3 and 4 are also only going to be 8 episodes... Only 16 episodes left and man there's a f***ing lot of shit they need to cover in only 16 episodes.


For as slow as season 2 was, I almost wonder if the final 2 seasons end up being too fast, and not enough character focus to deal with the fallout and consequences of everything that unfolds.


I really thought with the way season 2 went, it was setting up for 5 seasons for sure, or at the very minimum back to 10 episodes for Season 3 and 4.

 

[MadDevil]

Honestly, the execs over there need to get their heads out of their asses. The first season of this show was well liked and seemed to wash the bitter taste of the final few seasons of GOT out, so hey let's cut the budget for the next season and cut out 1/5 of the episodes! Surely that won't result in our show runners needing to change their plans and lead to a disappointing finale, potentially throwing away some of the good will we earned after the first season! It's not like cutting season lengths and forcing things to be rushed has had negative results in this franchise before...

 

[archangel2]

So they confirmed the series is going to be finished after season 4.

That's... Really surprising to me. Especially with how slow and dragged out Season 2 was. And knowing Season 3 and 4 are also only going to be 8 episodes... Only 16 episodes left and man there's a f***ing lot of shit they need to cover in only 16 episodes.


For as slow as season 2 was, I almost wonder if the final 2 seasons end up being too fast, and not enough character focus to deal with the fallout and consequences of everything that unfolds.


I really thought with the way season 2 went, it was setting up for 5 seasons for sure, or at the very minimum back to 10 episodes for Season 3 and 4.

I think it is a financial thing. I do not think house of dragon has had the same impact as Game of Thrones or The Sopranos for HBO--both shows had people subscribing to the channel just for the show. That is why they are making two other shows in the same universe hoping that they will bring new subscribers

 

[Peasy]

I think it is a financial thing. I do not think house of dragon has had the same impact as Game of Thrones or The Sopranos for HBO--both shows had people subscribing to the channel just for the show. That is why they are making two other shows in the same universe hoping that they will bring new subscribers

Way to much CGI and dragons fighting required to do this story justice it is seeming.

People keep expecting a bunch of battles next season but like how? They obviously don't have some ridiculous budget where they can have 6 legit battles in a single season. You'll likely get 1 or 2 major ones and the rest will just be talked about or briefly shown the main thing that happened.

Just lol. WB/Discovery acquisition of HBO going to kill it. They're being squeezed by the capitalists now.

 

[Saskatoon]

So they confirmed the series is going to be finished after season 4.

That's... Really surprising to me. Especially with how slow and dragged out Season 2 was. And knowing Season 3 and 4 are also only going to be 8 episodes... Only 16 episodes left and man there's a f***ing lot of shit they need to cover in only 16 episodes.


For as slow as season 2 was, I almost wonder if the final 2 seasons end up being too fast, and not enough character focus to deal with the fallout and consequences of everything that unfolds.


I really thought with the way season 2 went, it was setting up for 5 seasons for sure, or at the very minimum back to 10 episodes for Season 3 and 4.

Did they confirm seasons 3 and 4 are also only 8 episodes? Not saying you are wrong just want to confirm.

With Dragons though I do think this story will have an abrupt ending - once one side has all the Dragons there isn't really a war anymore.

 

[archangel2]

Did they confirm seasons 3 and 4 are also only 8 episodes? Not saying you are wrong just want to confirm.

With Dragons though I do think this story will have an abrupt ending - once one side has all the Dragons there isn't really a war anymore.

I saw 8 as well

 

[Neutrinos]

I thought the entire character of Ulf seemed forced and out of place in the episode... bordering on cartoonish at times, I was half expecting him to begin picking his teeth with a bone or slobbering wine down his chin while he drank...

The problem is, we had just had a scene with him acting like a buffoon in front of the Prince, which would've been a touching moment if he'd followed up the hug with "I'm your great uncle!" (or whatever his relationship to the boy is), but instead he slinks off seemingly embarrassed only to act a fool minutes later while seated with the Queen... I even thought it odd he was permitted to be seated opposite her at the table

And why is nobody speaking about who their parents are?

Why hasn't Ulf revealed how he's related to the Rhaenyra?

Why did the rider with Seasmoke not tell Rhaenyra that Corlys is his father?

