HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 11

[Doctor No]

This is the Montreal Star the day after the Rangers eliminated the Canadiens in 1972 - you'd think if the Montreal fans were afraid of Giacomin, John Robertson could have fit at least one mention of that fact in here:

 

[jigglysquishy]

Since the merger in 1926 we have only inducted two non-NHLers (Tretiak and Holocek). Dzurilla is our next foray. I'm bringing some research into this from the 2012 project as I think he's worthy of discussion.

Vladimir Dzurilla

I don't have all the information I woud like to have, but from what I was able to gather on Dzurilla (*2nd August 1942):

-Starting goaltender for Slovan Bratisava, one of the top teams in the Czechoslovak elite league, from 1960-1961 on when he was 18 years old.
- Backup goaltender for the National Team in the 1963 and 1964 World Championships behind veterans Josef Mikoláš (63) and Vladimir Nadrchal (64).
- Shares the starting duties with Nadrchal at the 1965 WC, has an impressive tournament and is voted Best Goaltender and All-Star Goaltender.
- At 23 he is starting goalie for the National Team in 65-66. Holeček, who is 20 months younger than Dzurilla, enters the picture as backup.
- Misses most of the 66-67 season and doesn't play for the National Team. Injured?
- Back to health, he is the starter again from 1968-1970. All-Star Goaltender in the 1969 WC.
- From the same time on we finally have awards and votings from Czechoslovakia available. 68-69: Dzurilla 5th in Golden Stick (Zlata Hokejka) voting behind Suchý, JiřÃk and the HolÃk brothers. All-Star Goaltender. 69-70: 4th in Zlata Hokejka voting behind Suchý, Černý and Nedomanský. All-Star Goaltender.
- In 70-71 he doesn't play as much as before and misses the WC - possibly an injury in spring 1971? He drops to #11 in Zlata Hokejka voting. Holeček is 5th, voted All-Star Goaltender and becomes starter for the National Team with Dzurilla's backup at Bratislava, Marcel Sakáč, as backup.
- In 71-72 Dzurilla (29) bounces back to a 3rd place in Zlata Hokejka voting (behind PospÃÅ¡il and Ja.HolÃk), but Holeček is close behind (5th) and is voted All-Star goaltender. They share starting duties at the National Team with Dzurilla having the edge in the Olympics and Holeček in the WCs. Both were obviously considered to be more or less on par.
- Misses most of the 72-73 season. No Zlata Hokejka votes, doesn't play for the National Team. Injured? Outplayed at Bratislava by Marcel Sakač?
- In 1973 he leaves Bratislava and joins Brno. #31 in Zlata Hokejka voting in 73-74, not recalled to National Team. Same in 74-75.
- In 75-76 Dzurilla (33) bounces back. 9th in Zlata Hokejka voting, recalled to the National Team to play backup for Holeček at the 1976 WCs.
- In 76-77 he plays for Czechoslovakia at the Canada Cup and at the World Championships, overtaking Holeček in both tournaments. 6th in Zlata Hokejka voting (Holeček 8th), All-Star Goaltender, voted best goal tender by Tip Magazine.
- In 77-78 voted 15th for the Zlata Hokejka. Loses spot on the National Team.
- In 1978 he leaves Brno and Czechoslovakia (veteran players were allowed to go abroad by the Czechoslovak hockey federation) to play in West Germany. One season for Augsburg, three for Riessersee. Retirement in 1982.

This data suggests that Dzurilla was considered the best Czechoslovak Goaltender from 1965-1970 (minus the 66-67 injury season). In 64-65 he shared the best Czechoslovak Goaltender perception with Nadrchal and in 71-72 with Holeček. Then his stock dropped considerably until he had an impressive bounceback 75-77. But how much is the best Czechoslovak Goaltender during that time worth in an international comparison? Consider World Championship decorations:

1963: Seth Martin (best goaltender), Kjell Svensson (all-star)
1964: Seth Martin (both)
1965: Vladimir Dzurilla (both) - Seth Martin not there!
1966: Seth Martin (both)
1967: Carl Wetzel (both)
1968: Ken Broderick (both)
1969: Leif Holmqvist (best goaltender), Vladimir Dzurilla (all-star)
1970: Urpo Ylönen (best goaltender), Viktor Konovalenko (all-star) - Canada and the USA not there!

Is there a case for Dzurilla in the Top 40? I don't know, but Seth Martin is the dominant guy here and I don't see why Dzurilla should rank higher than him. A better comparison would be Ken Broderick: Dzurilla was considered better than Broderick in 1965, Broderick better than Dzurilla in 1968. Even if we take the level Tretiak demonstrated from 1972 on as an indication that European Goaltending took a considerable step forward between 1968 and 1972, I don't think that's enough to put Dzurilla ahead, especially since he didn't win any WC accolade in 1970.

