HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 10

[MadArcand]

I feel that Fleury is two tiers above Miller. As for the Richter question... how many playoff series has he singlehandedly lost for his team?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I realize we all lived through Miller's career, but I'm having a very hard time placing him. I mean, of the guys whose careers I've lived through, Miller is the one I remember the least. I remember that brief period of time where he was being talked about as the best in the world and then.... well, let's say that I was shocked to see how recently he was active when I took a glance at HR. It's almost like the inverse MAF, right? Miller had that very high peak, but it was short-lived. I'd argue MAF didn't really peak all that high, but he was consistently in that second/third tier forever. I think I like MAF better right now, but I'm interested to read others' thoughts. Giacomin... he's been up for a few rounds, so he must have had strong support on the preliminary lists, but he's not gaining much traction. Does anyone have an inclination to make a case for him this round?

I feel like Kerr hasn't really been discussed all that much.

What's the case for Vernon except for some strong playoffs? In that line of thought, though, why would I have Richter above Vernon?

Four seasons from 1966-67 to 1969-70 Giacomin played in 274 of the Rangers 290 games. The Rangers made the playoffs every season after missing the playoffs 7 of the previous 8 years. They wouldn't missed the playoffs again until 1975, the year they traded him. 1966-67 was the last season of the original 6 and Giacomin was the first team all-star goalie and came in 2nd in Hart voting to Stan Mikita. In his next 4 seasons Giacomin was 2nd team all-star 3 times and once again a first team all-star in 1970-71. There was a time he was considered the best in the game.

 

[seventieslord]

Personally, I'm very ready for Giacomin. The all-star recognition comes with a caveat, but I don't see how anyone else's is close. Plus his generation is really under-represented.

 

[rmartin65]

Personally, I'm very ready for Giacomin. The all-star recognition comes with a caveat, but I don't see how anyone else's is close.

His all star record is probably the best we'll see for the remainder of the project, right?

Plus his generation is really under-represented.

It's interesting, because while I agree his generation/age-cohort is underrepresented, I don't necessarily think his timeline is, if that makes sense. We have a lot of 60s and 70s seasons covered by goalies on our list- especially 70s goalies. I'll re-do my excel sheet if the career start/end years that @Dr John Carlson provides for Moran/Rayner/Rinne/Connell/Liut differ from what I have gathered from Wiki, but here is what the breakdown looks like (same caveats as last time- it doesn't account for career breaks, starting years vs backup years, non-NHL seasons count, etc):

Total Calendar Years Played In by Players on Our List	859
Average per Decade	57.27
Average w/out 1800s	66.08

Decade	Calendar Years Played In	Percent	% of Average	% of Average w/out 1800s
1880s	0	0.00	0.00	N/A
1890s	0	0.00	0.00	N/A
1900s	19	2.21	33.18	28.75
1910s	57	6.64	99.53	86.26
1920s	72	8.38	125.73	108.96
1930s	52	6.05	90.80	78.70
1940s	57	6.64	99.53	86.26
1950s	70	8.15	122.24	105.94
1960s	74	8.61	129.22	111.99
1970s	86	10.01	150.17	130.15
1980s	77	8.96	134.46	116.53
1990s	85	9.90	148.43	128.64
2000s	94	10.94	164.14	142.26
2010s	86	10.01	150.17	130.15
2020s	30	3.49	52.39	45.40

Like I said (and allowing for a reasonable margin of error), the 60s and 70s are pretty well represented, even if the 1934-1944 birth years are not.

That said- Giacomin was pretty high on my ballot last round, and he's pretty high on my ballot this round right now.

 

[Professor What]

I question the idea that Miller was ever the best goalie in the world, because if it happened, it was very fleeting.

As for Giacomin, I'm ready for him by now. I've got him top 5 for this round. In retrospect, I think I'm more surprised that he came up when he did. I don't necessarily feel that thoughts on him soured. But anyway, time he goes, I think.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Mike Vernon Select Playoff Games

1986 Playoffs
Calgary beats Winnipeg 5-1 in a best-of-five series
Shots: Flames 28 Jets 23
Flames 1 Jets 0

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 10, 1986

For Mike Vernon, the hardest part of Wednesday's 5-1 win over Winnipeg Jets wasn't the shots he faced. It was the ones he didn't face. The Jets directed only 10 shots in two periods towards Vernon, the Calgary Flames' rookie goaltender - a shocking lack of work that made it difficult for him to keep his concentration.

Flames win 6-4
Shots: Flames 32 Jets 37
Flames 2 Jets 0

Edmonton Journal · ‎Apr 11, 1986

For the second straight game, Vernon played well for the Flames, but the Jets' starting goaltender failed to finish the game.

Flames win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Flames 43 Jets 32
Flames 3 Jets 0

Edmonton Journal · ‎Apr 13, 1986

Vernon foiled several Jets, including Dale Hawerchuk.