Why did Corlys not tell Rhaenyra that the new rider was his son?


Besides that, I really enjoyed the episode...

The first half hour had some excellent scenes and dialogue between characters, and the 2nd half of the episode was beautifully shot, and did a wonderful job of positioning the pieces on the board as we head into the back half of the story

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I thought the entire character of Ulf seemed forced and out of place in the episode... bordering on cartoonish at times, I was half expecting him to begin picking his teeth with a bone or slobbering wine down his chin while he drank...

The problem is, we had just had a scene with him acting like a buffoon in front of the Prince, which would've been touching moment if he'd followed up the hug with "I'm your great uncle!" (or whatever his relationship to the boy is), but instead he slinks off seemingly embarrassed only to act a fool minutes later while seated with the Queen

And why is nobody speaking about who their parents are?

Why hasn't Ulf revealed how he's related to the Rhaenyra?

Why did the rider with Seasmoke not tell Rhaenyra that Corlys is his father?

Why did Corlys not tell Rhaenyra that the new rider was his son?


Besides that, I really enjoyed the episode...

The first half hour had some excellent scenes and dialogue between characters, and the 2nd half of the episode was beautifully shot, and did a wonderful job of positioning the pieces on the board as we head into the back half of the story

Ulf was definitely the worst character. Yea i'm all for some comical relief, but like you said, he felt forced.

 

[HanSolo]

I thought the entire character of Ulf seemed forced and out of place in the episode... bordering on cartoonish at times, I was half expecting him to begin picking his teeth with a bone or slobbering wine down his chin while he drank...

The problem is, we had just had a scene with him acting like a buffoon in front of the Prince, which would've been touching moment if he'd followed up the hug with "I'm your great uncle!" (or whatever his relationship to the boy is), but instead he slinks off seemingly embarrassed only to act a fool minutes later while seated with the Queen

And why is nobody speaking about who their parents are?

Why hasn't Ulf revealed how he's related to the Rhaenyra?

Why did the rider with Seasmoke not tell Rhaenyra that Corlys is his father?

Why did Corlys not tell Rhaenyra that the new rider was his son?


Besides that, I really enjoyed the episode...

The first half hour had some excellent scenes and dialogue between characters, and the 2nd half of the episode was beautifully shot, and did a wonderful job of positioning the pieces on the board as we head into the back half of the story

I mean. It's one thing for Ulf to just be some commoner with the same potential penalties for being disrespectful in the presence of a King. It's quite another to have a bond with a dragon that can scorch your enemies when comporting yourself in front of a Queen that needs you.

As for his lineage, I think the implication is that he was actually telling the truth about being a bastard brother to Viserys and Daemon. As to the rest, the lineage kind of didn't matter at that point. They added three dragonriders to the roster. Them confirming how they have Targaryen blood either services satisfaction of Rhaenyra's theory which doesn't matter anymore or it would matter if Rhaenyra was looking for more dragonriders which it seems she isn't.

 

[Saskatoon]

Ulf was definitely the worst character. Yea i'm all for some comical relief, but like you said, he felt forced.

He made me uncomfortable - possibly bad writing. If he turns side or runs off and does his own thing it would make sense they are setting us up to not like him

 

[Rob]

I think it is a financial thing. I do not think house of dragon has had the same impact as Game of Thrones or The Sopranos for HBO--both shows had people subscribing to the channel just for the show. That is why they are making two other shows in the same universe hoping that they will bring new subscribers

Agreed. People blame bad writing but I think it is because so much of the season was rushed because it was only eight episodes. Which is due to budget constraints.

 

[John Price]

Not a Blog | George R.R. Martin

George R. R. Martin says he's writing a blog post on 'everything that’s gone wrong with HOUSE OF THE DRAGON'


Does he not have creative control or something? Why is the man who created the universe blogging about what's wrong with his product? You can fix it. lol

 

[Osprey]

I finally finished Season 2 yesterday and didn't want to bump the thread, but now that it's already been bumped, I might as well give my thoughts.

I was initially into it and watching every Sunday, but started to lose interest halfway through and got behind, largely because I went on vacation, but I wasn't too eager to catch up even once I got back. I don't mind politics over action, but there was little scheming or power struggling. It felt like all parties just retreated to their camps and waited out the rest of the season. Daemon's plot was tedious to me and felt contrived to give him screen time and something to do. It felt like the writers wanted us to wonder if he was going against Rhaenyra, but I never really bought that, so it wasn't a surprise to me when it turned out that he wasn't. In general, that character was wasted this season, IMO. The dragon rider plot wasn't terribly interesting to me, either, partly because it was predictable. The season kept checking in on two characters who seemed to have nothing to do with the plot, and we didn't know a thing about any of other assembled nobodies, so it was obvious who the two rider-less dragons would go to.

The finale was rather disappointing. I agree with whoever it was that said that it would've been better to end with the first attack of the war. A notable character (like, say, Jace) could've died to end the season on a brutal note and declare "it's on." I guess that that would be a repeat of Season 1's finale, but it would've been better than ending with just mobilization. A couple of things also struck me as a little strange. The first was Daemon literally bending the knee. That seemed unnecessary (since when does a consort kneel before his/her spouse?) and out of character, especially considering that he stormed out of the room the last time that he saw Rhaenyra. I expected him to pledge his support, just not like that. The other was Rhaenyra and Alicent agreeing to "a son for a son" when Aegon and Aemond both dying will be two for one. It just seemed a little strange that neither of them addressed that.

Anyways, I'm only critical because Season 1 was so good and even the first half of Season 2 was good. The second half wasn't bad, just not up to the same level of what came before, IMO. It was still a lot better than the first two episodes of The Rings of Power Season 2, though, so nothing changed there. I still find HotD at its worst a lot more watchable than RoP.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Not a Blog | George R.R. Martin

George R. R. Martin says he's writing a blog post on 'everything that’s gone wrong with HOUSE OF THE DRAGON'


Does he not have creative control or something? Why is the man who created the universe blogging about what's wrong with his product? You can fix it. lol

Guy is a joke. Finish your f***ing books already.

 

[MadDevil]

Not a Blog | George R.R. Martin

George R. R. Martin says he's writing a blog post on 'everything that’s gone wrong with HOUSE OF THE DRAGON'


Does he not have creative control or something? Why is the man who created the universe blogging about what's wrong with his product? You can fix it. lol

Unless he's referring more to production issues? If it's over creative issues he has nobody to blame but himself. He stopped writing the books and if he doesn't have creative control then he's an idiot. Either way, finish the damn books George!

 

[Rob]

I don't think even George can force HBO to increase the budget.

 

[Neil Racki]

Anyways, I'm only critical because Season 1 was so good and even the first half of Season 2 was good. The second half wasn't bad, just not up to the same level of what came before, IMO. It was still a lot better than the first two episodes of The Rings of Power Season 2, though, so nothing changed there. I still find HotD at its worst a lot more watchable than RoP.

Well said. Wife and I also fell behind and didnt have a huge urge to catch up. Finished ep 8 on Friday and it was a dud for us for all the reasons you said.

S2E4 should have been the S2 finale.

Season 3 wont start filming until 2025 ... meh

 

[Peasy]

https://archive.is/M8fN3

Haven't read personally, apparently he spoils some major things that are suppose to come next season. Seems like the blog was only up for about an hour before it was taken down. I assume people from HBO asked him wtf he was doing.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Martin is a joke

HBO should take legal action against him and look to remove him from future input in any properties they are developing from his works

Real POS move to undercut all the people involved in developing HOD

Also not following books, etc in some instances makes for better decisions

Look at 1995 Outer Limits Sand Kings adaption which was much better than Martin's original story and earned praise and awards for its quality

 

[Romang67]

Does this mean that he will stop spending his time on spinoff work and go back to writing Winds? Jon Snow has been dying in the snow for 13 years.

No? Alrighty then.

 

[Hivemind]

Does this mean that he will stop spending his time on spinoff work and go back to writing Winds? Jon Snow has been dying in the snow for 13 years.

No? Alrighty then.

No, football season is starting. He needs to blog about the Jets

 

[MadDevil]

Martin needs to shut the f*** up and try finishing one of his books (I don't even care if it's Winds of Winter or the second volume of Fire and Blood). If he had that much of a issue with how they're writing it, then f***ing say something, fight for the version he thinks is better. Unless he gave away creative control, in which case it's his own damn fault. He just comes off as a whiny old shit who is bitter his creation has moved on without him.