HOH Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All-Time

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,446
7,891
Regina, SK
The following is the still-ongoing list of the top pre-1926 (pre-merger) performers as determined by the History of Hockey community.

Please report any errors to @seventieslord

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]#[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Pos[/TD]
[TD]Born[/TD]
[TD]Birthplace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Frank Nighbor[/TD]
[TD]C/LW[/TD]
[TD]1893[/TD]
[TD]Pembroke, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Cyclone Taylor[/TD]
[TD]R/D[/TD]
[TD]1884[/TD]
[TD]Tara, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Newsy Lalonde[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1887[/TD]
[TD]Cornwall, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Sprague Cleghorn[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1890[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Georges Vezina[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]1887[/TD]
[TD]Chicoutimi, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Russell Bowie[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]1880[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Joe Malone[/TD]
[TD]C/LW[/TD]
[TD]1890[/TD]
[TD]Sillery, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Eddie Gerard[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1890[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Phillips[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD]1883[/TD]
[TD]Rat Portage, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Clint Benedict[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]1892[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Hugh Lehman[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]1885[/TD]
[TD]Pembroke, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Frank Fredrickson[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1895[/TD]
[TD]Winnipeg, MB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Hod Stuart[/TD]
[TD]CP[/TD]
[TD]1879[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Cy Denneny[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD]1891[/TD]
[TD]Farran's Point, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Georges Boucher[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1896[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Moose Johnson[/TD]
[TD]D/LW[/TD]
[TD]1886[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]Mickey MacKay[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]1894[/TD]
[TD]Chesley, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Frank McGee[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1882[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]Duke Keats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1895[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Lester Patrick[/TD]
[TD]D/LW[/TD]
[TD]1883[/TD]
[TD]Drummondville, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]Harry Cameron[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1890[/TD]
[TD]Pembroke, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Babe Dye[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1892[/TD]
[TD]Hamilton, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]Harvey Pulford[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]1875[/TD]
[TD]Toronto, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Frank Foyston[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1891[/TD]
[TD]Minesing, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]Mike Grant[/TD]
[TD]CP[/TD]
[TD]1873[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]Didier Pitre[/TD]
[TD]RW/D[/TD]
[TD]1883[/TD]
[TD]Valleyfield, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]Hap Holmes[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]1888[/TD]
[TD]Aurora, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]Art Ross[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1886[/TD]
[TD]Naughton, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]George Hay[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD]1898[/TD]
[TD]Listowel, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Percy LeSueur[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]1881[/TD]
[TD]Quebec, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]Weldy Young[/TD]
[TD]CP[/TD]
[TD]1871[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]Dan Bain[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1874[/TD]
[TD]Belleville, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]Alf Smith[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1873[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]Joe Simpson[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1893[/TD]
[TD]Selkirk, MB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]1888[/TD]
[TD]Whitefish River Valley, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]Paddy Moran[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]1877[/TD]
[TD]Quebec, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]Jack Campbell[/TD]
[TD]CP[/TD]
[TD]1866[/TD]
[TD]Edinburgh, Scotland[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1886[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1890[/TD]
[TD]Brandon, MB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]Herb Gardiner[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1891[/TD]
[TD]Winnipeg, MB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]Joe Hall[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1881[/TD]
[TD]Milwich, UK[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]
[TD]C/D[/TD]
[TD]1896[/TD]
[TD]Collingwood, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1885[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]Dick Irvin[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1892[/TD]
[TD]Hamilton, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]Bob MacDougall[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1876[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1887[/TD]
[TD]Benalla, AU[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD]1891[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]1884[/TD]
[TD]Kingston, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]Si Griffis[/TD]
[TD]D/R[/TD]
[TD]1883[/TD]
[TD]Onaga, KS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]Harry Oliver[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1898[/TD]
[TD]Selkirk, MB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1891[/TD]
[TD]Sault Ste Marie, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]52[/TD]
[TD]Punch Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1892[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]Allan Cameron[/TD]
[TD]CP[/TD]
[TD]1863[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]54[/TD]
[TD]Haviland Routh[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1871[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]C/R[/TD]
[TD]1883[/TD]
[TD]Montreal, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]Jack Marshall[/TD]
[TD]C/D[/TD]
[TD]1877[/TD]
[TD]St. Vallier, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]Lloyd Cook[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]1890[/TD]
[TD]Lynden, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]58[/TD]
[TD]Dolly Swift[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]1866[/TD]
[TD]Quebec, QC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]59[/TD]
[TD]Carson Cooper[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]1897[/TD]
[TD]Cornwall, ON[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]Dickie Boon[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
61​
[/TD]