Vernon is spoken of well. Even though the scores are close, newspapers make it seem like a dominant victory for Calgary.

1986 Division Finals
Flames beat Oilers 4-1
Shots: Flames 33 Oilers 31
Flames 1 Oilers 0

Reading Eagle · ‎Apr 19, 1986

They got excellent goaltending from rookie Mike Vernon

Vernon, was sharp stopping 31 shots. Vernon has given the Flames confidence after showing the poise of a veteran through the first-round sweep of Winnipeg.

Oilers win 6-5 in OT
Shots: Flames 31 Oilers 29
Flames 1 Oilers 1

Vernon missed the game with a sprained knee

Flames win 3-2
Shots: Flames 38 Oilers 19
Flames 2 Oilers 1

The Phoenix · ‎Apr 23, 1986

Vernon...credited the checking of his defencemen for keeping the number of good Edmonton shots down to a minimum. "I don't think they had more than a handful of good opportunities all night and that's the key," Vernon said. "We really shut them down."

Oilers win 7-4
Shots: Flames 40 Oilers 27
Flames 2 Oilers 2

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 25, 1986

Following Gretzky's third goal, Flames' coach Bob Johnson replaced Bernon with Reggie Lemelin. Vernon wasn't as crisp as he had been in previous games in the series, but he didn't cost the Flames the game. Calgary's not-so-special teams did.

Flames win 4-1
Shots: Flames 32 Oilers 31
Flames 3 Oilers 2

The Times-News · ‎Apr 27, 1986

But Vernon, shaky in Game 4, was stronger in Game 5. Although Edmonton didn't get an enormous number of shots on him in the final period, the ones they did get were either screened or from point-blank range. None got by Vernon.

By the midway point of the period both Vernon and Fuhr found themselves bailing their teams out in a wide-open shoot-out.

Oilers win 5-2
Shots: Flames 24 Oilers 38
Flames 3 Oilers 3

The Phoenix · ‎Apr 29, 1986

The Oilers dominated the third period, outshooting Calgary 16-7 and eventually wearing down goaltender Mike Vernon. Vernon made four stunning saves in the first six minutes before Gretzky created a three-on-two break with Anderson and Paul Coffey.

Throughout the [first period] only the superb play of Vernon kept the game scoreless.

Flames win 3-2
Shots: Flames 21 Oilers 21
Flames 4 Oilers 3

The Leader-Post · ‎May 1, 1986

The Oilers were on their heels throughout the opening period. They didn't get a shot on Mike Vernon until almost nine minutes had gone in the period.

The Oilers couldn't carry the momentum over into the third period. They managed only six shots on Vernon in the third period, mesmerized and stymied by the Calgary defence.

Neither Fuhr nor Vernon were pressed from start to finish, but in this game it was Vernon who had the edge.

A good series. Lots of Flames get praised (Suter, Reinhart, Vernon, Loob, Mullen) even if Gretzky is the clear best player in the series. Vernon generally outplays Fuhr.


1986 Conference Finals
St. Louis beats Calgary 3-2
Shots: Flames 36 Blues 35
Flames 0 Blues 1

No relevant comments

Flames win 8-2
Shots: Flames 39 Blues 22
Flames 2 Blues 1

No relevant comments. Media is focused on Mike Eaves and Doug Risebrough.

Flames win 5-3
Shots: Flames 34 Blues 26
Flames 2 Blues 1

No relevant comments

Blues win 5-2
Shots: Flames 32 Blues 33
Flames 2 Blues 2

No relevant comments

Flames win 4-2
Shots: Flames 29 Blues 21
Flames 3 Blues 2

The Day · ‎May 11, 1986

Mike Vernon had to be extremely sharp to foil Herb Raglan twice and Eddy Beers and Rick Meagher once each.

Blues win 6-5 in OT
Shots: Flames 42 Blues 37
Flames 3 Blues 3

Sunday Herald · ‎May 13, 1986

The hockey world began to fall apart for the Flames, when normally reliable goalie Mike Vernon, kicked a rebound on to Brian Sutter's stick and the Blues' captains cored to make the score 5-3.

Slid the puck past the napping Vernon.

How will the Flames react emotionally when they know they should have won? How will Mike Vernon regain his, knowing he could have been the difference?

Flames win 2-1
Shots: Flames 25 Blues 18
Flames 4 Blues 3

The Vancouver Sun · ‎May 15, 1986

Mike Vernon faced 18 shots. "They played outstanding defence," admitted Blues' Bernie Federko, who earned an assist on Eddy Beers' late goal to move into tie for the playoff lead with. "We tried to get two guys in but it was impossible. We had trouble getting to centre to dump the puck in. And when we did they always had their wingers back."

