Kings News: Holland officially GM
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AbsentMojo
Hoping to escape the gravity of the Bluc hole
- Apr 18, 2018
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Would it shock anyone if a crystal ball indicated the next LAK cup is in 2089?
Edit: Leafs last cup was 58 yrs ago.. so 2089 is 64 yrs not really that far fetched
Edit: Leafs last cup was 58 yrs ago.. so 2089 is 64 yrs not really that far fetched
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KingsHockey24
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- Aug 1, 2013
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Master Yoda
LA Legends
Luc really needed to go with him. I suspect not a whole lot will change but i guess we'll find out if Holland makes any drastic changes to player personnel and management.
shuchukfan
Registered User
FSL KINGS
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- May 10, 2021
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Omni Owl
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f***ing yuck. Franchise isn't seeing a dime from me until the whole slate is wiped clean of these clowns.
Axl Rhoadz
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- Apr 5, 2011
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Shellz
Registered User
Just one step closer Luc is gone. One very very small baby step. I'm interested in seeing what he's going to do but that doesn't mean it probably wont follow with disappointment. Should be one exciting summer.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
I would have preferred an AGM from a front-office that has had some success or a player agent with his finger on the pulse of the current NHL. But this could have ended up way worse than Ken Holland.
The fact that it's not one of Emerson, Murray, Yannetti or even Futa at least signals that Luc knows he needed a new voice, even if it's still the win with 11&8 strategy. This teams front-office has made some very poor decisions the last few years, and none of these guys deserved a promotion.
I am curious to see who he brings in, and especially to see who his top lieutenant , who presumably will be in-line to take over in a couple of years is.
The fact that it's not one of Emerson, Murray, Yannetti or even Futa at least signals that Luc knows he needed a new voice, even if it's still the win with 11&8 strategy. This teams front-office has made some very poor decisions the last few years, and none of these guys deserved a promotion.
I am curious to see who he brings in, and especially to see who his top lieutenant , who presumably will be in-line to take over in a couple of years is.
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SaltyElkHunter
Grocery Shopping in the woods
Johnny Utah
Registered User
Raccoon Jesus
Jim Hiller is point shaving games
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It’s ironic. This year was the first year since ending the retool early that felt like a year Rob Blake was fully in charge of. I said at the time Blake was hired, that trying to extend the window (Kovi etc) wasn’t his call. I also said at the time ending the retool was Luc. Finally have a year that’s all about Blake, it is his best year and he’s gone.
This year we acquired what felt like Blake players, which I also said at the time. He still seems to me when Blake was able to do the job without that interference he did fine (not perfect by any means), but it was decisions that felt like Luc interfering which were what have derailed things.
I’ve said all along, but Luc was the problem. although Blake always had the option of walking away.
As they say, out of the frying pan…
This year we acquired what felt like Blake players, which I also said at the time. He still seems to me when Blake was able to do the job without that interference he did fine (not perfect by any means), but it was decisions that felt like Luc interfering which were what have derailed things.
I’ve said all along, but Luc was the problem. although Blake always had the option of walking away.
As they say, out of the frying pan…
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
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I've always felt the strategy/direction an organization chooses is more important than the GM who's executing it.
His son. Brad.
I mean, it absolutely was Luc, all you have to do is watch the press conference after Sutter/Lombardi were fired. Luc talked about how the team was a cup contender and how Deano was holding the team back, which is how he forced his way into being the POHO. I imagine there has been constant pressure from AEG, whether real or imagined for him to win. There were constant rumors of his resentment towards Dean because he was sidelined and was not given any respect for the cup wins.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
I do find it a bit interesting that two of BLuc's worst moves in the last 8 years, the PLD trade and Turcotte pick both had a leaker report to Rosen to set the record straight on what actually happened. One of which painted Blake in a better light by pinning the PLD trade on Luc, and another which made Blake look worse, in that he went against the wishes of his scouts and chose Turcotte, at the urging of former teammate Tony Granato.
I always figured it was one of the amateur scouts that fed the Turcotte info to Rosen. I wonder who it was that fed him the PLD/Blake info? If it comes out that Blake was against the trade, it absolves him of what most would say was his worst move as Kings GM. Interesting also how Rosen is the media member of choice for people to leak things that may paint Luc and the FO in a negative light. Makes you wonder why more prominent members of the media, with larger followings and who are given a lot of inside info on other things, are never the ones reporting things like that. I wonder why that is?
As far as Blake's off-season. The Kuemper trade was obviously great, and kudos to him for salvaging a terrible decision the year before to fill in the big goaltending hole. Kuemper was a joy to watch this season. And if Blake was indeed not responsible for PLD, he deserves a ton of credit for cleaning up Luc's mess.
But still, Warren Foegele, Darcy Kuemper, Tanner Jeannot and Joel Edmundson weren't making the Kings a contender. The Kings needed (and still need) a Rantanen type difference maker at the top of the lineup for the needle to really truly move.
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Herby
Now I can die in peace
I knew Brad Holland was coming, but I didn't know he was going to be the presumed heir apparent.
BTW, I never knew until today just how disliked Ken Holland is with the Wings fanbase. I got about 15 condolences texts and whatsapp messages today, you would have thought my dog died or something.