[TD]Tom Paton[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
62​
[/TD]

[TD]Harry Trihey[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
63​
[/TD]

[TD]Dubbie Kerr[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
64​
[/TD]

[TD]Jack Adams[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
65​
[/TD]

[TD]Riley Hern[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
66​
[/TD]

[TD]Jack Darragh[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
67​
[/TD]

[TD]Bouse Hutton[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
68​
[/TD]

[TD]Harry Hyland[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
69​
[/TD]

[TD]Eddie Oatman[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
70​
[/TD]

[TD]Harry Smith[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Positions from memory to the best of my ability. Those who played into the age where D was D, overrode years where they may have been P/CP. I tried to be judicious assigning secondary positions, there has to be a high-profile case of the player having a different position for a full season or regularly swapped between them within multiple seasons. I'm trying to avoid listing a third position for anyone, but feel free to advise me of cases where you think it is necessary (and provide evidence).

Discussion threads:
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 1
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 2
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 3
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 4
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 5
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 6
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 7
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 8
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 9
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 10
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 11
Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 12

Aggregate list:



Voting results:


Individual voting records:
BenchBrawl
Black Gold Extractor
Dreakmur
Dr John Carlson
Habsfan18
ImporterExporter
jigglysquishy
Johnny Engine
nabby12
overpass
Professor What
ResilientBeast
rmartin65
seventieslord
tarheelhockey
TheDevilMadeMe
 
Last edited:
Birth places:

Frank Nighbor: Pembroke, ON
Cyclone Taylor: Tara, ON
Newsy Lalonde: Cornwall, ON
Sprague Cleghor: Montreal, QC
Georges Vezina: Chicoutimi, QC
Russell Bowie: Montreal, QC
Joe Malone: Sillery, QC
Eddie Gerard: Ottawa, ON
Tommy Phillips: Rat Portage, ON
Clint Benedict: Ottawa, ON
Hugh Lehman: Pembroke, ON
Frank Fredrickson: Winnipeg, MB
Hod Stuart: Ottawa, ON
Cy Denneny: Farran's Point, ON
Georges Boucher: Ottawa, ON
Moose Johnson: Montreal, QC
Mickey MacKay: Chesley, ON
Frank McGee: Ottawa, ON
Duke Keats: Montreal, QC
Lester Patrick: Drummondville, QC
Harry Cameron: Pembroke, ON
Babe Dye: Hamilton, ON
Harvey Pulford: Toronto, ON
Frank Foyston: Minesing, ON
Mike Grant: Montreal, QC
Didier Pitre: Valleyfield, QC
Hap Holmes: Aurora, ON
Art Ross: Naughton, ON
George Hay: Listowel, ON
Percy LeSueur: Quebec, QC
 
Birth places:

Frank Nighbor: Pembroke, ON
Cyclone Taylor: Tara, ON
Newsy Lalonde: Cornwall, ON
Sprague Cleghor: Montreal, QC
Georges Vezina: Chicoutimi, QC
Russell Bowie: Montreal, QC
Joe Malone: Sillery, QC
Eddie Gerard: Ottawa, ON
Tommy Phillips: Rat Portage, ON
Clint Benedict: Ottawa, ON
Hugh Lehman: Pembroke, ON
Frank Fredrickson: Winnipeg, MB
Hod Stuart: Ottawa, ON
Cy Denneny: Farran's Point, ON
Georges Boucher: Ottawa, ON
Moose Johnson: Montreal, QC
Mickey MacKay: Chesley, ON
Frank McGee: Ottawa, ON
Duke Keats: Montreal, QC
Lester Patrick: Drummondville, QC
Harry Cameron: Pembroke, ON
Babe Dye: Hamilton, ON
Harvey Pulford: Toronto, ON
Frank Foyston: Minesing, ON
Mike Grant: Montreal, QC
Didier Pitre: Valleyfield, QC
Hap Holmes: Aurora, ON
Art Ross: Naughton, ON
George Hay: Listowel, ON
Percy LeSueur: Quebec, QC
Jeeezus, 30 players in, and only one who wasn't born in Ontario or Quebec.
 