The Flames, who blew a three-goal lead in the final 12 minutes of game six and lost 6-5 in overtime, protected Vernon so well the Blues had only three scoring chances in the final period.

Doug Risebrough the most praised Flame, followed by Al Macinnis. Vernon barely mentioned outside when he is scored on. He would not be in the most five praised Flames—Bernie Federko probably the most overall praised player.

I get the impression the Flames underperformed this series and should have won in less than 7. Partially some lazy games, partially Vernon playing weak, partially Blues playing above their level.


1986 Stanley Cup Finals
Flames beat Habs 5-2
Shots: Flames 29 Habs 24
Flames 1 Habs 0

The Windsor Star · ‎May 17, 1986

Roy and Calgary goaltender Mike Vernon both had a lot of anxious moments in the period and both responded well against some superb scoring chances.

Habs win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Flames 22 Habs 35
Flames 1 Habs 1

Gettysburg Times · ‎May 19, 1986

Calgary Coach Bob Johnson said it "was a shame to waste a great performance by Mike Vernon. They created a lot of scoring opportunities, but Mike was there for us."

The Flames were outshot 14-8 in the first period, yet held a 1-0 lead thanks to an acrobatic shot by John Tonelli and some outstanding goaltending by Vernon.

Habs win 5-3
Shots: Flames 26 Habs 29
Flames 1 Habs 2

The Montreal Gazette · ‎May 21, 1986

Nobody had a better view of the key moments in last night's game - the Canadiens three goals in 68 seconds late in the first period - than the man who let them in, Flames starting goaltender Mike Vernon.

Vernon, a leading candidate for the Conn Smythe Trophy, had no chance on the three first period goals

Habs win 1-0
Shots: Flames 15 Habs 24
Flames 1 Habs 3

The Montreal Gazette · ‎May 23, 1986

Mike Vernon had played splendidly to keep the Canadiens scoreless, but when Risebrough sent what was to have been a clearing pass on to Lemieux's stick, the rookie right winter lashed a 25-footer beyond Vernon.

Habs win 4-3
Shots: Flames 33 Habs 33
Flames 1 Habs 4

The Montreal Gazette · ‎May 26, 1986

Mike Vernon, the other rookie goaltender whose playoff brilliance carried his team into the final.

Carbonneau, Roy and Chelios are the most praised players in the series. Lots of Habs get praise, including Naslund, Gainey, and Lemieux. MacInnis or Vernon are probably the most praised Flames, but Montreal cleanly outplays Calgary. Part of me reads the 1986 Montreal run as a Carbonneau Conn Smythe.

Vernon has a good playoff run, and is probably the most praised Flame overall (close with MacInnis). The 1986 Flames seem like a weird team, a blend of very old and very young, that plays down to the Blues, plays up to the Oilers, but is no match for the defensive depth of Montreal.


1989 Playoffs
Vancouver beats Calgary 4-3 in OT
Shots: Flames 46 Canucks 31
Flames 0 Canucks 1

No relevant comments

Calgary wins 5-2
Shots: Flames 37 Canucks 25
Flames 1 Canucks 1

Record-Journal · ‎Apr 7, 1989

The Flames, who finished first in the overall NHL standings and 43 points ahead of the Canucks, drove Game 1 hero Kirk McLean to the bench after two periods, beating him four times on 28 shots. Mike Vernon, beaten in Game 1, stopped 23 shots for Calgary.

Calgary wins 4-0
Shots: Flames 15 Canucks 21
Flames 2 Canucks 1

No relevant comments

Canucks win 5-3
Shots: Flames 29 Canucks 30
Flames 2 Canucks 2

The Evening News · ‎Apr 10, 1989

The Canucks solved Calgary goalie Mike Vernon, who was replaced by Rick Wamsley after two periods with Calgary trailing 3-0.

Calgary wins 4-0
Shots: Flames 40 Canucks 18
Flames 3 Canucks 2

The Pittsburgh Press · ‎Apr 12, 1989

Vernon, who led the league this season with 37 victories, stopped 18 shots. The Flames had 40 shots. "The defense cleared a lot of their forwards in front of the net, leaving me a nice lane to focus on the puck," Vernon said. "It was a nice game to play tonight."

Canucks win 6-3
Shots: Flames 32 Canucks 24
Flames 3 Canucks 3

No relevant comments

Calgary wins 4-3 in OT
Shots: Flames 46 Canucks 45
Flames 4 Canucks 3

The Evening News · ‎Apr 16, 1989

Both McLean and Calgary goalie Mike Vernon made several brilliant saves to keep the overtime going.

Calgary comes in as a heavy favourite and kind of gets dragged into the mud. McLean has some heroic games, though is very inconsistent. MacInnis, Loob, Vernon, and Nieuwendyk all praised, but it does come across as a series people expected to not be close.