It's quite different than how our fanbase views Lombardi. I think the reason DL is viewed more favorably is because his three year disaster was ended by AEG and many saw it as unfair, while Holland's disaster was allowed to go on until the 2019 season. Holland's final 8 seasons in Detroit the team won 1 playoff series and never finished higher than third in the division, and between 2012 and 2018 they drafted one first line player in Larkin. I wonder if Lombardi's legacy would be different had AEG not fired him and what happened between June 2014 and April 2017 continued to happen until 2022 with Dean also passing on Q. Hughes or Makar to draft a bust in the process.
Agreed on the strategy/direction for the most part, while I am optimistic that some things will change for the better with the turnover (drafting and development philosophy), the fact that it's Luc hiring the 70 year old GM who brought him his only SC as a player, 23 years ago doesn't make you think Luc has any doubts about the teams ability to compete for a Stanley Cup.
Well... it's something different at least. I choose to be hopeful it will work out but I have some doubts. He will come with new strengths and weaknesses, just like any other candidate. It's someone who can bring a much needed outsider's perspective on this organization. He should be well familiar with some of the weaknesses, having been on the winning side of three playoff matchups.
Still, not a big fan of his resume as a whole.
Still, not a big fan of his resume as a whole.
GKJ
Global Moderator
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JTeller97
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I think you're being a little too harsh on the Turcotte pick, by all accounts he was viewed as a top 5 pick that draft year and I remember many thinking he was going to go 3rd to Chicago, it's not like Blake stuck his neck out for a completely off the board player. If you want criticize the development of him like you have in the past I think that's completely fair game but Turcotte was a legitimate quality prospect and I still genuinely thought he was the most important player on that wjc gold medal team in his D+1 season.
tigermask48
Maniacal Laugh
Man wouldn't that just be the ultimate "we can't beat Edmonton, so let's be LIKE Edmonton" type of loser mentality... It's probably what Luc will do.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
Most draft busts and disappointments in professional sports are from GM's doing exactly that, picking a guy where the consensus said he was supposed to go. Thomas Hickey type reach bust picks are the exception.
If your belief is that the draft is mostly luck, I get that, and I know many people here would agree with you. That the only difference between the Josh Allen pick and Josh Rosen pick was which team was lucky enough to draft one and unlucky enough to draft the other (both were similarly rated coming out). And I see some of that argument, but in a case like this, where your GM overrides your scouts you have to place blame on the GM, just as you'd have to give him a lot of praise if it worked out. And I'm sure Blake would tell you the same thing.
As far as the WJC, I enjoy watching it for the spectacle, but I am firmly in the camp that it's not as valuable a scouting tool as weeks and months worth of league games in the CHL or NCAA are. I know many like @King'sPawn disagree with me minimizing the WJC and place a lot of value on it for player evals.
No dispute that those were the three best players for team USA. But I just don't think it mattered all that much. I'll use this example.
The same season that WJC happened, I watched Wisconsin play on local tv every weekend during Covid. Cole Caufield had one of the most dominant individual seasons I've ever seen from a college player. He won the Hobey Baker (probably unanimously), led the nation in scoring, carried a very average UW team to the Big Ten Conf title over much more talented and deeper teams in Minnesota and Michigan
When his season ended he went to Montreal's AHL team for a weekend, and I think had multiple goals in both games. He went to Montreal and scored 4 times in 10 regular games, and was an important player (probably even difference making vs. Vegas) in their run to the Stanley Cup final as a 20 year old in his D+2.
None of those other three would have been able to sniff playing at that stage at that age, but since so much value is placed on a 2 week tournament, some people could just never get over what was just essentially a bad 2 weekends of a junior/NCAA season. There is a certain notorious Ranger fan on the main board who insisted it was not going to translate to the NHL. And then when it did, after 4 goals in 6 games vs. Vegas as a huge dog, the response is, "well, he didn't do anything at the WJC". 60 games of hockey, including 20 in the STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS and you are bringing up a USA vs, Finland junior hockey game 7-8 months before?
@Axl Rhoadz notes version: When a GM goes against the wishes of his scouting team to make a pick, he should be more heavily praised if it hits, and more heavily criticized if it doesn't.
When evaluating the type of season an NHL prospect has had, 40-60 more structured league games should carry significantly more weight than a handful of high variance tournament games.
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GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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I get that part of it, but Holland didn’t want to fire him, and he has a .643 points percentage. He’s primed for a second chance and Holland is one of the 200 hockey men, he’s going to want his people.
BringTheReign
Registered User
Con: It’s pretty clear to me that Jim Nill was the brain behind those Wings teams given his success in Dallas, not Holland.
Pro: Holland is an established enough name that he may be able to completely stonewall Luc meddling, but Lombardi should have had that cache after 2 Cups so what do I know.
All I know is this news means I’m probably watching more games of teams that are well-run and fun to watch rather than Kings games next season.
Pro: Holland is an established enough name that he may be able to completely stonewall Luc meddling, but Lombardi should have had that cache after 2 Cups so what do I know.
All I know is this news means I’m probably watching more games of teams that are well-run and fun to watch rather than Kings games next season.
