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HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 10 | Page 4 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 10

I'll definitely echo the Richter > Giacomin sentiment. No doubt in my mind that Richter was better and actually showed it throughout his career.

Richter kind of slided down along with Rangers in late 90s/early 00s but he's absolutely a top-60 goalie at minimum.
 
Started down the road of a longer Richter post, but then the board went all funhouse mirror. Let's do an abbreviated deeper look at Richter, maybe there's more than meets the eye here...

One of the more unique qualities to Richter is how he married his 80s, "ah, I'll just go all out for the puck carrier...YOLO" style to the 90s and into the DPE/butterfly proliferation era. I think this might be the first time I ever give a thought to Richter as an adapter. Let's see if it holds...



First thing that you see about Richter, as I mentioned, is the aggressiveness. Being hyper aggressive has pros and cons just like it does as a skater. Where it gets propped up is in "we got your back and we got your rebounds" defensive situations. I mean, how many times have you tapped your goalie on the pads going into a game and said, "hey, just make the first save...we got you"... and then only dip below the top of your own circles for faceoffs? haha, it happens. But in the NHL, there's a different standard...and if you have a plan - a plan that includes the strengths and weaknesses of your goalie - you can make it work.

Anyway...

1736556757483.png

This is a pretty low risk situation here because player [blurry], the LHS with the puck right here is cocked and loaded and he doesn't seem prepared to cut to the middle at all (look at where the weight is). Look at Richter, he's fully outside the crease and then some. As you'd expect from a largely-standup goalie his "percentages" lie in his shoulders and hands, not his hips.

What do you like about this?

One, looks pretty good on the angle with a slight cheat to his blocker side to my eye. So, he'll flash the leather if the situation warrants. Two, no overlap. Richter wasn't some 6'4" behemoth, so at some point you have to take up some of the net...and he does that to the best of his ability here. Blocker isn't down the front of his pants, glove is more or less where you'd expect for this style (it's hard to be totally glove up and open with your shoulders hunched forward).

Another aspect is the traffic and deflection of the Canuck going to the net (32?). I don't know what the goalies that hang around HoH think, but I'm a big fan of meeting traffic and deflection opportunities at the point of attack as best as I can. I know at lower levels, you don't want to get tied up in traffic because you're not gonna get GI in a purely-live reffing situation, but I still like to encourage guys to go play in traffic. I think it gives you a chance in an otherwise no/low-win situation.

I gotta admire the willingness to front the threat going to the net too as part of the process. But, too, look at the Rangers on the far post. That's a "we got your back" position for sure. So, Richter has the confidence that he can give up a rebound...a bad rebound and maybe survive it. That's not nothing.

Heh, well, when you let it roll...Richter does drop into a butterfly save there and it goes through him, but narrowly misses. Either way, it's a good summation of his initial setup.

He just loves being way out of the crease, he loves to front things.



Kinda reminds this Pens fan of the game 4 goal by Francis in '92 that changed the series. Didn't make the same mistake this time. Directs the rebound appropriately to boot.

##

The key about aggressive play is that you have to be able to track and you have to be able to skate, right? And it's the same for skaters. When Erik Karlsson...maybe a less polarizing name...when Miro Heiskanen pinches down or when Hughes or Makar, it's a lot different than when some other guys take chances. Why? Well, the three (four) guys I named can all really skate. And then, too, they're all very smart. Anyone can get anywhere fast, but is it where you need to be? For them, yes. For someone like, I don't know, Mike Matheson (?) maybe not so much on the positioning, but he has some serious wheels.

Ok, so same thing for goalies. It looks really silly to some of us watching Reggie Lemelin come charging out at Gretzky, watching Lemelin slide out of frame, and 99 sliding into an empty net. This is where RIchter brings that thought process to a new level. Watch here...



When this puck gets picked up by the late RHS, Richter is eclipsing the bottom of the circles. If he slides into that (butterfly or otherwise), this is one of those "empty net" goals that we saw Glenn Anderson make look easy. But watch Richter track this play, remains on his skates, tracks well, adjusts his crease depth. As this puck gets to the dot (which is sort of the last exit before your chances of scoring go way down as a puck holder), Richter is actually back at the top of his crease.

You see the shooter decides to take the exit and he wings that backhander against the momentum of the goalie. Richter is with it though and he makes a fine save. That shooter is likely a guy who has been pro for 5 or more years, if I had to guess. That probably goes in when he came into the league.

So the adaptability of Richter, who is a 1985 (!) pick, still holds.

But when the "help" erodes and he's left to his own devices, it can come apart for him pretty quickly...





You watch those last two clips from the angles, where you see that maybe it was easier to get behind the Rangers D, it was easier to beat the Rangers back to their net in '97 than it was in '94, perhaps.

And even going back to '94 for a minute, pucks still got through him and it just made you go, "hmmm..."

Here we go, Rangers have won 3 straight. They erased a 3-0 Vancouver lead in the last 6 minutes, including Messier tying the game at home on the last shift. Here comes Dave Babych from a fairly weak angle...



Part of a five-goal Vancouver 3rd period to send it back to Vancouver for game 6. It's just always been something looming in his game...

THN Headline:

Tender knee, soft goals plague Rangers’ Richter​


1994 THN article: He is mentally tougher, but he has had some problems with long shots...

2000 Daily News article: "“I thought the game in Phoenix was a huge step forward,” Low said of a 3-1 loss Jan. 4 in which the Coyotes’ third goal was an empty-netter. “With the exception that there have been a couple of bad goals of the backhand variety – and those get you anyway."

And on and on, you can see it in his year to year play...it was tough. It's an "ifs and buts" thing, but he could have had a real strong prime from '91 to '97...but in there, he just absolutely kills you too...'92 loses to Lemieux-less Pens, he was awful in '95, in '96 his regular season was unimpressive, but then he wins the World Cup, in '97 he was strong and was great through two rounds, but couldn't be hit with a puck against Philadelphia.

Doing a deeper dive, would I want to change his 69th place tag that I gave him on my prelim? Maybe. But not by a ton, but maybe I'd put him more closer to this group in the high 50s/low 60s of guys who had athleticism but also left you scratching your head sometimes about stuff they'd give up...

Pekka Rinne
Arturs Irbe
Marty Turco
Charlie Hodge
Sean Burke
Tomas Vokoun
 
Giacomin was the Belfour of his era: great but overshadowed.

Honestly, the only guy I'm sure I like Thomas more than is Vernon. Make of that what you will. I'm not a fan or Vernon at all though. I don't think Thomas belongs in the Hall, but I'd put him in over Vernon. He's one of the worst inductions we've seen, imo.
Then how about neither.
 
As I see it now...

Quite clear for the top of the ballot: Fleury, Rask, Shestyorkin
Quite clear for NR: Cheevers, Rollins, Thomas

I keep going back to this, but I re-read some of the research from the 2012 goalie project. I'm not convinced that Alec Connell was better than John Ross Roach. At the very least, they probably shouldn't get too far away from each other.

There's no case for Chabot, right?

No reason for Giacomin or Vernon right now. I'd rather give those spots to Nabokov and Miller. I'll find a spot somewhere on my ballot for big, slow, positionally sound Olaf Kolzig somewhere...I'll take that over guys that actively slide out of the net haha
 

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