HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 1

[nabby12]

In his first and only full season with Boston they didn't make the playoffs. The next year I guess he got hurt and the unreliable Don Simmons put up similar numbers and somehow got them to the Final (losing to Montreal).

I guess one guy that might think a little less of Sawchuk is Jack Adams or whoever was running the Wings in '55. Is it well known why that deal (blockbuster as it was) actually went down...?

Sawchuk was very down and depressed the entire time he was with Boston. He even retired from hockey due to mononucleosis during the second season which is why Simmons was playing.

Detroit eventually brought him back out of retirement, but the damage was done. The initial trade to Boston was a massive shock and the worst day in his life.

Jack Adams thought that goalies had a short shelf life, and with Glenn Hall waiting in the wings, he decided to trade Sawchuk as he did with Lumley a few years back. Before he died, Adams regretted trading Sawchuk and called it the biggest mistake of his managing career and noted how it cost his team multiple Stanley Cups.

 

[ContrarianGoaltender]

In his first and only full season with Boston they didn't make the playoffs. The next year I guess he got hurt and the unreliable Don Simmons put up similar numbers and somehow got them to the Final (losing to Montreal).

I guess one guy that might think a little less of Sawchuk is Jack Adams or whoever was running the Wings in '55. Is it well known why that deal (blockbuster as it was) actually went down...?

I'm reading Todd Denault's book on Jacques Plante right now and just went past that part. Here's his quote straight from Jack Adams himself:

"We let Sawchuk go because we found ourselves with two top goalies. Hall is more advanced now than Sawchuk was when he joined us and all the players insist Glenn has been NHL material for the past year...It was a case of trading one of them and Sawchuk is the established player. Consequently, he brought a better offer."

Just going to also echo a few others here that I think Sawchuk is the most interesting guy this round and the one with the most room to move for me.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Gordie Howe on the trade

"Hall was a terrific goaltender, no question, but trading Sawchuk, who was coming off another Vezina Trophy, was hard to swallow. Most general managers spent their entire career waiting for a goalie like Sawchuk, who they could build a team around, to come along. Not Mr. Adams. When Terry was on his game, it's hard to think of anyone better. He also always seemed to save his best for when the stakes were the highest. An NHL team can't ask for much more than having a goalie who heats up every spring "

 

[TANK200]

Quoting myself on Hasek vs Roy:

Here's how Roy and Hasek rank in Goals Versus Average (which combines save percentage with workload):

• Roy - 1st (1989), 1st (1990), 1st (1992), 2nd (1988), 2nd (1991), 2nd (2002), 3rd (1987), 3rd (1994), 3rd (1997), 5th (1998), 6th (2000), 6th (2003), 7th (1993), 7th (1996), 7th (1999), 10th (1995)
• Hasek - 1st (1995), 1st (1996), 1st (1997), 1st (1998), 1st (1999), 2nd (2001), 2nd (1994), 7th (2006), 8th (2000), 10th (2002)

If we cancel out similar finishes (and I'll also cancel out a 7th for Roy with an 8th for Hasek), and we're left with:

• Roy - 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th
• Hasek - 1st, 1st

There's a much wider range in how goalies perform from year to year, compared to skaters. Roy brought enormous value to his teams by being consistently excellent year after year. From 1987 to 2003 (a span of 17 seasons), he placed lower than 7th in GVA only twice. I'm not saying that's the same as Gordie Howe with 20 straight years in the top five in scoring, or Ray Bourque with 19 out of 22 seasons placing in the top five in Norris voting - but it's not far off either. Would you trade someone with two scoring titles and little else (ie Dickie Moore) for someone who was a top 7 scorer eight times (ie Joe Sakic)?

Just to show Roy's consistency. From 1980 to 2022, here's how many times each goalie placed 7th or higher in GVA (granted an arbitrary cutoff) - Roy did it 15 times. Hasek and Luongo are next at 8 times. Lundqvist and Vanbiesbrouck did it 7 times. Brodeur 6 times. Then Joseph, Barrasso, Hrudey and Moog five times each. It's a very tough standard (Belfour and Price don't even qualify).

You can say I'm being disingenuous because Hasek clearly peaked higher. And that's true. Hasek has all five of the highest seasons in GVA between them (then Roy has 9 of the next 12). Can you argue that Hasek's peak trumps anything Roy ever did? Possibly. If the question is who's the "better" or more naturally talented goalie, I think it's almost impossible to choose Roy.

But if the question is "greatest" (which is generally how we make our top X lists), I'd go with Roy. Hasek has the higher peak, but Roy ends up ahead in career GVA. He was much more consistent from year to year (which is rare for a goalie). He still led the league in GVA three times (so he wasn't a compiler - and nobody else from 1980 onwards has done this more than twice). And Roy's playoff resume is vastly superior (where, adjusted for era, he stopped the puck more effectively than Hasek, over a much larger number of games).

Roy's consistent excellence relative to his peers is certainly impressive, but it is important to consider that Hasek was behind the Iron Curtain at the start of his career. Before playing a singly game in the NHL, he had already accomplished the following:

• World Championship Best Goalie: x2
• World Championship All-Star Team: x3
• Czechoslovakia Goalie of the Year: x5 (consecutively)
• Czechoslovakia Best Player: x2

It's almost certain that he would have dominated the NHL from an earlier age if he was born in North America. And when he eventually came to the NHL, he was battling for a starting position with an already-established Eddie Belfour.

 

[Professor What]

No matter where I vote Sawchuk, I'm sympathetic to him. Severe depression is horrible to deal with. If anything, I respect him for overcoming it to the degree he did, even if it almost certainly contributed to his end.