International and European Domestic Accomplishments
CSSR

Vladimir Dzurilla
•CSSR Golden Stick 1st Among Goalies (1969, 1970, 1972, 1977)
•World Chanpionships Best Goalie (1965)
•World Championships All Star (1965, 1969)
•Three Gold Medals - starter in 1969, two behind Holecek

The Calgary Herald · ‎Sep 14, 1976

Vladimir ran out of miracles last night - he was merely a human being, with minor but obvious imperfections.

None of these words are intended to disparage Dzurilla who, last Thursday and throughout the round-robin phase of this tournament, provided that he is one of hockey's great goaltenders.

I think we can all be in agreement that he's behind Tretiak and Holocek (by quite a bit), but is he the next best non-NHL goalie post-1926? I like Seth Martin and the more I read the more I think I've underrated him. But I do think Dzurilla is ahead of Lindmark, Kralik, and Konovalenko.

I don't think he'll make my top half, but I do see myself ranking him.

He's a hard goalie to read, even discounting the non-NHL aspect. He's elite in the 60s in his early 20s as the clear best Czechoslovakian goalie, but then loses his starting position to Holocek. However, Holocek never firmly holds onto the job. Dzurilla and Holocek split starts at the 1976 Canada Cup, and Dzurilla generally outperformed him. He's a goalie of high and lows in a round where that's to be expected.

 

[blogofmike]

Middle of the pack isn't great... but I'll also go ahead and state again that goaltender stats aren't great. By your own links, Les Brinkley had a better SV% against the Habs in that time frame than Glen Hall, Jacques Plante, Gerry Cheevers, Roger Crozier, and Terry Sawchuk. Brinkley also had a better GAA than Sawchuk, Esposito, Crozier, and Vachon. I don't think we are feeling ready for Brinkley just yet, so perhaps we should take these stats with a large grain of salt.

If Les Binkley played that way against everybody he might make the list. A strong .915 save percentage against the Habs is offset by posting an .880 against the first two expansion years of the Buffalo Sabres.

Another case against goalie stats (or for, depending on your POV)- Mike Richter against the Detroit Red Wings. Using the same criteria (link):

Richter is 58th in save percentage and 61st in GAA.

So, to compare Giacomin against the Habs and Richter against the Red Wings:

Name	Save Percentage Rank	GAA Rank
Giacomin	18th	14th
Richter	58th	61st

If the Habs ate Giacomin's lunch, I think we can say Richter was similarly victimized by Detroit.

Or we can get away from how players fared against one team and look more at overall performances.

Here's the 1990s: NHL Stats

Hey look, Hasek, Brodeur and Roy on top.

Richter's .905 is solid, and comparable to Vanbiesbrouck (.906) and Belfour (.906). Also Kolzig shows up here with a .904, but given the timing of their games, I'd say Richter's numbers are a tad better at first glance.

Or put another way, over the 1990s, he has a GA-% of 91. That's a solid 10-year average, considering Giacomin only has 2 individual seasons better than that.

Yeah, Giacomin did not perform well in the playoffs. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

There are 10 guys listed here who did better, and deserve votes more than him.

Yes, Giacomin played poorly in the playoffs. That should (has, and does) count against him. However, he has the best remaining post-season all star record. That should (has, and does) count in his favor.

The All-Star record is his entire case. That's a questionable stat once you dig in and see it's basically a GP trophy (for Giacomin).

Fast Eddie gets a 1st AS nomination as the only 30-win goalie win a league where splitting the schedule is becoming normalized.

Does that make 1967 Giacomin more valuable than Mike Richter in 1994? 4th in All star votes and 6th in Vezina votes. Here are the Vezina vote getters:

EDIT here is a link: 1993-94 NHL Awards Voting | Hockey-Reference.com

I apologize to anyone who saw this when it was a table...

Richter also leads the NHL in wins, but by golly, that's competition that's miles ahead of a half season of Dennis DeJordy (0 1st-half votes) and half-season of Charlie Hodge (0 2nd-half votes), the goalies who finished 2nd in each half.

THEN you combine that with Giacomin having a rough time in the playoffs (understandable given his team strength, but it did feed into his reputation as a choker), and Mike Richter being 1994 Mike Richter (Looks like 18 Quality Starts in 23 games, 16.7 GSAA in 23 games, plenty of good press quotes if you want to look).

I don't know how you look at that and conclude that Eddie Giacomin was anywhere close to Mike Richter in terms of quality, even if he gets the 1st Team All-Star nod.

Couple that with Richter being the reason for Vanbiesbrouck having virtually no international goaltending experience after 1987, because Richter was getting praised as the guy leading Team USA to their best finishes ever. Look at the highlights of 1996. For all the big names on the blue line, they left their boy on an island a lot - and he delivered (as the equivalent of a 1st team All Star in 1996 and 2002 if that's what floats your boat).



Yeah there's a reason that guy is one of the best penalty shot stoppers of all-time.