I've been browsing through the pre-consolidation project. I think this might be the most important project that HOH has ever taken on. There's been an enormous amount of information identified, and analyzed in a systematic way. I'm not aware of anybody else - an author, researcher, etc - ever having undertaken a project of this scope or scale.

The low level of participation is disappointing - and of course I'm one of the "regulars" who probably should have participated in this project. I've been spending less time on HFBoards in general lately. And this requires much more research, so it's hard to just "drop in". For example, I can stop by and put together a pretty good post about, say, the 2003 and 2004 Vezina trophy races with minimal time or effort (which I did last night). But doing a deep dive into the pros and cons of those who played 130 years ago - taking into account the rapid expansion of the talent pool, going through fragmentary and sometimes contradictory records, evaluating the strength of various rising and falling amateur leagues, considering the impact of significant rule changes - that requires much more effort.

I commend everyone who's participated in this one. A few decades from now, this could end up as HOH's "signature" project.
 
Looking at the list, I think the only players in the top 40 who aren't in Hall of Fame are Weldy Young and Bernie Morris (let me know if I missed anyone). Do we know why they weren't inducted into the Hall?
 
  • Like
Reactions: seventieslord
Looking at the list, I think the only players in the top 40 who aren't in Hall of Fame are Weldy Young and Bernie Morris (let me know if I missed anyone). Do we know why they weren't inducted into the Hall?
If I had to guess- Morris has the draft-dodger thing working against him. Young, I think, probably played the meaningful part of his career (aka his time with Ottawa HC) too early for people voting on the HHoF to be familiar with him. Very few 1890s (and 1880s) players are in the Hall, and I believe all of those that made it have a couple of Cups to their name. Young never played on a Cup winner, which makes it easier to forget him some 45+ years later.
 
Can we consider Nighbor, Taylor and Lalonde the Big 3?
Some might. I've been going back and forth on this one since you posted the question, and - right now - I'm leaning towards no.

There might be some dissent on Lalonde, mainly centered around the idea that the "big 3" shouldn't all be forwards born within a few years of each other.

Yeah, I'm sure there is some of that (even if Taylor got his start on D). And it does feel weird, right? But for me, having done more reading, I think Vezina and Bowie deserve another glance at #3.

For Bowie- there is evidence of his greatness in the writings of those who watched him play. Plus, if one of Lalonde's big things is that he led his league in scoring 7 times- the stats I've pulled from the original sources indicate that Bowie also led his league in points 7 times (with the caveat that there is more uncertainty for Bowie due to the lack of reliable reporting), and he did it in far fewer seasons (Bowie retired from Senior level hockey at 27; Lalonde played regularly at the top level until he was 37). One of my self-imposed projects over the next 6 months or so is to see if I can flesh this out, or if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

For Vezina- the level of praise he gets from the papers during and immediately after his career is unparalleled for a goalie for the era.
 
Our discussions and voting leaned more towards Nighbor and Taylor being a big two. Or more specifically, Nighbor the consensus number 1, Taylor the consensus number 2. And while Lalonde got the majority of votes for 3, Vezina, Cleghorn, and Bowie were all relatively close.

I can see arguments for Lalone at 4, even if I have him at 3. I really struggle to see Taylor anywhere besides 2.
 
Now that we're done, big shoutout to @seventieslord and @rmartin65 for running this. I know it's a ton of work so thank you for facilitating this.

Now that we're done, big shoutout to @seventieslord and @rmartin65 for running this. I know it's a ton of work so thank you for facilitating this.
I was just a role player doing the boring and relatively easy administrative stuff. The biggest shoutout of all goes to @rmartin65 who did the majority of the deep research that really drove this project.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad