Movies: Horror Movie Discussion

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Some more B-goodies (or not)...

Spontaneous Combustion (Hooper, 1989) - What a weird career this guy had. In previous posts on these boards, I called him "very limited" and "a shit director". I had seen this film when it got out on video and hated it. I didn't remember anything except the moment where John Landis is attacked through the telephone, which was stupid then and still is. I thought I'd give it another chance, because spontaneous human combustion is a terrifying idea in itself and shouldn't need a lot to be an efficient base for a horror tale. Brad Dourif seems to think Hooper had a great love story filmed, but that the producers ruined it. I call bullshit. There's a rough cut available on YouTube - it's incomplete, but not better. In fact, Dourif's last scene is so terrible he should be grateful this never got out. Either versions are unwatchable, and I'm not confident Hooper could have done better anyway. 1.5/10

Cellar Dweller (Buechler, 1987) - This I hadn't seen before, which is kind of surprising. I was aware of it because it made Fangoria's cover, but it never came out where I grew up. Though he did direct a handful of horror films (including F13 part VII), Buechler is first of all a make-up and f/x artist - and not a particularly good one. This film is pretty much a one creature deal, and it's not a pretty one, it looks and feels like a stiff buffy ghoulies on steroids (and yes, Buechler designed the Ghoulies too). The introduction got me pretty excited, it feels like a cheapo version of a Stuart Gordon film, of whom Buechler has been a frequent collaborator (to be more precise, it feels like it aims for something in between the Gordon-Lovecraft-verse and Creepshow, but doesn't come close to either). It does have Jeffrey Combs in a small role, and its tale of drawings coming to life opens up for some reflexivity (posters from some Gordon films on top of it), but it's zero effective, and not much fun. 2.5/10


Though neither of these films come close to the top-5 b-movies I identified earlier, Cellar Dweller did remind me of one of my favorite 80s horror films, that should have been on top of the list.

I, Madman
Xtro
Society
Dead Heat
Night of the Creeps
The Food of the Gods

I'll have to rewatch Night of the Creeps to see which one of the bottom two I kick out (though I'm sure I'm still missing better ones).

 

[Osprey]

The Toxic Avenger (1984) - 6/10

A wimpy mop boy at a health club is pranked by its members and falls into a conveniently uncovered barrel of toxic waste, transforming him into a super-strong mutant with a craving for justice. Well, justice may not be the right word because he smashes people's heads into pulp even if all they ever did was laugh at him. Basically, it's like Carrie, but he also finds time to save innocent strangers, ala Superman, when he isn't blinded by his quest for over-the-top vengeance. Speaking of over-the-top, the acting is simply terrible across the board, and even Toxie's lines are dubbed, but it's all so cheesy that I eventually warmed up to it. The dialogue, direction, camerawork, editing and soundtrack are all just as bad and scream "low budget." That said, it has a surprisingly decent story (even if it is a little weak). Besides the revenge plot that makes Toxie easy to root for, there's a romantic subplot with a blind girl who falls in love with him for his personality and not his looks. Aww. I liked the "Beauty and the Beast" angle and the fact that even we don't get to see his face until well past the halfway mark, which gives the movie a little mystery. There's a fair amount of humor, mostly from his girlfriend not seeing what she's doing and the creative (and sometimes gory) ways that he kills people. In the end, the movie's likable characters and overall charm really made up for its many glaring weaknesses and elevated it to true "so bad it's good" status. I'm kicking myself for waiting 40 years to finally getting around to watching it.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

View attachment 1271079
The Toxic Avenger (1984) - 6/10

A wimpy mop boy at a health club gets pranked by its patrons and falls into an conveniently uncovered barrel of toxic waste, transforming him into a super-strong mutant with a craving for justice. Well, justice may not be the right word because he smashes people's head into pulp even if all they ever did was laugh at him. Basically, it's like Carrie, but he also finds time to save complete strangers, ala Superman, when he isn't blinded by his quest for over-the-top vengeance. Speaking of over-the-top, the acting is simply terrible across the board, and even Toxie's lines are dubbed, but it's all so cheesy that I eventually warmed up to it and found it amusing. The dialogue, direction, camerawork, editing and soundtrack are all just as bad and scream "low budget." That said, it has a surprisingly good story. Besides the revenge plot that makes Toxie easy to root for, there's a romantic sub-plot with a blind girl who falls in love with him for his personality and not his looks. Aww. I liked that and the fact that even we don't get to see his face until well past the halfway mark, which stretched out the mystery. There's a fair amount of humor, mostly from his girlfriend's blindness (like cooking inedible food for him) and the creative (and sometimes gory) ways that he kills people. The movie's likable characters, overall charm and deliberate silliness and cheesiness all went a long way to making up for its many glaring weaknesses. I've read that this is one of the best examples of a "so-bad-it's-good" movie and I have to agree. I'm kicking myself for waiting 40 years to watch it, since it's one of the more enjoyable 'B' (or maybe it's really 'Z') movies that I've seen.

