Speculation: Holland & Columbus. Columbus & Holland. In it together. How? Why?

[guymez]

Yeah but I believe all GM's have their good and bad moves, often by design just to create competition.

So when people focus in on bad moves by a GM I question if they've considered this aspect.

Noticably more good than bad would be a nice change.

 

[Pavel10]

Holland was VASTLY better than Chiarelli.

However, that doesn't say much and overall he's been kinda below average.

If he knows he's out and negotiating with Columbus in the middle of the playoffs, I don't really mind. His work is done; at this point it's more up to Knoblauch to work with what's already been put together.

Holland has been so bad he makes chairelli look good.

Chiarelli drafted skinner desharnais Mcleod and Bouchard.

Holland hasn't had a single drafted player pan out.

Holland was left with 3 contacts from chairelli. McDavid and Drai both massive value. The third was mikko koskinen. Rest of the tire fire contracts 100% on Holland.

Chiarelli sucked at making trades. He was better drafting and writing contracts than Holland.

Don't get me wrong chiarelli sucked and this is a cripple fight argument. I just want to underline how painfully bad Holland has been.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Being a blue jackets fan must be agony

Nothing that a fifth per day can't get you through

We have-without a doubt-the most inept organization/ownership in any of the 4 major sports. I used to call it pathetic. If Holland is hired, my vocabulary has no words for it.

Good luck tonight!

 

[nturn06]

Noticably more good than bad would be a nice change.

To be fair, Holland took over a non-playoff team with the following roster

Forwards: McD, Drai, Nudge + Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Khaira, Cagiulla, Ty Rattie, Pulju, Rieder, Brodziak

D: Nurse, Klefboom, Larsson, Benning, Russel, Caleb Jones

G: Talbot+Koskinen


Moreover, he lost our only true top 2 D-man in Klefboom for no fault, and Larsson left not to have to deal with our fans.

Our fans simply do not remember how terrible our depth was, Rattie played for a while on the top line, and 3 of Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Cagiulla and Rattie were in our top 6... Just think about that.

He somehow managed to get rid of the Lucic contract, and then added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm without subtracting anything of value (not that we had anything).... And he was patient with the young guys, not rushed them as we did in the past.

The Campbell trade and the Nurse contract were his big blunders, but with Nurse you have to ask yourself: would we be better without him and extra $$$$?

We can blame him for not getting a better goalie, and yes, he should had tried harder.... But true #1 are almost impossible to acquire.

IMO, KH was not as bad as our fans think. He was not excelent, but he was passable to good.

 

[FunkyChicken]

Shouldn't we be warning Columbus?
Like Boston and Detroit fans did for us? NM

 

[syz]

I hope he goes there and immediately hires Wright again.

I said it on the mains when this rumor popped up. He's kinda broken even with contracts. Made more good trades than bad (despite wasting almost every TDL). His fatal failure was drafting. Top heavy teams can't afford to get 0 meaningful games out of guys on ELCs.

 

[guymez]

To be fair, Holland took over a non-playoff team with the following roster

Forwards: McD, Drai, Nudge + Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Khaira, Cagiulla, Ty Rattie, Pulju, Rieder, Brodziak

D: Nurse, Klefboom, Larsson, Benning, Russel, Caleb Jones

G: Talbot+Koskinen


Moreover, he lost our only true top 2 D-man in Klefboom for no fault, and Larsson left not to have to deal with our fans.

Our fans simply do not remember how terrible our depth was, Rattie played for a while on the top line, and 3 of Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Cagiulla and Rattie were in our top 6... Just think about that.

He somehow managed to get rid of the Lucic contract, and then added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm without subtracting anything of value (not that we had anything).... And he was patient with the young guys, not rushed them as we did in the past.

The Campbell trade and the Nurse contract were his big blunders, but with Nurse you have to ask yourself: would we be better without him and extra $$$$?

We can blame him for not getting a better goalie, and yes, he should had tried harder.... But true #1 are almost impossible to acquire.

IMO, KH was not as bad as our fans think. He was not excelent, but he was passable to good.

The Campbell signing and the Nurse contract are a good start. Regarding Nurse...yes...I do think that the team would be better off without Nurse and his $9.25M contract.
This defence would be better not having to deal with Nurse and his poor hockey sense which comes at an astronomical price in terms of wasted cap space.
The Campbell signing hurts the team on multiple levels. First and foremost it denied this team from having a legit #1 goalie. Secondly it occupies the cap space needed to actually repair the goalie issue on this team.
Now the cap issues that the Nurse and Campbelll situations cause isnt necessarily a problem unless the team is cap maxed like this team is.
The other issue I have with Holland is that he makes poor bets on players and is more than willing to give up substantial draft picks when he makes these bets. The Henrique deal and the Athanasiou trades are an example of that. So that handicaps the team in 2 ways because assets are lost to make the team better in the present and also potentially make the team better in the future.

This is all off the top of my head. As you said its not like Holland hasnt done some good work but the mistakes he does make are big enough to neutralize much the good work he has done.

I would like to see some consistency and not have the team going 1 step forward and then 1 step backwards.
If you dont think that Holland has at best neutralized his good moves the team results confrim that. Holland has had 5 years of McDavid and Draisaitl in their prime and the team seemingly is no closer to winning the cup.
The same issues exist. Not enough quality on D and not enough depth at forward.
Additionally there is still the same problem of inconsistency in net.
That IMO is not a net positive outcome.

 

[McAsuno]

The Campbell signing and the Nurse contract are a good start. Regarding Nurse...yes...I do think that the team would be better off without Nurse and his $9.25M contract.
This defence would be better not having to deal with Nurse and his poor hockey sense which comes at an astronomical price in terms of wasted cap space.
The Campbell signing hurts the team on multiple levels. First and foremost it denied this team from having a legit #1 goalie. Secondly it occupies the cap space needed to actually repair the goalie issue on this team.
Now the cap issues that the Nurse and Campbelll situations cause isnt necessarily a problem unless the team is cap maxed like this team is.
The other issue I have with Holland is that he makes poor bets on players and is more than willing to give up substantial draft picks when he makes these bets. The Henrique deal and the Athanasiou trades are an example of that. So that handicaps the team in 2 ways because assets are lost to make the team better in the present and also potentially make the team better in the future.

This is all off the top of my head. As you said its not like Holland hasnt done some good work but the mistakes he does make are big enough toneutralize much the good work he has done.

I would like to see some consistency and not have the team going 1 step forward and then 1 step backwards.
If you dont think that Holland has at best neutralized his good moves the team results confrim that. Holland has had 5 years of McDavid and Draisaitl in their prime and the team seemingly is no closer to winning the cup.
The same issues exist. Not enough quality on D and not enough depth at forward.
Additionally there is still the same problem of inconsistency in net.
That IMO is not a net positive outcome.

Astounding post. 10/10. Especially the bolded.

 

[McDNicks17]

To be fair, Holland took over a non-playoff team with the following roster

Forwards: McD, Drai, Nudge + Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Khaira, Cagiulla, Ty Rattie, Pulju, Rieder, Brodziak

D: Nurse, Klefboom, Larsson, Benning, Russel, Caleb Jones

G: Talbot+Koskinen


Moreover, he lost our only true top 2 D-man in Klefboom for no fault, and Larsson left not to have to deal with our fans.

Our fans simply do not remember how terrible our depth was, Rattie played for a while on the top line, and 3 of Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Cagiulla and Rattie were in our top 6... Just think about that.

He somehow managed to get rid of the Lucic contract, and then added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm without subtracting anything of value (not that we had anything).... And he was patient with the young guys, not rushed them as we did in the past.

The Campbell trade and the Nurse contract were his big blunders, but with Nurse you have to ask yourself: would we be better without him and extra $$$$?

We can blame him for not getting a better goalie, and yes, he should had tried harder.... But true #1 are almost impossible to acquire.

IMO, KH was not as bad as our fans think. He was not excelent, but he was passable to good.

The depth has always been terrible under Holland too. It still is.

Kassian was the 4th best forward on the team in Holland's first year. Puljujarvi was the 4th best forward on the team in his second year. He finally added Hyman in Year 3.

His MO has always been add a big fish(Hyman, Kane, Ekholm) and ignore the other countless holes on the roster. Like last year, everyone and their grandma knew the Oilers needed a goalie, a RWer and a top4 right D. Holland brought in Ekholm and that's it. The Oilers pretty much singlehandedly lost to Vegas because of those three spots. Fast forward to this year, everyone and their grandma knew the Oilers needed to fill those same three spots. Holland brings in Henrique and that's it. Now look at what those three spots are doing again in the playoffs.

You can't just sit on your hands and ignore 80% of the roster in today's NHL.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I mean if you were out of a job in a few weeks, would you be turning down interviews?

He’s still under contract so I would imagine other teams would still need permission from the org first to talk to him.

Holland was VASTLY better than Chiarelli.

However, that doesn't say much and overall he's been kinda below average.

If he knows he's out and negotiating with Columbus in the middle of the playoffs, I don't really mind. His work is done; at this point it's more up to Knoblauch to work with what's already been put together.

9.25 million per season x 8 to Darnell Nurse and a full NMC for the life of the contract ends that argument.

 

[McAsuno]

The depth has always been terrible under Holland too. It still is.

Kassian was the 4th best forward on the team in Holland's first year. Puljujarvi was the 4th best forward on the team in his second year. He finally added Hyman in Year 3.

His MO has always been add a big fish(Hyman, Kane, Ekholm) and ignore the other countless holes on the roster. Like last year, everyone and their grandma knew the Oilers needed a goalie, a RWer and a top4 right D. Holland brought in Ekholm and that's it. The Oilers pretty much singlehandedly lost to Vegas because of those three spots. Fast forward to this year, everyone and their grandma knew the Oilers needed to fill those same three spots. Holland brings in Henrique and that's it. Now look at what those three spots are doing again in the playoffs.

You can't just sit on your hands and ignore 80% of the roster in today's NHL.

EDM 5v5 goal results with Ceci on ice compared to off.
Refusing to move on from this guy was such a fatal mistake from Holland again. I thought at least after two previous playoffs with him and then him being absolute dog shit in the regular season would make the organization realize Ceci needs to be shipped out for a top 4 d man right at the TDL. But nah, Holland just decided to trade for a band-aid solution in Stecher who doesn't even play whatsoever. Just inexcusable by Holland. There's literally no excuses left for Holland. Can't wait until the asshole is gone.

 

[Shanahanigans]

The Oilers won 7 playoff games in 2017. We won 8 in 2022. Holland has a single more playoff win than Chiarelli. Like others said, the same holes exist- no depth, below average defense and goaltending, along with terrible contracts. We also have no picks or prospects, at least Chia left us with some prospects. Mcleod, Bouchard, Desharnais, and even Skinner are guys who were drafted by Chia and bailed out Holland at various points. Draisaitl and Mcdavid are also better players now, Holland got their primes while Chia got their 18-22 years where they were very good, but not 130-150 point players.

Ultimately, we are no closer to a stanley cup, have a much worse future outlook, are the oldest team in the league, and are cap strapped. Chiarelli may have been a worse GM move for move, but Holland is leaving this team much worse than Chiarelli left it, and without having accomplished anything.

 

[TB12]

I fully expect a 2nd round pick from Columbus for compensation for Holland.


Lol jk. They only made the Oilers pay those stupid penalties.

 

[nturn06]

He’s still under contract so I would imagine other teams would still need permission from the org first to talk to him.

9.25 million per season x 8 to Darnell Nurse and a full NMC for the life of the contract ends that argument.

Yea, it's not like Chiarelli gave a similar contract to Lucic, and then traded Hall+Eberle+1st round pick (the Barzal pick) for Larson+Spooner.

People are wondering why we had soo bad of a depth, when Chia traded an amazing second line for a bag of pucks.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Yea, it's not like Chiarelli gave a similar contract to Lucic, and then traded Hall+Eberle+1st round pick (the Barzal pick) for Larson+Spooner.

People are wondering why we had soo bad of a depth, when Chia traded an amazing second line for a bag of pucks.

The Nurse contract is still worse than Lucic’s. Lucic would have got 6 per on the open market from someone. Darnell is overpaid by about 3 million per season, that’s a lot of wasted cap. The Spooner trade was stupid. Considering how injury prone Hall wound up being, the Larson trade wasn’t terrible. Not his fault his dad died visiting him in Edmonton and not Ken’s fault Larson didn’t tell him he had full intentions of leaving so he could have traded him at the deadline and got something back instead of losing him and essentially Hall for f*** all in the end. I remember Stauffer saying they working on an extension, it should be announced soon, then crickets, then Larson was leaving for Seattle because he wanted a change of scenery and new start.

They’re both shit GMs, one is not better than the other and one is not worse than the other.

 

[foshizzle]

To be fair, Holland took over a non-playoff team with the following roster

Forwards: McD, Drai, Nudge + Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Khaira, Cagiulla, Ty Rattie, Pulju, Rieder, Brodziak

D: Nurse, Klefboom, Larsson, Benning, Russel, Caleb Jones

G: Talbot+Koskinen


Moreover, he lost our only true top 2 D-man in Klefboom for no fault, and Larsson left not to have to deal with our fans.

Our fans simply do not remember how terrible our depth was, Rattie played for a while on the top line, and 3 of Lucic, Kassian, Chiason, Cagiulla and Rattie were in our top 6... Just think about that.

He somehow managed to get rid of the Lucic contract, and then added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm without subtracting anything of value (not that we had anything).... And he was patient with the young guys, not rushed them as we did in the past.

The Campbell trade and the Nurse contract were his big blunders, but with Nurse you have to ask yourself: would we be better without him and extra $$$$?

We can blame him for not getting a better goalie, and yes, he should had tried harder.... But true #1 are almost impossible to acquire.

IMO, KH was not as bad as our fans think. He was not excelent, but he was passable to good.

