HOH Top 40 Stanley Cup Playoff Performers of All Time

[Hockey Outsider]

One question that I do have, since the aggregate list seems to have been lost in transition, Who is the highest ranked player on the aggregate list to have never won the SC?

Good question. Perhaps one of Brad Park, Cam Neely or Norm Ullman?

 

[wetcoast]

Good question. Perhaps one of Brad Park, Cam Neely or Norm Ullman?

Brad Park was the first name that came to mind for me.

I wonder where Bernie Federko would fit in that mix, possibly a top 10 all time playoff performer without a SC, might be interesting research.

I also think that in a current 31 (soon to be 32 team league) that we are going to see some excellent playoff performer never winning a SC going forward.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I think that the project was more like"look at all those SC's" and less at the individual performances.

Is that what actually happened? I don't mean that in a lawyering type way...but when you read the discussion that was had in the making of this list, is that the conclusion you came up with earnestly...?

 

[wetcoast]

Is that what actually happened? I don't mean that in a lawyering type way...but when you read the discussion that was had in the making of this list, is that the conclusion you came up with earnestly...?

I'm not coming to any conclusions just asking the question.

Also I haven't heard through the whole thread for quite some time but going back and looking on it saw this in the 3rd post you asked this question about Orr

I never thought I'd ever say this...but I'm into hearing the case for Bobby Orr here...just 74 games, and what, 4 out of 8 first round exits...(that might be incorrect, as I didn't check that)? I know he's #4 and all, but I'm not sure he applies here.

also in the post above (links lost in the transition) by Hockey Outsider, he provides information that includes such things as

MOST TIMES PLACING IN TOP FIVE IN PLAYOFFS - GOALS
MOST TIMES PLACING IN TOP FIVE IN PLAYOFFS - ASSISTS
MOST TIMES PLACING IN TOP FIVE IN PLAYOFFS - POINTS

which will of course benefit 06 players in a couple of ways.

1) Even if a player is knocked out in the first round, only 2 teams play another round so an early knockout won't "suppress" an excellent individual effort from a losing player as much as in say a 3 or 4 round playoff.

2) Being part of a dynasty in a 6 team league could possibly magnify "lesser" individual performances due to the scarcity of competition.

I will probably go back and read some of the threads but won't come to any more conclusions.

That being said I think that the best NHL playoff performers of all time is a project that was less "polished" than the most recent top 100 players of all time project but hey that's just my 2 cents.

 

[quoipourquoi]

That being said I think that the best NHL playoff performers of all time is a project that was less "polished" than the most recent top 100 players of all time project but hey that's just my 2 cents.

Gee, thanks.

 

[daver]

This may not be appropriate for this particular thread but I will ask it anyway.

If you could choose to take any player for the playoffs, would you take someone outside of the Big 4 in your top four picks?

 

[MXD]

This may not be appropriate for this particular thread but I will ask it anyway.

If you could choose to take any player for the playoffs, would you take someone outside of the Big 4 in your top four picks?

Anytime.

 

[daver]

Anytime.

You have numerous choices over the Big 4 or at anytime, any player could outperform the Big 4 in the playoffs?

 

[MXD]

You have numerous choices over the Big 4 or at anytime, any player could outperform the Big 4 in the playoffs?

The former (though it's mostly a Roy/Beliveau thing).

 

[daver]

The former.

Who would be some? Richard? Roy?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I'm not coming to any conclusions just asking the question.

Also I haven't heard through the whole thread for quite some time but going back and looking on it saw this in the 3rd post you asked this question about Orr



also in the post above (links lost in the transition) by Hockey Outsider, he provides information that includes such things as

MOST TIMES PLACING IN TOP FIVE IN PLAYOFFS - GOALS
MOST TIMES PLACING IN TOP FIVE IN PLAYOFFS - ASSISTS
MOST TIMES PLACING IN TOP FIVE IN PLAYOFFS - POINTS

which will of course benefit 06 players in a couple of ways.

1) Even if a player is knocked out in the first round, only 2 teams play another round so an early knockout won't "suppress" an excellent individual effort from a losing player as much as in say a 3 or 4 round playoff.

2) Being part of a dynasty in a 6 team league could possibly magnify "lesser" individual performances due to the scarcity of competition.

I will probably go back and read some of the threads but won't come to any more conclusions.

That being said I think that the best NHL playoff performers of all time is a project that was less "polished" than the most recent top 100 players of all time project but hey that's just my 2 cents.

Keep in mind I also posted tables showing most number of times players have led their teams in goals, assists and points- those are biased in favour of players in larger leagues (easier to lead one of 30 teams compared to one of six).

 

[daver]

This may not be appropriate for this particular thread but I will ask it anyway.

If you could choose to take any player for the playoffs, would you take someone outside of the Big 4 in your top four picks?

To clarify, this isn't meant to be questioning the Top 40 ratings, it is asking whether it is as obvious when talking only about the playoffs, rather overall, that you would want the Big 4 on your team or do you feel another player or two was a better playoff performer?

 

[quoipourquoi]

If you could choose to take any player for the playoffs, would you take someone outside of the Big 4 in your top four picks?

Could depend on the playoff format and how many bites at the apple I get. If I’m going into a total goal series, I’d probably load up on the big-four. Two-round playoffs, I probably think about sneaking in Richard or Beliveau. Four-round playoffs, Messier is tempting.

The nature of goaltending is in preserving a differential rather than adding to it - which is why it’s more frequent for non-HOF goaltenders to get red hot and steal a playoff/tournament than non-HOF skaters. Might not see full value from taking a money goaltender in a top-4 pick unless the scenario plays out over multiple years, because they begin to separate themselves by the frequency of their ability to deliver all-time runs rather than the ability itself.

 

[wetcoast]

Keep in mind I also posted tables showing most number of times players have led their teams in goals, assists and points- those are biased in favour of players in larger leagues (easier to lead one of 30 teams compared to one of six).

Yes I did see that but most people tend to look at overall scoring more than team scoring.

I mean no one makes a strong case for Mats Sundin leading his team in scoring X number of times being HHOF worthy as his league scoring finishes aren't that impressive.

The body of his argument is an excellent and consistent long prime of good to very good play.

 

[daver]

Yes I did see that but most people tend to look at overall scoring more than team scoring.

I mean no one makes a strong case for Mats Sundin leading his team in scoring X number of times being HHOF worthy as his league scoring finishes aren't that impressive.

The body of his argument is an excellent and consistent long prime of good to very good play.

I think you can look at a variety of offensive metrics, each with a similar level of importance:

(1) total playoff points in your era

(2) playoff PPG in your era (with a min. of games played or vs. the other top 10 - 20 scorers for your era)

(3) best individual playoff runs for your era based on total points (usually means a Cup run)

(4) best playoff runs based on PPG (min. of games needed here dependent on era)


Crosby and Howe are quite similar when applying these metrics

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Every metric I’ve ever seen has Lemieux above both Howe and orr.

 

[MXD]

Every metric I’ve ever seen has Lemieux above both Howe and orr.

It's probably time to look at better metrics.

 

[wetcoast]

Every metric I’ve ever seen has Lemieux above both Howe and orr.

You should probably start with ESGF/ESGA as Mario is surprisingly ordinary in this respect.

 

[daver]

It's probably time to look at better metrics.

Why?

 

[wetcoast]

This came up in another thread and maybe after the SC is decided we could make a thread about it as it depends a bit if TB wins or not but how many people would have Kuch in their top 40 playoff performers all time now?

 

[Hockeyholic]

Is this judged by points?

For instance, who was a better playoff performer. Crosby or Messier?

Messier has more points. Crosby has two CS's.

How do you judge which one is better?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Proper evaluation of game play. Same as anything else.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Is this judged by points?

For instance, who was a better playoff performer. Crosby or Messier?

Messier has more points. Crosby has two CS's.

How do you judge which one is better?

Discussion on Messier: Round 2, Vote 2 (Stanley Cup Playoff Performers)

Discussion on Crosby: Round 2, Vote 6 (Stanley Cup Playoff Performers)

Bear in mind this project was done in early 2017, so Crosby was coming off a Cup/Smythe win and having a great regular season, but had not yet accomplished the second consecutive Cup/Smythe. The end result of his 2017 playoff run would have been a major factor if it had taken place prior to the vote.

 

[Sentinel]

Is this judged by points?

For instance, who was a better playoff performer. Crosby or Messier?

Messier has more points. Crosby has two CS's.

How do you judge which one is better?

By context. Both Crosby's CS's were among the weakest ever. Messier by far.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

By context. Both Crosby's CS's were among the weakest ever. Messier by far.

How was crosbys 17 smythe weak lol. I'd love to see this