Troma has a few fun films, depending on your (lack of) taste. Toxic sure is one of their better films, Tromeo and Juliet might have been my favorite.

 

[Osprey]

The Toxic Avenger Part II (1989) - 4/10

An evil corporation tricks Toxie into searching out his long-lost father in Japan so it can take over Tromaville in his absence. While the original had me thinking "this is silly, but I like it," this sequel mostly had me thinking "this is just silly." The slapstick is dialed up to the point that it practically becomes a live-action cartoon, but not a very funny one, unless you're maybe 12 years old. The plot is weak and nonsensical, even compared to the original, and it's missing most of its charm. The first 40 minutes were a bit of a chore to get through. I was then relieved when it switched locations to Japan, where it became a lot more tolerable and interesting, thanks to the fresh setting and culture. Toxie meets a Japanese girl, uses her help to disguise himself as a tourist (as you can see above, you can barely recognize him) and fights ninjas and kabuki warriors. Eventually, though, it switches back to Tromaville for the finale, where it lost me again. At 108 minutes, the movie is far too long for its thin and uninteresting plot. Scenes and even fights really drag and many things that might've been funny if momentary are also stretched out to the point that they're not. It wasn't all bad, though. I didn't hate the Japan portion and did laugh a few times, such as when Toxie is about to fight Japanese thugs and yells "Bonzai!", only for a character to suddenly appear and hand him a bonsai tree. Another moment is when ninjas draw swords on him and he runs into a sushi shop and comes out with a swordfish. Then, when they use throwing stars, he runs back in and comes out with a few starfish. The humor is a lot more miss than hit, though. Thankfully, the gore is pretty good, particularly one gruesome scene where a guy's leg is mistaken for a sushi roll, but there isn't a whole lot of it in total. Supposedly, there's a cut that's 10 minutes shorter and removes all of the gore, so skip that and search for the 108-minute version (despite it being too long) if you even bother with this sequel. You may not want to, though, since it's a big step down from the original.

 

[Osprey]

The Toxic Avenger Part III: The Last Temptation of Toxie (1989) - 3/10

To afford eye-restoring surgery for his girlfriend, Toxie sells his soul to the devil by taking a job with the evil corporation from the last movie and helping it corrupt Tromaville. This was filmed concurrently with the last one, and it was obvious that many scenes were filmed for each hours apart on the same sets with the same extras and same props. It's a whole movie of the worst portions (set in Tromaville) of the last movie, without any reprieve like the Japan portion. There are a few mildly amusing moments, like when Toxie skips rope with a thug's intestines, and one clever joke, when a depressed Toxie says, "I don't have a life. I have a half-life." Those moments are few and far between, though, making this a pretty unfunny movie, despite every attempt to be hilarious. Most of the humor fell flat and felt juvenile. There are also far fewer fights and much less gore than the last movie, with the middle hour having none that I can remember. Overall, there isn't much to redeem this movie, except maybe that it doesn't take itself seriously.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

The Toxic Avenger Part II (1989) - 4/10

The Toxic Avenger Part III: The Last Temptation of Toxie (1989) - 3/10

Oh, I should have warned you. I haven't seen Citizen Toxie, but I guess it's also unwatchable.

 

[Osprey]

Citizen Toxie: The Toxic Avenger IV (2000) - 2/10

Toxie accidentally switches places with the Noxious Offender (aka Noxie), an evil version of himself from another dimension. It opens with narration apologizing for the two "rotten" sequels and claiming that this is the "real sequel." That got me a little hopeful, but that feeling lasted only a matter of seconds. The very first scene features special needs students celebrating "Take a Mexican to Lunch Day" before being brutally massacred by an armed gang wearing diapers. It was clear almost immediately that we were going for a new low. Nothing is safe in this movie, including the disabled, the obese, the elderly, children, homosexuals, transvestites, Jews, Christians, unborn babies and probably more that I'm forgetting. There are even rape and abortion jokes. Political incorrectness can be funny, but much of this felt tasteless and trying too hard to be offensive. I think I laughed only once during the entire runtime, and that's when Toxie finds a map of the hospital and traces his finger from the "You are here" pin to a "Noxie is here" pin to an "Armed guards that want to kill you are here" pin. That might be the only non-low-brow joke in the whole movie. Corey Feldman and Ron Jeremy have minor roles as a doctor and the mayor, respectively, because of course they do. James Gunn (who once made rape jokes, himself) also has a small role mocking Stephen Hawking (see image above). Who isn't in the movie is Hugh Hefner, because he forced Troma to cut all of his scenes. You know your movie's trashy when even Hugh Hefner doesn't want to be in it. At least they remembered the gore this time, but even that and more nudity than the previous three movies combined couldn't redeem this one for me. A bit surprisingly, it has the best ratings after the original. I suppose it's because it's the trashiest movie in the series by far, and that's what Troma fans want, but it felt more like the bad kind of trash than the good kind to me.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Citizen Toxie: The Toxic Avenger IV (2000) - 2/10

[...] It was clear almost immediately that we were going for a new low. Nothing is safe in this movie, including the disabled, the obese, the elderly, children, homosexuals, transvestites, Jews, Christians, blacks, unborn babies and probably more that I'm forgetting. There are even rape and abortion jokes.

Yeah, no surprise. I think Troma switched to punching down and going for the relentless "taboo" humor with Terror Firmer the year before. I never was a big fan of their stuff outside of a few pretty fun flicks, but the few things I've seen from that film going forward was just shameful.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Yeah, no surprise. I think Troma switched to punching down and going for the relentless "taboo" humor with Terror Firmer the year before. I never was a big fan of their stuff outside of a few pretty fun flicks, but the few things I've seen from that film going forward was just shameful.

Yeah they had a few fun flicks that resonated and built up brand but the follow ups to those (Toxic Avenger and Class of Nuke Em High sequels) and other films were progressively bad or terrible

Troma's War and Sgt. Kabukiman both fell flat and were misses and Troma really did poor job of transitioning into 90's. Its humor fit in 80's going back to low brow early comedies that helped get studio off ground

It was one of those things in which Kaufman and Herz were chasing rekindling success of Toxic Avenger and Class of Nuke Em High but failed because the quality of work (Not exactly top notch to begin with) declined and audiences simply moved on after seeing the progressively worse productions

Also Troma attached its name to some really awful movies not of there creation as distrubuor so the lower quality stuff (Again even lower than Troma productions) tainted company reputation and legacy as everyone who spent years renting films at video stores, etc surely would remember renting something that had Troma on box and then finding it to be complete crap so again Troma tied itself to those films because they were cheap to acquire and in end probably made enough $ on video rental market for Kaufman/Herz that they didn't care about anything else

You cant recreate era that company had its most success and that is simply reality. It was niche company that found a lane in 80's and has lasted alot longer than anyone could have predicted. Nowadays companies of low quality straight to video/streaming are a dime a dozen so even then Troma no longer has place really because studios like Asylum can make terrible product likely far cheaper and in greater volume without the low hanging fruit humor, excess vulgarity, etc that Troma does in its rare productions/distributed films at this point

 

[Unholy Diver]

Yeah they had a few fun flicks that resonated and built up brand but the follow ups to those (Toxic Avenger and Class of Nuke Em High sequels) and other films were progressively bad or terrible

Troma's War and Sgt. Kabukiman both fell flat and were misses and Troma really did poor job of transitioning into 90's. Its humor fit in 80's going back to low brow early comedies that helped get studio off ground

It was one of those things in which Kaufman and Herz were chasing rekindling success of Toxic Avenger and Class of Nuke Em High but failed because the quality of work (Not exactly top notch to begin with) declined and audiences simply moved on after seeing the progressively worse productions

Also Troma attached its name to some really awful movies not of there creation as distrubuor so the lower quality stuff (Again even lower than Troma productions) tainted company reputation and legacy as everyone who spent years renting films at video stores, etc surely would remember renting something that had Troma on box and then finding it to be complete crap so again Troma tied itself to those films because they were cheap to acquire and in end probably made enough $ on video rental market for Kaufman/Herz that they didn't care about anything else

You cant recreate era that company had its most success and that is simply reality. It was niche company that found a lane in 80's and has lasted alot longer than anyone could have predicted. Nowadays companies of low quality straight to video/streaming are a dime a dozen so even then Troma no longer has place really because studios like Asylum can make terrible product likely far cheaper and in greater volume without the low hanging fruit humor, excess vulgarity, etc that Troma does in its rare productions/distributed films at this point

It kind of feels like they lived out the Harvey Dent "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." quote

 

[Jussi]

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Demonwarp (Alston, 1988) - Written by Buechler, who was supposed to direct but then had to go work on F13 part VII (dodged his own bullet right there), this one is a ridiculous mess. Starts with a meteor crashing on Earth centuries ago, turns to a bigfoot monster attack, introduces a typical slasher cast and then has the bigfoot doing slasher kills, but then zombies, and ends up with an extraterrestrial monster stuck in a trash can (or something like that). George Kennedy thought he was smart and forced a part in this for his daughter - I'd love to know how much flak he took afterwards for this (at least she's the only one of the ladies that keeps her clothes on - she's a terrible actress, just like the rest of the cast, but her scene partner who might as well get a tan is just on another level of shit acting). Buechler proves again that he's a very poor make-up artist, here designing the bigfoot, a skinnier and hairier cousin of the Cellar Dweller monster that sometimes has no eyes but at other moments is just a boring mask (most of the zombies are just cheap dollar-store masks). 1/10

Dead End Drive-In (Trenchard-Smith, 1986) - This is a rewatch of a film I disliked as a kid. I'm not too sure why I went for it as I knew it wasn't a horror film, even though it's tagged as such everywhere. The premise is kind of fascinating. In a post-apocalyptic world, a dude takes his girlfriend to the drive-in to have sex and ignore the movie. He gets two wheels stolen from his brother's car (by the cops) and finds out that there's no way out for them and that the drive-in is some kind of prison, where they have access to free junk food, drugs, b-movies and popular music. The social comments write themselves - add to that a racist movement in reaction to poorer immigrants coming in the camp by choice and making the inmates fear for their food rations, and it's still a pretty relevant film! The problem isn't even really in the execution, it has a pretty impressive art direction and settings, and a cast that's bland but acceptable (apart from a few of the racist thugs, but after Demonwrap I was prepared for the worst). It's just that it's a pretty boring film, the quest to get out of the drive-in pales in comparison to what could have been made of the premise. I might be a little biased too because the wannabe-cyberpunk aesthetics is not really my cup of tea (it ain't the worst proto-cyberpunk film, that would be Liquid Sky). I didn't really enjoy the film this time around either, but I reckon it has some value. 4/10

 

[stone fury]

Watched Backrooms and while it was visually strong and had sound design was good but the story, characters, dialogue, etc were horrible

crazy to me how well this movie performed, i feel like im missing something

(have not watched the youtube videos)

 

[Osprey]

The Toxic Avenger (2023) - 3/10

A janitor (Peter Dinklage) becomes a superhero after falling into toxic waste. That's about it for similarities to the 1984 original. For some reason, he's been given a new name (Winston), is now a middle-aged single parent and has a new motive for revenge that involves getting back at his employers, the local chemical plant. Also, instead of a girlfriend, he gets a female sidekick. I didn't find Winston to be very likable or sympathetic, but Dinklage plays him for only 30 minutes until another actor takes over playing Toxie (though Dinklage continues to do his voice). Kevin Bacon plays the forgettable boss of the chemical planet, while Elijah Wood is more memorable as his brother (at least I think he was his brother), though only because of his unflattering makeup and awful hair piece. The plot is incoherent, the editing is perplexing and the tone is off. It tries to be both serious and funny, but no one wants seriousness in a Toxic Avenger movie and every attempt at comedy fell flat. I didn't laugh once. There isn't even any good action because, instead of hand-to-hand combat, Toxie just swings his toxic mop at enemies and instantly scores kills by making their body parts melt. It might sound cool, but all of the gore is CGI, not practical. This is a movie with an obviously decent budget that felt like it was trying desperately to become a cult classic. I don't understand the positive reviews at IMDb and RT. It's nothing like the original and not even good at being its own thing, IMO. I can't believe I sat through three bad sequels in anticipation of this remake. What a toxic waste of time.

 

[stephenball]

Just watched the trailer for the new Resident Evil, I’m super hyped. I remember reading the early screening reactions describing it as a horror version of Fury Road, where once it kicks off it basically never slows back down until the end (I believe it’s a nice economic 95 minute runtime as well)

 

[Unholy Diver]

View attachment 1272133
The Toxic Avenger (2023) - 3/10

A janitor (Peter Dinklage) becomes a superhero after falling into toxic waste. That's about it for similarities to the 1984 original. For some reason, he's been given a new name (Winston), is now a middle-aged single parent and has a new motive for revenge that involves getting back at his employers, the local chemical plant. Also, instead of a girlfriend, he gets a female sidekick. I didn't find Winston to be very likable or sympathetic, but Dinklage plays him for only 30 minutes until another actor takes over playing Toxie (though Dinklage continues to do his voice). Kevin Bacon plays the forgettable boss of the chemical planet, while Elijah Wood is more memorable as his brother (at least I think he was his brother), though only because of his unflattering makeup and awful hair piece. The plot is incoherent, the editing is perplexing and the tone is off. It tries to be both serious and funny, but no one wants seriousness in a Toxic Avenger movie and every attempt at comedy fell flat. I didn't laugh once. There isn't even any good action because, instead of hand-to-hand combat, Toxie just swings his toxic mop at enemies and instantly scores kills by making their body parts melt. It might sound cool, but all of the gore is CGI, not practical. This is a movie with an obviously decent budget that felt like it was trying desperately to become a cult classic. I don't understand the positive reviews at IMDb and RT. It's nothing like the original and not even good at being its own thing, IMO. I can't believe I sat through three bad sequels in anticipation of this remake. What a toxic waste of time.