1989 Division Finals
Calgary beats LA 4-3 in OT
Shots: Flames 47 Kings 27
Flames 1 Kings 0

The Hour · ‎Apr 19, 1989

Mike Vernon said. "We just kept coming at them. "Maybe they were a little tired or whatever, but in the third period I think we contained them the whole way." Vernon said. "They only had three scoring opportunities in the third period."

Flames win 8-3
Shots: Flames 52 Kings 23
Flames 2 Kings 0

No relevant comments

Flames win 5-2
Shots: Flames 25 Kings 23
Flames 3 Kings 0

No relevant comments

Flames win 5-3
Shots: Flames 25 Kings 23
Flames 4 Kings 0

Reading Eagle · ‎Apr 25, 1989

Joe Mullen and Gary Roberts scored twice Monday night as the Flames, backed by Mike Vernon's solid goaltending, blunted Wayne Gretzky's record-setting performance.

Little talk about the Flames in general. Media is focused on Gretzky breaking Bossy's playoff goal record. Maybe Gilmour is most praised? It's hard to say as the games are not covered well. Vernon well praised in the final game, but this series was not even close.


1989 Conference Final
Calgary wins 3-0
Shots: Flames 39 Hawks 19
Flames 1 Hawks 0

The Prescott Courier · ‎May 3, 1989

Mike Vernon barely broke a sweat while recording his third playoff shutout

Hawks win 4-2
Shots: Flames 24 Hawks 22
Flames 1 Hawks 1

No relevant comments

Flames win 5-2
Shots: Flames 22 Hawks 26
Flames 2 Hawks 1

No relevant comments

Flames win 2-1 in OT
Shots: Flames 32 Hawks 25
Flames 3 Hawks 1

The Lewiston Journal · ‎May 9, 1989

Both Chevrier and Calgary's Mike Vernon were magnificent in goal.

Vernon and Chevrier provided barbed-wire protection in goal.

Flames win 3-1
Shots: Flames 43 Hawks 21
Flames 4 Hawks 1

The Prescott Courier · ‎May 11, 1989

Mike Vernon, who spoiled his own shutout by putting Hudson's pass from the corner into the net.

Lots of Flames get praise here. MacInnis definitely the star, but Gimour, Loob, Mullen, Nieuwendyk all get praise. The defensive depth is on display, with shot impression being noted. The shot differential this series is pretty heavy. Vernon doesn't get much praise.


1989 Stanley Cup Finals
Flames beat Habs 3-2
Shots: Flames 35 Habs 31
Flames 1 Habs 0

Mohave Daily Miner · ‎May 15, 1989 ·

Vernon Turns In Stellar Net Outing for Flames

Mike Vernon made some big saves the last two periods.

Habs win 4-2
Shots: Flames 32 Habs 23
Flames 1 Habs 1

No relevant comments

Habs win 4-3 in double OT
Shots: Flames 37 Habs 35
Flames 1 Habs 2

No relevant comments

Flames win 4-2
Shots: Flames 34 Habs 19
Flames 2 Habs 2

The Spokesman-Review · ‎May 22, 1989

Vernon Sparkles as Flames Knot Series

Calgary capitalized on Montreal mistakes and goalie Mike Vernon didn't make many when the Flames faltered. Vernon finally got the best of Canadiens' netminder Patrick Roy in the battle of the NHL's best goalies.

"Mike Vernon held the fort tonight when we had out rocky spots," Flames coach Terry Crisp said. "He played a very solid game in the net tonight as he's done all season. The same as Roy."

Flames win 3-2
Shots: Flames 28 Habs 28
Flames 3 Habs 2

The Bryan Times · ‎May 24, 1989

Vernon stopped 11 shots in the final period, including an outstanding stick save on Brian Skrudland with two minutes left.

Flames win 4-2
Shots: Flames 18 Habs 22
Flames 4 Habs 2

The Item · ‎May 26, 1989 ·

Montreal's Ryan Walter said. "Defensively they were tougher than I expected. Their forwards come back all the way into the defensive zone. Mike Vernon makes all the big saves. And their defensemen just dump the puck into our end.

This is Vernon's most praised series this run, but MacInnis is still the star. Mullen is highly praised too, but it's another depth show. Fleury is listed as only 5'5". Lots of praise to Montreal too, from Roy to Chelios to Robinson to Lemieux. I don't think Vernon was a serious Smythe contender this run. If I had to rank the most praised players this series I would go, MacInnis, Chelios, Roy, Gilmour, Mullen, Vernon.



1995 Playoffs
Red Wings beat Dallas 4-3
Shots: Wings 37 Stars 20
Wings 1 Stars 0

No relevant comments

Wings win 4-1
Shots: Wings 29 Stars 21
Wings 2 Stars 0

The Argus-Press · ‎May 10, 1995

Nicklas Lidstrom scored two power-play goals and netminder Mike Vernon did the rest.

