Do you feel like Thomas caught lightning in a bottle a couple of times? It just doesn't make sense to me that he had the two years that he had. Maybe you'd even say that the performance wasn't there in those years and it was dumb luck?
You and I have very different ways of looking at this list I know, but we seem to be in agreement on Thomas now. I guess I'm wondering what's bringing us together here and why we're different from the rest of the group on this (at least by my impressions we are).
The reason why I treat this list like I do is because you get the luxury of lessening team effects. And very specifically, a situation like Thomas. Like, not to be ad populum about it...but come on, we know that he's rubbish, right? I'm not saying what happened didn't happen. But that's a really bad goalie...just like Cechmanek (who, depending on how you value things, has a better resume), just like two-time "save pct. superstar" Brian Elliott, etc.
Ya know, it's not like Thomas is the only bad goalie in history to have good things happen to him. That's the nature of the position, especially in the last 30 years.
I'm not sure which way to go with the post, to be honest. Do I go macro level and beat the drum of team effects on goalies or do I talk about Thomas? I mean, who really is on the fence about Thomas at this point? haha
You're either sticking to your guns because you thought he was good in 2011 and aren't open to evolving on that or you're a "don't care, just give me the stats and awards" type or you don't have time for him because he doesn't meet any of the following criteria:
- Sustained peak
- Long-term success (Not even predominantly an NHLer: 8.5 seasons in the minors, 7.5 in the NHL)
- Varied success in multiple environments
- Talent evaluation
- Backup goalie performs as well (or whatever)
- Level of competition for goaltending/very weak international record as he couldn't get ice time over many non-NHLers
- etc.
Two is a really low number. Elliott had two. Cechmanek had three in the NHL alone. Anything can happen in that time. Maruk had two 50-goal seasons and then was mostly just a 30ish goal guy. Jamie Benn has an 1st and 2nd place point finish but no other point per game finishes. Ryan Graves led the league in +/- and finished 9th another year, but he's like a 6/7 d-man and is a regular healthy scratch on one of the worst teams in the league at 29 years old.
It's not even like a hard two...it was non-consecutive seasons with 53 and 55 starts. It's not like he's throwing down 150 straight games of being diesel and then he has a playoff in there. It's a couple of 50 game spots, in the between, the rookie backup had a sub-2 GAA and led the league in save pct....but it's a couple of 50 game spots, a horribly uneven playoff where he gave up a ton of goals...and then another where they were upset by a fairly weak Carolina team thanks to his untidy keeping on Scott Walker (IIRC).
I think we all know the numbers with/without Julien
Tim Thomas - Not Julien |
Tim Thomas - W/Julien |
[td]63
[/td][td]67
[/td][td]18
[/td][td]430
[/td][td]8704
[/td][td]2.964
[/td][td]4278
[/td][td]4708
[/td][td]0.9087
[/td][td]4
[/td]
[td]180
[/td][td]99
[/td][td]31
[/td][td]705
[/td][td]18859
[/td][td]2.243
[/td][td]9011
[/td][td]9716
[/td][td]0.9274
[/td][td]33
[/td]
So, was it lightning in a bottle? I don't know...I don't think he played particularly well. It was very sloppy. Look at the amount of goals or in terms of the goals in individual games. Look at how many games in 2011 he gave up 4 and 5 goals in games vs. the goalies who won around him. It's massive. No one has ever won a Cup on averages or ratios. He put up slews of unwinnable games and just horrid goals based entirely on his horrible technique. The miracle is how much scoring Boston had to put up to overcome him. You see that stat line and think "oh, he gave up 2 goals per game - that's great!" Yeah, no. That's not what happened. He gave up 3 or more nine times. He gave up 4+ in 20% of those games. That's...really bad.
What's worse is that he has highlights because he wasn't in control. So, that adds something. Some folks like to claim that "it doesn't matter how they played" - and that's their right to feel that way - but part of the draw for some of those same people is him diving all over the place because it's approachable and people like to feel like a goalie is "working" instead of "just blocking".
We might be going about our list in different ways, our mindset might different...but Thomas crosses the suspension of disbelief in such a way that it's tough to reasonably accept him on this list with any logical consistency.
