Kings News: Holland officially GM

[jgs]

Unless he’s bringing Nill and Bowman with him the best you can hope for is long contracts for washed up players.

Hey if Scotty Bowman still has the mental and physical capibility to handle coaching, I would hire him. He is one of the greatest coachs of all time. Proven Cup winner.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It’s about what you do with and manage those assets, either as picks, prospects or roster players. We can debate why all day long but I think it’s reasonable to say we have had less value from those assets than those other teams. Be that drafting, development, trades or just bad luck. Getting value guarantees nothing but it gives you a better chance.

Thats a different argument, I don't really think EDM has garnered much value from those picks.....they just have two of the best players in the game today.....

You'd have to go through trade trees to see what they have brought back, and I don't have the time to dig that deep.

The whole argument was that draft rounds 1-2 provide most of your CORE players......and that's simply not as true anymore, they can, for sure, DAL is a great example, but FL has 3 players in that same time frame.....they got their core via FA and trades...or older pieces like Barkov etc 2013 etc.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Thats a different argument, I don't really think EDM has garnered much value from those picks.....they just have two of the best players in the game today.....

You'd have to go through trade trees to see what they have brought back, and I don't have the time to dig that deep.

The whole argument was that draft rounds 1-2 provide most of your CORE players......and that's simply not as true anymore, they can, for sure, DAL is a great example, but FL has 3 players in that same time frame.....they got their core via FA and trades...or older pieces like Barkov etc 2013 etc.

Barkov should be a King, I believe DL was extremely high on him.

 

[Kingkopitar]

all the anti kopi people on here, probably all of the anti kempe people coming out of the woodwork from idk 2021. I can't imagine watching the kings without kopi and how much that would have sucked..more.

 

[Herby]

I think you are grossly over estimating where Kopitar and Doughty are in their career. Kopitar is still a good player in a smaller role. Doughty is not good anymore. Kings were doing better without Doughty. And if the Kings have a good captain then it can potentially turn around the culture on the Kings. Kopitar and Doughty leaving the Kings would by far be the best thing for the team.

It's not what they bring on the ice. At this stage in their careers, Kopitar is a declining 2C and Doughty is a declining 2nd pair defenseman. I think we all can agree on that.

It's the perfect storm of those two leaving, Danault leaving and the lack of re-enforcements coming up to replace them, due to a combination of draft picks and prospects being traded to chase this stupid BS the last four years, and a failure to produce expected results from the picks they kept.

Just look at what they have under contract (or team control) for that 27/28 season (the first one post DD and AK), a bunch of highly-paid 30+ wingers that will be entering the decline stage, Byfield the only viable top 3 center, other than Greentree, almost nothing of note in the 21-24 range due to all the traded picks. You can't fix or build on that through free-agency and certainly not through trades.

It's clear as day what they are doing, it's going to be two more seasons of going for it, and then it's going to be tear down time. The big debate on this forum in 2-3 years will be what to do with Byfield, thanks to the inept decision to sign him to a five year deal he will be two years from UFA, and will be the age where he doesn't really mix in age-wise with the likely top 5 picks the Kings are going to have from 28-31.

The age difference between Byfield and a top 5 pick in 2029 would be roughly the same age difference as Drew Doughty and Gabe Vilardi.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I don't think people realize just how bad it's going to be when 11&8 retire.

2017 1st - Gone
2017 2nd - Gone
2018 1st - Gone
2019 1st - Turcotte
2019 1st - Gone
2019 2nd - Gone
2019 2nd - Gone
2020 1st - Byfield
2020 2nd - Gone
2021 1st - Clarke
2021 2nd - Pinelli
2021 2nd - Helenius
2022 1st - Gone
2022 2nd - Gone
2023 1st - Gone
2023 2nd - Dvorak

That was supposed to make up a lot of your roster as we moved from the 2020's to 2030's and it's mostly just dust.

It's a simple numbers game, how can you trade that many 1st and 2nd round picks and expect to field an NHL capable roster? They are going to have to bring in a bunch of Thornton and Calder types and just hope like hell that they draft better than they have for the past 17 years.

I'm really struggling to think of a situation where this much was traded in such a short time, I assume teams like Detroit and Colorado did it back in the day, but just looking at all those picks traded is just wow.

15 first and 2nd round picks between 2017 and 2023 and you have Byfield, Clarke, Turcotte, Helenius, Pinelli and Dvorak to show for it. That is just incredible.

And the craziest thing is they are looking at these next two seasons like the 2001 Avs looked at that season, they are just completely all-in on winning and will be open to move whatever. I would venture to guess that we will see things like this years pick, and some of the guys taken in 2024 offered up between the draft and the deadline.

The good news at least is the Kings should be in a position to draft very close to the top of the draft for about 3-4 years in the late 2020's/early 2030's.
-------------------------------
@Axl Rhoadz Notes

• Key Players 11 & 8 Retiring: The team’s future looks bleak once these veteran anchors are gone.
• Lost Draft Picks: From 2017–2023, the Kings had 15 first- and second-round picks, but most are gone via trades or failed to pan out.
• Notable Remaining Players: Only Byfield, Clarke, Turcotte, Helenius, Pinelli, and Dvorak remain from those picks.
• Depth Issues Looming: The team traded away too many high picks to maintain a sustainable roster post-2020s.
• All-In Strategy: The Kings are currently in "win-now" mode, similar to the 2001 Avalanche, and may continue trading additional future assets.

I think the assets part of this, in terms of draft capital and development largely depends on Marner being signed. Marner only costs cap space and there’s several options for Holland to make even more cap room to add Marner and other players.

I believe they are going after Marner, and will retool the bottom six so they can roll four lines in the playoffs. They don’t trust the kids, that’s obvious , and they’ll be shipped out for veterans and defensive depth. Think of when DL traded Lubo for Greene/Stoll. I believe you could see something similar with Clarke under Holland. Again, something like McCabe/Knies from Toronto, probably another prospect.


If they can’t land Marner, that’s where things get dicey and almost have to unload assets and developmental prospects for whoever.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

all the anti kopi people on here, probably all of the anti kempe people coming out of the woodwork from idk 2021. I can't imagine watching the kings without kopi and how much that would have sucked..more.

I don't think people hate him, but I do think his legacy and name are getting tarnished by a franchise that still wants to play him #1 dman minutes.

We SHOULD be able to celebrate the last years of Kopitar and Doughty but they're getting skated like they're 24 with predictable results and people realize the franchise/coaching/mgmt refuses to reduce their roles so all we can hope for is a trade I suppose

Watching an exhausted ready to puke kopitar throw a hand grenade for Doughty to not-hold at the blueline to end our season was pretty emblematic

 

[Statto]

Thats a different argument, I don't really think EDM has garnered much value from those picks.....they just have two of the best players in the game today.....

You'd have to go through trade trees to see what they have brought back, and I don't have the time to dig that deep.

The whole argument was that draft rounds 1-2 provide most of your CORE players......and that's simply not as true anymore, they can, for sure, DAL is a great example, but FL has 3 players in that same time frame.....they got their core via FA and trades...or older pieces like Barkov etc 2013 etc.

Sure but you have to get those core pieces, so you use your assets to acquire them. With those picks some of the most valuable and flexible ones available you they need to be used effectively. They haven’t done that and far too many of them were completely wasted, especially the ones that were either waived or have lost so much value they were lost for cents on the dollar.

 

[Sol]

all the anti kopi people on here, probably all of the anti kempe people coming out of the woodwork from idk 2021. I can't imagine watching the kings without kopi and how much that would have sucked..more.

I don’t know if this is partially directed to me, I love Kopitar the player but I hate Kopitar the captain. Don’t get it twisted.

 

[bland]

I don't think people hate him, but I do think his legacy and name are getting tarnished by a franchise that still wants to play him #1 dman minutes.

We SHOULD be able to celebrate the last years of Kopitar and Doughty but they're getting skated like they're 24 with predictable results and people realize the franchise/coaching/mgmt refuses to reduce their roles so all we can hope for is a trade I suppose

Watching an exhausted ready to puke kopitar throw a hand grenade for Doughty to not-hold at the blueline to end our season was pretty emblematic

How many legends do you know of that have successfully and willingly accepted reduced or minor roles within organizations as they aged out?

You don't let players dictate the length of their string to run out. You have to cut their cord and do what's best for the organization.

It has been readily apparent for longer than a decade now that neither Kopitar or Doughty is capable of being the leaders of a franchise. No shame in that, both have had fantastic careers without possessing that particular skill set.

I would argue - and have done so for well over a decade now - that a player like Kopitar actually does more harm than good. Having a player capable of being a superstar that consistently settles for less is just a terrible influence, even if it is in the guise of being a good teammate.

Folks just love a guy who sacrifices numbers for the team concept, in most cases that is respectable, but in Anze's case in his (too) long career you see people that never want to acknowledge just how detrimental it has been to cheat offense for defense when the teams biggest needs under Anze has always been the exact same things: not enough offense, not enough passion. Not once has Kopitar adjusted his approach to fix those weaknesses, just season after season of 65 points, chasing the last playoff spots and bowing out as soon as challenged.

This team mirrors Kopitar's personality. Settling down instead of ramping up. Gracefully accepting defeat instead of clawing until the last breath. Accepting fate instead of daring to change it. That's pure Anze Kopitar. Excellent margins, but low sales.

He must go in order to right the ship. If not, its more aimless drifting. He won't commit to retiring, he isn't going to pull his own plug here. Why would he? Its easy money with no consequences.

 

[Herby]

I think the assets part of this, in terms of draft capital and development largely depends on Marner being signed. Marner only costs cap space and there’s several options for Holland to make even more cap room to add Marner and other players.

I believe they are going after Marner, and will retool the bottom six so they can roll four lines in the playoffs. They don’t trust the kids, that’s obvious , and they’ll be shipped out for veterans and defensive depth. Think of when DL traded Lubo for Greene/Stoll. I believe you could see something similar with Clarke under Holland. Again, something like McCabe/Knies from Toronto, probably another prospect.


If they can’t land Marner, that’s where things get dicey and almost have to unload assets and developmental prospects for whoever.

The Kings development strategy with Brandt Clarke has made it where he has less value (and probably significantly less) than a winger the Leafs took 50 picks later in the same draft. Another great example of modern prospect development vs. The Chevy Kings 1995 development philosophy.

I like Clarke a lot, I think he is a great talent and if I were a GM I'd look at him as a buy-low type. But I don't think he has nearly the trade value that you are suggesting. Prospects are like cars, they are quickly diminishing assets. And right now four years in and not even trusted to play a regular shift in the playoffs thanks to inept coaching and the slowcook.

I'd have to guess that Clarke's value is probably in the general neighborhood of what the Hawks got for Kirby Dach (a mid 1st round pick).

I agree on the Kings trying to sign Marner, but there is going to be heavy competition, and don't be surprised if a big competitor is about 45 minutes down the 5. The Ducks are a bit behind the Kings right now, but over 7 years, you have to figure he gets more playoff opportunities with the Ducks based on the trajectory of each teams roster. You also have an alltime great coach. Who knows though, free-agents don't seem to like signing in LA and usually end up in big northeast markets or in the tax-free states.

 

[Piston]

How many legends do you know of that have successfully and willingly accepted reduced or minor roles within organizations as they aged out?

You don't let players dictate the length of their string to run out. You have to cut their cord and do what's best for the organization.

It has been readily apparent for longer than a decade now that neither Kopitar or Doughty is capable of being the leaders of a franchise. No shame in that, both have had fantastic careers without possessing that particular skill set.

I would argue - and have done so for well over a decade now - that a player like Kopitar actually does more harm than good. Having a player capable of being a superstar that consistently settles for less is just a terrible influence, even if it is in the guise of being a good teammate.

Folks just love a guy who sacrifices numbers for the team concept, in most cases that is respectable, but in Anze's case in his (too) long career you see people that never want to acknowledge just how detrimental it has been to cheat offense for defense when the teams biggest needs under Anze has always been the exact same things: not enough offense, not enough passion. Not once has Kopitar adjusted his approach to fix those weaknesses, just season after season of 65 points, chasing the last playoff spots and bowing out as soon as challenged.

This team mirrors Kopitar's personality. Settling down instead of ramping up. Gracefully accepting defeat instead of clawing until the last breath. Accepting fate instead of daring to change it. That's pure Anze Kopitar. Excellent margins, but low sales.

He must go in order to right the ship. If not, its more aimless drifting. He won't commit to retiring, he isn't going to pull his own plug here. Why would he? Its easy money with no consequences.

You make an excellent point. Bill Guerin paid a heavy price to buyout Parise and Suter because he wanted them OUT of the locker room. Obviously, Guerin felt a culture change was necessary. It's too early to tell whether or not this was a successful strategy, but I suspect getting rid of them yielded better results than allowing them to fade into the twilight of their careers.

The key to the Holland hiring is who is really in charge. Is Luc still calling the shots or does Holland have carte blanche to do whatever he wants. I suspect we will find out very quickly based on front office personnel. If I were Holland, there is no way I would have taken the job without full authority. Why take a job where you are prevented from making needed changes. Other opportunities will come along.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Barkov should be a King, I believe DL was extremely high on him.

#2 OA in 2013, not sure how that was going to work lol

 

[Herby]

You make an excellent point. Bill Guerin paid a heavy price to buyout Parise and Suter because he wanted them OUT of the locker room. Obviously, Guerin felt a culture change was necessary. It's too early to tell whether or not this was a successful strategy, but I suspect getting rid of them yielded better results than allowing them to fade into the twilight of their careers.

The key to the Holland hiring is who is really in charge. Is Luc still calling the shots or does Holland have carte blanche to do whatever he wants. I suspect we will find out very quickly based on front office personnel. If I were Holland, there is no way I would have taken the job without full authority. Why take a job where you are prevented from making needed changes. Other opportunities will come along.

According to our favorite Kings insider, the team is waiting for other teams’ seasons to end before potentially hiring an AGM from one of them. That’s very encouraging because all the teams still playing operate very differently from how the Chevy-Kings front office has functioned. Maybe Luc has finally seen the light and is ready to hand things over to competent people?

If we hire someone from Dallas, Carolina or Florida to be Holland’s heir apparent and they’re given the freedom to tear it down once AK and DD retire, I’d gladly sacrifice two more years of losing to the Oilers in the 1st round.

Of course, the Mayor also mentioned that he thinks Yannetti should be the next AGM (shocking, I know). That would unfortunately be a continuation of the same tired status quo. But I think that’s more his own desire to see it happen. Honestly, I’m surprised we didn’t get an article a couple of weeks ago on MM arguing Yannetti’s case to be elected Pope.

 

[MonkeysUncle]

According to our favorite Kings insider the Kings are waiting for other teams seasons to end to potentially look at hiring an AGM from one of those teams, which is very very encouraging because all the teams left operate very differently from the way the Chevy-Kings front office has operated. So maybe Luc has finally seen the light and is going to turn it over to competent people. MM ofcourse also added that he thinks Mark Yannetti should be the AGM(shocking I know). At this rate I am expecting a case to be made for Yannetti to inherit the team when Uncle Phil passes.

As long as Holland tells Yannetti the type of player his looking for and then let's him draft as Holland's draft seems a bit spotty.
My concern is all this win now talk and we brought in the closer to do it, why would Holland bank on Hiller to get it done. He has mismanaged the lineup, seems to be stuck In his ways not to no accountability for his decisions.
There's is coach out there with 88 wins and if Holland only here for 3 years why not Laviolette. Seem like he would be very motivated

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Of course, the Mayor also mentioned that he thinks Yannetti should be the next AGM (shocking, I know). That would unfortunately be a continuation of the same tired status quo. But I think that’s more his own desire to see it happen. Honestly, I’m surprised we didn’t get an article a couple of weeks ago on MM arguing Yannetti’s case to be elected Pope.

In addition, Yannetti is a complete LIAR....right?

 

[Herby]

As long as Holland tells Yannetti the type of player his looking for and then let's him draft as Holland's draft seems a bit spotty.
My concern is all this win now talk and we brought in the closer to do it, why would Holland bank on Hiller to get it done. He has mismanaged the lineup, seems to be stuck In his ways not to no accountability for his decisions.
There's is coach out there with 88 wins and if Holland only here for 3 years why not Laviolette. Seem like he would be very motivated

Holland and Yanetti's best drafting days are well behind them. But ya the problem is Holland seems married to Ty Wright as his scouting director, which might actually be a downgrade. It's really tough to trust a guy who watched Quinn Hughes play multiple times in college and decided to draft Zadina.

Although, I really don't know how important the draft is going to be for Holland. I'm guessing the Kings are going to have few picks in 2025 and 2026 as they use them to build up the current roster, but then 2027 and beyond it's going to be a boatload of picks that they get from selling off guys like Fiala, Moore, Anderson, Kempe and perhaps even QB who aren't going to fit in age wise with the new rebuild. If they hire the AGM from one of those good teams, I'd like to see him bring over one of their top scouts to make the important picks that are going to shape what type of team the Kings are in the 2030's.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How many legends do you know of that have successfully and willingly accepted reduced or minor roles within organizations as they aged out?

You don't let players dictate the length of their string to run out. You have to cut their cord and do what's best for the organization.

It has been readily apparent for longer than a decade now that neither Kopitar or Doughty is capable of being the leaders of a franchise. No shame in that, both have had fantastic careers without possessing that particular skill set.

I would argue - and have done so for well over a decade now - that a player like Kopitar actually does more harm than good. Having a player capable of being a superstar that consistently settles for less is just a terrible influence, even if it is in the guise of being a good teammate.

Folks just love a guy who sacrifices numbers for the team concept, in most cases that is respectable, but in Anze's case in his (too) long career you see people that never want to acknowledge just how detrimental it has been to cheat offense for defense when the teams biggest needs under Anze has always been the exact same things: not enough offense, not enough passion. Not once has Kopitar adjusted his approach to fix those weaknesses, just season after season of 65 points, chasing the last playoff spots and bowing out as soon as challenged.

This team mirrors Kopitar's personality. Settling down instead of ramping up. Gracefully accepting defeat instead of clawing until the last breath. Accepting fate instead of daring to change it. That's pure Anze Kopitar. Excellent margins, but low sales.

He must go in order to right the ship. If not, its more aimless drifting. He won't commit to retiring, he isn't going to pull his own plug here. Why would he? Its easy money with no consequences.

There are some. Of course, there are precious few examples of high end guys who stayed their whole careers with one franchise.

Some are chopped for sure, like Modano, which is what you've always advocated for. Fairly, I'll add. Kane left.

But Brown did so successfully here. Thornton did so in SJ before his deal ran out and he went to TO. You can see it in progress with Benn and Seguin in Dallas. Or Giroux behind Couturier before he left as well.

They usually just quietly go out with a whimper/injuries, like Zetterberg, Getzlaf, Hossa, Toews, even Gretzky and Lemieux.

but one of Kopi's 'drawbacks' in this case is he's made of adamantium. So you have to treat him like Brown, Thornton, Seguin, and pull him back, let the youth advance.

 

[Herby]

In addition, Yannetti is a complete LIAR....right?

Yes

 

[FSL KINGS]

Looking forward to the restructuring this summer. Get some toughness, trim some fat go for a big UFA or two. Not too worried about the draft. 25 or 26. Haven't had a lot of success in the late first recently.

It's not like there's too much to screw up. Clarke could be traded for a vet, but that's better than watching the King's try & turn him into Mikey.

Anyone else catch Marner's frustrated backhand pass through the neutral zone that came back & ended up in the net? He's the perfect replacement for Doughty.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Found it!

 

[BigBrown]

Press conference here:

 

[MonkeysUncle]

Holland and Yanetti's best drafting days are well behind them. But ya the problem is Holland seems married to Ty Wright as his scouting director, which might actually be a downgrade. It's really tough to trust a guy who watched Quinn Hughes play multiple times in college and decided to draft Zadina.

Although, I really don't know how important the draft is going to be for Holland. I'm guessing the Kings are going to have few picks in 2025 and 2026 as they use them to build up the current roster, but then 2027 and beyond it's going to be a boatload of picks that they get from selling off guys like Fiala, Moore, Anderson, Kempe and perhaps even QB who aren't going to fit in age wise with the new rebuild. If they hire the AGM from one of those good teams, I'd like to see him bring over one of their top scouts to make the important picks that are going to shape what type of team the Kings are in the 2030's.

Hopefully the assistant Gm he brings in wont be tied to him after Holland leaves

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Ken Holland looks like grand moff tarken

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Holy shit he is keeping everyone and Luc told him “he can add a person or two.” That’s all we need to hear. Emperor is still pulling all the strings.