Vernon helped Calgary win the Stanley Cup in 1989, but four first-round exits in the next five years led to his exit from the Flames.

Red Wings win 5-1
Shots: Wings 37 Stars 24
Wings 3 Stars 0

No relevant comments

Stars win 4-1
Shots: Wings 35 Stars 24
Wings 3 Stars 1

No relevant comments

Wings win 3-1
Shots: Wings 35 Stars 24
Wings 4 Stars 1

Toledo Blade · ‎May 16, 1995

Detroit's immediate future was boosted by the play of goaltender Mike Vernon. The Wings' starter for all five playoff games made 24 saves in the victory. He had to perform well; Moog was outstanding again, stopping 37 shots last night.

Hard to pick a single play on Detroit. They work the Stars this series. Moog more praised than Vernon.

1995 Semifinals
Detroit beats San Jose 6-0
Shots: Wings 33 Sharks 15
Wings 1 Sharks 0

Daily Union · ‎May 22, 1995

Mike Vernon made 15 saves in his first playoff shutout since a 1-0 victory over Chicago in 1989. Vernon was also in goal when the Red Wings shut out San Jose 3-0 on April 13.

Wings win 6-2
Shots: Wings 46 Sharks 17
Wings 2 Sharks 0

The News · ‎May 24, 1995

Detroit had the first nine shots on goal, outshot the Sharks 21-8 in the first period, 20-5 in the second, and 46-17 for the game. When the Sharks did manage a quality shot, Mike Vernon would turn it away.

Detroit wins 6-2
Shots: Wings 36 Sharks 12
Wings 3 Sharks 0

No relevant comments

Red Wings win 6-2
Shots: Wings 32 Sharks 17
Wings 4 Sharks 0

No relevant comments.

This series is a spanking. 24-4 in goals. 147-61 in shots. Media focus is on Yzerman's injury in game 4. No single player stands out. But Fedorov, Lidstrom, Yzerman, Coffey, Kozlov, Ciccarelli all get noted praise.

1995 Conference Finals
Detroit beats Chicago 2-1 in OT
Shots: Wings 24 Hawks 14
Wings 1 Hawks 0

No relevant comments.

Wings win 3-2
Shots: Wings 38 Hawks 20
Wings 2 Hawks 0

The Hour · ‎Jun 5, 1995

The Chicago Blackhawks ran into Mike Vernon. Then they ran into his goalpost. The combination was too much for them to overcome, leaving them with a two-game deficit.

Red Wings win 4-3 in double OT. Hawks only managed 16 shots in regulation.
Shots: Wings 51 Hawks 29
Wings 3 Hawks 0

No relevant comments.

Hawks win 5-2
Shots: Wings 23 Hawks 24
Wings 3 Hawks 1

Vernon is checked 10 seconds into the game and is replaced by Osgood after giving up 4 goals on 10 shots. Lets in a 40-foot floater by Murphy.

Wings win 2-1 in double OT
Shots: Wings 47 Hawks 26
Wings 4 Hawks 1

The Hour · ‎Jun 12, 1995

[Belfour] played great, but so did Vernie, so we just kept throwing the puck at the net," said Detroit captain Steve Yzerman.

Belfour was spectacular in Game 5.

Not much praise for Vernon this series. Belfour gets some very heavy praise. Detroit thoroughly outplays Chicago.

1995 Stanley Cup Finals
Devils win 2-1
Shots: Wings 17 Devils 28
Wings 0 Devils 1

No relevant comments

Devils win 4-2
Shots: Wings 18 Devils 22
Wings 0 Devils 2

The Day · ‎Jun 21, 1995

Vernon stopped the shot, but didn't have his proper balance when he made the save. It was a bad rebound that Dowd easily slid in.

Devils win 5-2
Shots: Wings 24 Devils 31
Wings 0 Devils 3

The Argus-Press · ‎Jun 23, 1995

A sharp night by Martin Brodeur and an off night by Mike Vernon put the Detroit Red Wings on the critical list.

Vernon didn't look sharp, either, when Neal Broten scored on a 40-footer.

Vernon gave up four goals on 20 shots.

"Mike didn't have his best game," Detroit forward Dino Ciccarelli said.

Devils win 5-2
Shots: Wings 16 Devils 26
Wings 0 Devils 4

No relevant comments.


Lots is made of the Devils' trapping style, the calmness of Brodeur, and clutchness of Claude Lemieux. Detroit is talked about as a complete collapse. Sounds like Vernon had a few bad goals this series and was probably the weak link. I don't know I've ever seen a run where a team is so outrageously dominant in the first three rounds and completely collapses in the finals. This would have been a Fedorov Smythe.


1997 Playoffs
St. Louis beats Detroit 2-0
Shots: Wings 30 Blues 27
Wings 0 Blues 1

Lundington Daily News · ‎Apr 17, 1997

Despite the outcome of Wednesday's game, or perhaps because of it, the St. Louis Blues appear to have a big advantage in one key area: goaltending.

Neither Chris Osgood nor Mike Vernon measures up to Fuhr or some of the other top goalies around the NHL. Yet both are good enough, especially if the defense doesn't hand them out to dry.

Red Wings win 2-1
Shots: Wings 33 Blues 23
Wings 1 Blues 1

The Argus-Press · ‎Apr 19, 1997

Vernon, aided by the Detroit defense, was superb the rest of the way.

Red Wings win 3-2
Shots: Wings 29 Blues 26
Wings 2 Blues 1

Toledo Blade · ‎Apr 21, 1997

The Blues closed the gap in the third, outshooting the Red Wings 15-6, but couldn't get the puck past Mike Vernon. "He didn't get much work in the first and second," Yzerman said, "But boy, he was great in the third,"

Blues win 4-0
Shots: Wings 28 Blues 27
Wings 2 Blues 2

The Argus-Press · ‎Apr 23, 1997

Red Wings coach Scotty Bowman pulled goalie Mike Vernon after Pronger's goal at 9:23 of the third made it 4-0.

Red Wings win 5-2
Shots: Wings 33 Blues 21
Wings 3 Blues 2

No relevant comments

Wings win 3-1
Shots: Wings 30 Blues 25
Wings 4 Blues 2

Lundington Daily News · ‎Apr 28, 1997

In five power plays, the Blues manage one routine shot. The Blues had 14 of their 25 shots in the first period, but only a shorthanded effort by Brett Hull required more than a routine effort from Vernon.

A so-so series from Vernon. He doesn't get much media love.

1997 Semifinals
Wings beat Ducks 2-1 in OT
Shots: Wings 30 Ducks 20
Wings 1 Ducks 0

The Day · ‎May 3, 1997

Detroit was able to shut down the Ducks long enough as goalie Mike Vernon made some key saves and Fedorov scored midway through the third.

Wings win 3-2 in triple OT
Shots: Wings 71 Ducks 51
Wings 2 Ducks 0

No relevant comments

Wings win 5-3
Shots: Wings 49 Ducks 23
Wings 3 Ducks 0

No relevant comments

Wings win 3-2 in double OT
Shots: Wings 73 Ducks 37
Wings 4 Ducks 0

The Argus-Press · ‎May 9, 1997

While the Red Wings outshot the Ducks 73-37, Detroit goalie Mike Vernon also played extremely well, holding Anaheim scoreless after the second period.

Another so-so series. Outside game 4, he doesn't get much praise. Fedorov stands tall for Detroit, but it's another whole-team domination.


1997 Conference Finals
Avs beat Wings 2-1
Shots: Wings 35 Avs 19
Wings 0 Avs 1

No relevant comments

Wings win 4-2
Shots: Wings 40 Avs 17
Wings 1 Avs 1

No relevant comments

Wings win 2-1
Shots: Wings 28 Avs 28
Wings 2 Avs 1

Toledo Blade · ‎May 20, 1997

"Everybody dumped on Mike after the New Jersey series [1995 finals], but I didn't" Bowman said.

In any comparison with Roy, Vernon can't come out on top. He was not he best goalie in Joe Louis Arena last night. Slava Kozlov beat him twice, once with an almost perfect shot to win the game. Nobody beat Vernon on 28 shots except Sakic. This was a game that the Wings' goalie stole.

Wings win 6-0.
Shots: Wings 38 Avs 19
Wings 3 Avs 1

Lundington Daily News · ‎May 23, 1997

Colorado's charismatic Patrick Roy was clearly the marquee goalie coming into this series. Yet he has been soundly outplayed by Detroit goalie Mike Vernon. Roy allowed five goals before being benched in favour of Cragin Billington after two periods Thursday. That's as many goals as Vernon has allowed for the entire series.

Avs win 6-0.
Shots: Wings 32 Avs 28. Vernon is pulled after 4 goals on 11 shots.
Wings 3 Avs 2

Toledo Blade · ‎May 25, 1997

There's a few things the Wings hope for. They hope Mike Vernon hasn't suddenly discovered he's Mike Vernon and not Patrick Roy.

Red Wings win 3-1
Shots: Wings 41 Avs 16
Wings 4 Avs 2

The Daily Courier · ‎May 27, 1997

Mike Vernon was again outstanding in the Detroit net

Strong series for Vernon, his best this run so far. Roy plays great and the Wings thoroughly outshoot the Avs. Fedorov most praised player, followed by Sakic.

1997 Stanley Cup Finals
Wings beat Flyers 4-2
Shots: Wings 30 Flyers 28
Wings 1 Flyers 0

The Argus-Press · ‎Jun 1, 1997

Vernon, 34, seemed to be a lame duck most of the season with his contract running out. However... he's been spectacular in the playoffs, posting a 1.82 GAA in 16 games.

Wings win 4-2
Shots: Wings 28 Flyers 31
Wings 2 Flyers 0

Lundington Daily News · ‎Jun 4, 1997

Vernon Solid in Goal

They might be closer in this series had their goalies measured up to Vernon, who has been outstanding.

"Mike has been the difference for us in the playoffs," said Malty. "He's been awesome. We can't worry about what they are going to try to do to get their team going."

Wings win 6-1
Shots: Wings 29 Flyers 22
Wings 3 Flyers 0

No relevant comments

Wings win 2-1
Shots: Wings 27 Flyers 28
Wings 4 Flyers 0

Toledo Blade · ‎Jun 8, 1997

Vernon helps Detroit end 42-year Drought

The steady Nicklas Lidstrom provided the other Detroit goal. They were enough, just barely, because Mike Vernon was unbeatable until the final seconds.

His strongest series so far, but man, how was this not Fedorov's Conn Smythe? He's for sure the most praised Wing across the playoffs and I don't think it's particularly close. Vernon might be second, but he doesn't get any love in the first two rounds. Yzerman and Shanahan are right there too. Lidstrom gets strong praise. I'm surprised this wasn't a Fedorov Smythe.


Overall, he is remarkably lucky with team quality, but I'm never left thinking I'm reading about a truly top-level goalie. He has good games here and there, and can manage a strong series, but he has lots of stinkers too. I don't think this is time for him, even if 1997 is a nice cap to this whole playoff report. Both the 80s Flames and 90s Red Wings read as teams that should have won more. I don't want to blame it all on him, but series like 1995 finals don't look good.

Over these four Cup runs, I definitely came away impressed with MacInnis and Fedorov.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Is there much on Rollins while we're talking about him?

Not much on YT, but I found some in other places. Just quickly because I'm traveling for NYE. This is a pretty fair summation of Rollins in this clip.



There's an older school soccer slide, pad stack type of style here. I realized that mid-tier guys in the 30's were doing this as an answer to more or less standing there like a lot of guys in the 20's. Exceptions being Worters and before him, probably Benedict, by most accounts. So, some guys in the 30's adopted this slide technique to deal with a more open passing game. It's a faster way for some of the poorer skaters (that's still the case in the 30's and 40's it would appear) to move in their crease.

We see guys like Rollins - who would have played in the NHL in the 40's, but wasn't good enough - sort of hang on to this style. Gump Worsley had elements of this, but he had played soccer in his youth I believe. Worsley and Rollins are born like 2 or 3 years apart, but it feels like they're a generation apart. Worsley, fortunately for him, was picked up by Montreal. If he had stayed with the Rangers, he would have probably been more of a minor leaguer like Rollins was.

Rollins' glove gets talked about quite a bit in my research too...and I've seen him catch a puck clean, so I have no inkling to challenge that. So, credit there. It's hard to figure out how he could have used so often in this technique. But that's the limitations we're dealing with...

This is sort of the deal with these gimmicky goalies, and I wish I had another piece handy in short order against someone that wasn't good...but that's the general deal with the gimmicky guys. The good players beat them and the bad players sometimes beat them (think Giacomin, Tony O, etc.). This applies to you (royal you) as a player too, even as a skater

You get the puck on a retrieval, I skate at you as fast as I can and slide at you. If you're really good, you'll use adaptive handling and skate around me. If you're really bad, you'll see "OMG, speed..." and you'll throw the puck away or turn it over into my slide. It's a big part of the DPE 2.0 concept too, as has been noted before.

We have a guy who has about five (six?) absolute pull away years as a starter? A 6-7 playoff record. A very unconvincing Hart (where he lost the 2nd half to Red Kelly). If Rollins, why not Jose Theodore? This feels like a case where a more modern goalie gets killed because we saw the goals go in on him. It's the "Fleury Fail Compilation Effect". If CBC wasn't so cheap, maybe we'd have an even more embarrassing fail compilation of Rollins...we likely would.

THN in 1951 has a statement I agree with...

In coming through during the latter part of the schedule and in the playoffs, McNeil proved himself a far better goaler than Rollins. It was not just an overnight spasm of success that McNeil enjoyed during the latter part of the season and in the playoffs. He found his confidence and clearly showed it against the Leafs by overshadowing Rollins in every game.

Fans in 1954, whatever they're worth, had little time for Rollins that season in a THN fan vote.
1. Harry Lumley 13274 pts
2. Terry Sawchuk 9396
3. Al Rollins 5394
4. Johnny Bower 1696

Why are the numbers so high? No one knows. Red Kelly, who narrowly lost the '54 Hart, finished 1st among all players in voting points.

That said, what I've read about the contemporary reports is that the Hart wasn't just a "sorry for last year" award or whatever...it seems like, however, what we see with goalies around this time...Worters, etc. that the Hart doesn't mean "great", it means, "performed admirably in an impossible situation".