This narrative is so very incorrect. Holland didn’t take a non-playoff team and make them a playoff team- McDavid and Draisaitl went from scoring 100 points to being 120-150 point players. Draisaitl is a threat to score 50 every year and they have had the best PP over the past 5 years. That PP is coached by Gulutzan…a Chiarelli hire.

The bottom 6 in the last year of Chiarelli had a higher GF% than anything Holland put together outside of 2 seasons. Hyman was a Brad Holland add. Brad, a heavy user of analytics- tracked his underlying metrics and knew he was going to pop.

Kane- what a gross mismanagement of cap by Holland. San Jose was penalized for terminating Kane’s contract and had to make up for the shortfall in money to whoever offered Kane a contract. Oilers could have offered him 1M and San Jose had to make up the rest. Holland needed to be nice though. Horrendous move.

Chicago needed to dump Keith to sign Jones. Holland not only took on that bad contract- but gave up assets to do it. To add insult to injury- Jones was signed for 9.25M- which Holland decided was the market and gave Nurse that money too. To triple down- when Keith retired- he did t go after the league for the recapture penalty. Imagine that happening to Vegas.

He decided, and publicly said- you don’t go all in every year…in McDavid’s prime. By his own admission- he wanted to re-sign Tippett and let Woodcroft walk.

All in all, he has left the prospect pool bear, we have dead cap space and will be adding to it, he has signed bad contracts that are unmoveable. The coaching staff in place has no body that he brought on, the core of the team was drafted by Chiarelli. This Franchise has been set back by Holland. The next GM has a ton of work to do

 

[Fourier]

I fully expect a 2nd round pick from Columbus for compensation for Holland.


Lol jk. They only made the Oilers pay those stupid penalties.

For or to?????

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I fully expect a 2nd round pick from Columbus for compensation for Holland.


Lol jk. They only made the Oilers pay those stupid penalties.

Let’s see how the Oilers have been fondled by the league:

1) Chiarelli compensation to Boston, then right after they said no more compensatory picks.

2) Prorating Neal’s goal totals because he went on the IR at 18 goals and the league said he would have scored 20, so they gave Calgary the conditional second rounder even though he was on LTIR until after the season ended.

3) Wasn’t Chicago supposed to absorb Keith’s cap hit if he retired but for some reason Edmonton got stuck with it?

 

[Fishy McScales]

Let’s see how the Oilers have been fondled by the league:

1) Chiarelli compensation to Boston, then right after they said no more compensatory picks.

2) Prorating Neal’s goal totals because he went on the IR at 18 goals and the league said he would have scored 20, so they gave Calgary the conditional second rounder even though he was on LTIR until after the season ended.

3) Wasn’t Chicago supposed to absorb Keith’s cap hit if he retired but for some reason Edmonton got stuck with it?

Chicago got the cap recapture, but as part of that the Oilers actually should have gotten negative cap due to how the math worked out. They didn't, though, for reasons.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Chicago got the cap recapture, but as part of that the Oilers actually should have gotten negative cap due to how the math worked out. They didn't, though, for reasons.

That’s what it was, I recalled there being some sketchy detail that bent the Oilers over for no justifiable reason other than to say “we still hate you.”

 

[tiger_80]

Craig McTarded and Dallas Dickeans for Chris Knoblauch.

 

[yukoner88]

Yes!!! I knew that first would give the Oilers killer momentum!

All set up in the station and ready to go for the top of the hour

Craig McTarded and Dallas Dickeans for Chris Knoblauch.

What in the seriously blue f*** did I just read here?


I'm in the wrong thread, this is not the gdt

 

[Pavel10]

Eric tulsky.

 

[Pavel10]

Let’s see how the Oilers have been fondled by the league:

1) Chiarelli compensation to Boston, then right after they said no more compensatory picks.

2) Prorating Neal’s goal totals because he went on the IR at 18 goals and the league said he would have scored 20, so they gave Calgary the conditional second rounder even though he was on LTIR until after the season ended.

3) Wasn’t Chicago supposed to absorb Keith’s cap hit if he retired but for some reason Edmonton got stuck with it?

Oh and my very favorite. Oilers win the mcdavid draft lottery at #3. They tape the lottery and you can see Bettman holding in his anger "oh the Edmonton oilers" check it again "it's the Edmonton oilers"

League completely revamps draft so Edmonton can't win for next few years.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Oh and my very favorite. Oilers win the mcdavid draft lottery at #3. They tape the lottery and you can see Bettman holding in his anger "oh the Edmonton oilers" check it again "it's the Edmonton oilers"

League completely revamps draft so Edmonton can't win for next few years.

Lol, I loved seeing that video…he literally twists the paper and can almost see the steam coming out of his ears. I cannot find it now anywhere, I’ve looked and looked but YT was probably ordered it to take it down.