Dinklage will bitch and moan about bad roles for little people and then take part in this masterpiece?

 

[shadow1]

Just watched the trailer for the new Resident Evil, I’m super hyped. I remember reading the early screening reactions describing it as a horror version of Fury Road, where once it kicks off it basically never slows back down until the end (I believe it’s a nice economic 95 minute runtime as well)

The new trailer looks really good, and I have high hopes.

But the Resident Evil nerd in me is still screaming that this movie isn't really "Resident Evil".

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Evil Dead Burn (Vanicek, 2026) - Better than the previous one, but still far from the reboot. The opening sequence works well, and it's an all-around nice little gory film, but it goes too fast to be really effective, and it's too thin to be interesting. 4/10

 

[Osprey]

Yeah, no surprise. I think Troma switched to punching down and going for the relentless "taboo" humor with Terror Firmer the year before. I never was a big fan of their stuff outside of a few pretty fun flicks, but the few things I've seen from that film going forward was just shameful.

I made it through 15 minutes of Terror Firmer last night before giving up. I rarely quit on movies, but there was no plot, the "humor" was tasteless and I had no interest in seeing any more. Instead, I went back to classic Troma...

Class of Nuke 'Em High (1986) - 5/10

Kids at a high school start acting weird(er than usual) after the nuclear plant next door has a containment leak. This was better than every Troma movie that I've seen except for the original The Toxic Avenger, but still was a little disappointing. The plot was weak, it really dragged in the middle and, despite a lot of silliness, I didn't find it funny. Still, it had great "80s-ness" and the last 10 minutes, when the toxic monster appears and it finally lives up to being a horror movie, were worth the wait. Like Night of the Creeps, it's too bad that more of the movie wasn't like the finale. Anyways, I think this is it for me and Troma movies. There are a few sequels to this, but they sound as bad as the Toxic Avenger sequels and I've probably punished myself enough.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The new trailer looks really good, and I have high hopes.

But the Resident Evil nerd in me is still screaming that this movie isn't really "Resident Evil".

I've seen theories that this is a prequel which will lead to Leon and company saving the day. The typewriter and shotgun shells in the desk are good throwbacks and possible clues. We'll see.

 

[stephenball]

I wouldn’t hold your breath on Leon or whoever coming in, I think it’s going to be a very self contained story of a nobody caught up in the situation, and I think that’s a good call. Cregger has said that it’s more based on the feeling of the games putting you in that world, and I feel like the trailer does a pretty good job with that.

I love Resident Evil games, but I think a lot of things that are fun in the games just wouldn’t work in a movie. It’s fun to do weird non sensical puzzles and having Leon backflip around in a game, but a more grounded approach for a movie is much better.

I’ve seen people say that this feels like the movie telling the story of a person whose journal entry you read in a Resident Evil game, and that makes sense to me.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Isnt there already like 7 Resident Evil movies? What is different about the new one?

 

[shadow1]

My quibble is that with a couple of exceptions, the Resident Evil games focus on highly trained/S.T.A.R.S. members dealing with the zombie outbreak, and they can barely hold their own. Having the movie focus on a random schmoe caught up in an outbreak is pretty much the premise of every zombie movie.

Plus the setting is always huge. The games are famous for gothic mansions, creepy train cars, and so on.

 

[shadow1]

Isnt there already like 7 Resident Evil movies? What is different about the new one?

The first 6 movies (the Milla Jovovich ones) were pretty divorced from the games. Some concepts and character names, but those films have an original main character and an original story. Plus, the "horror" is all but removed by the third movie.

The 7th movie was faithful to the games, but instead of focusing on just one game, it tried to cram in three. The result was poor, and the film frankly didn't have enough budget (the sets look like they're 75% scale and TV actors were used).

This 8th movie, from my understanding, is about an original character caught up in the events of the 2nd video game. So basically telling its own story within the Resident Evil world.

 

[Ace]

Isnt there already like 7 Resident Evil movies? What is different about the new one?

They put someone with talent in charge of it.