The Hart Trophy is awarded each season to the National Hockey League player adjudged to be most valuable to his team and no one could be more deserving than the 195354 winner. Al Rollins, sensational goalkeeper of the Chicago Black Hawks, got the nod for this award from the hockey writers and broadcasters in the six NHL cities to nose out Detroit’s Red Kelly by six points.

Rollins polled 80 points to 74 for Kelly. Maurice Richard of Montreal Canadiens finished third in the voting with 44 points. It was strictly a two-man battle between Rollins and Kelly. It was also Rollins and Kelly who rated one-two in the voting at the halfway mark (games up to January 1, 1954). Rollins had 50 points at that time to Kelly’s 40. A perfect choice would poll 90 points in each half for 180 points for the season.

In winning hockey’s most prized individual award, tall Al becomes the first goalkeeper to annex the award since Chuck Rayner took honors in 1949-50. Detroit’s Gordie Howe has won the trophy for the past two seasons. Besides winning this fine piece of also pockets $1,000 from the National Hockey League.

What is even more remarkable about Rollins capturing the Hart Trophy is that he played the entire season for a last place club. He is the first player to win the Hart Trophy while playing for a last-place club, since Tommy (Cowboy) Anderson won the award while playing defense for the New York Americans in 194142.

Rollins’ play was so phenomenal throughout the entire ‘535 4 campaign that he just couldn’t be overlooked in the balloting. Even though Chicago was often defeated by big margins, Rollins never stopped trying or giving his best. Hockey writers around the National League circuit used to marvel at his scintillating play game after game. They were afraid that he might become vulcanized from stopping so much rubber.

I think this is just one of those goalies that isn't the greatest...isn't great. But had a couple of compelling seasons in bad situations. And, like the other guys of this ilk, played sort of a flashy/interesting style that made folks claim "spectacular"...that is, spectacle. As mentioned, he spent about 50% of his career in the minors. I know the position is weak overall, but the idea that we to drink a glass of half and half at this point escapes me. There's no reason for that.

 

[VanIslander]

In my lifetime, before and after Vernon and Thomas, i have seen (hundreds of nights).. much better:

FLEURY


RICHTER


KOLZIG
& after

 

[jigglysquishy]

I'm definitely ready for Giacomin. There won't be another goalie up with the same 5ish year regular stretch.

When he came up 3 rounds ago his playoff resume didn't hold up. But 12 inductees later and I think it looks quite good.

We're at the thin part of the project. Giacomin stands tall against a plethora of also rans.

 

[Michael Farkas]

What's the primary case for Giacomin...? All the good goalies retired or were too old to play 70 games, so he got votes for a few years...?

 

[Professor What]

What's the primary case for Giacomin...? All the good goalies retired or were too old to play 70 games, so he got votes for a few years...?

Honestly, at this point, it's as much about the fact that he's up against "also-rans" as anything. If his all-star record was the be all, end all, he'd already be on the list. All voting records aren't equal though, so he's slipped. But we're nearing the end of the list now, and with who he's up against? I think he looks pretty good in this round.

And in fairness, his five-year peak wasn't all playing 66-70 games. In the fifth year, he played just 45 in that fifth year. Though, granted, he did get the Vezina, so I guess there's that caveat.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

And in fairness, his five-year peak wasn't all playing 66-70 games. In the fifth year, he played just 45 in that fifth year. Though, granted, he did get the Vezina, so I guess there's that caveat.

Shared the Vezina (which was a team award at the time).

 

[Professor What]

Shared the Vezina (which was a team award at the time).

Yeah, but I point it out because of the tendency to give (one of) the Vezina winner(s) the first-team all-star nod. I don't want to cast too much shade on Giacomin's season that year since I think it was pretty good, but the voting has some strings attached, so I felt like it was necessary to mention.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I'm also very ready for John Ross Roach. Not only is he the best goalie remaining from his era, but I don't think any goalie in the eras surrounding him have his reputation.

Shesterkin, Roach, and Giacomin are my likely top 3.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

What's the primary case for Giacomin...? All the good goalies retired or were too old to play 70 games, so he got votes for a few years...?

Playing goal in the last season of six teams pretty much means he was one of the 6 best in the world at that time going in. The fact that he was the first team all-star and 2nd in Hart voting pretty much says he was the best at that time. The fact that he was an all-star for the next 4 seasons means it wasn't a fluke either.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

How do the project leads (and other participants) feel about extending this group for another week? We haven't seen a bunch of participation, but I'd hazard a guess that the main issue has been the holidays; I know I have been busy with non-hockey things, and I can't imagine I'm the only one.

The project leads agree. No rush to get through this round with the holidays wrapped up.

We'll go ahead and extend this round for one more week.