HOH Top 40 Goaltenders of All Time
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Doctor No
Registered User
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Even as someone that voted Brodeur at 3, I don't think it's so unbelievable to have him at 6 that I would throw my crayons across the floor...while I disagree that he belongs at 6, it wasn't done on a whim...
If I wanted him on a list at 3, I would have went through my own process...with blackjack...and hookers...in fact...forget the list!
If I wanted him on a list at 3, I would have went through my own process...with blackjack...and hookers...in fact...forget the list!
Doctor No
Registered User
Right, but then you'd need to do all of the effort needed to actually make a list and subject it to scrutiny.
It's a lot easier to jump into a thread after the fact and say things like "LOL Brodeur at 6?! Stupid list."
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
Game 5 was the only game he stood up in.
Game 4...the only reason that game even went to OT was because the Bruins (led by Bergeron btw to tie it up 3-3) overcame 2 stinkers Thomas let in to make it 3-1 Habs before the 8 minute mark of the 2nd period.
And don't even get me started on Game 7 where Ryder in regulation and Chara in OT saved sure goals going into wide open nets vacated by an out of position Thomas.
He was bad quite often in the Tampa series too, agreed but not as bad as often as he was in the Habs series.
And then Thomas gets credit for the Philly and Canucks series? Really?
The Bruins outscored their opposition by 28 freakin goals (43-15) in those 11 games.
The Bruins average margin of victory in the Philly series was by 3.25 goals a game.
In the Nucks series it was a ridiculous 4.5 goals a game.
So at the end of the day, Thomas had 2 series where he was poor to bad and then 2 other series where it really didn't matter how he played because his team was too busy filling the other net for it to matter.
Hello boys and girls, we're going to spell overrated today.
Can you do that?
I knew you could.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
This article is already posted in its own thread, but it has a couple of quotes that should be preserved here: http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...he-international-hockey-legend-you-never-knew
Interview excerpts from the legendary Czech forward Vaclav Nedomansky:
SP: In all, while representing Team Czechoslovakia, you scored 78 goals over 93 Olympic and World Championship contests. And you played with JiřÃ Holeček, perhaps the most underrated international goalie ever. How did he compare to Tretiak?
VN: Tretiak, he was a stand-up goalie, playing all the time behind a very good team. Russia was very structured, especially defensively. They had obviously played for a long time together. It was easier for Tretiak to play.
Holeček was a more flexible, reaction goalie. He would stack pads like Hasek later on, all these unbelievable saves. But I remember a critical part. I'm already in Canada at that time, it was the Canada Cup '76, and Holeček was interviewed, and he said, "I'm the best goalie in the world." And he played the [second game of the Canada Cup final] against Canada, three minutes in, two goals against, eventually they pull him and he never played in North America again. I watched that, and I knew him, so I could imagine how he felt.
SP: Going back to talking about goalies, you played with or against many of the greats besides Holeček and Tretiak. Eventually, you joined the Detroit Red Wings in 1977, facing the likes of Ken Dryden, Tony Esposito, and Rogie Vachon. Who was the toughest for you to beat?
VN: If I remember...I talked to, for example, Dryden. I scored some goals from long distances because he late [sic - perhaps a typo in the article]. I think he was using glasses at that time. He told me, "I have such a bad memory about you because you scored all the time."
With Esposito, it was hard to score on because he was big. He would go down in a butterfly. And actually, Esposito said one time...along with Cheevers, about my wrist shot, "When you handle the puck with your wrist, I never know where it goes."
Because at that time, everybody was using the slap shot. And I would go more with the wrist shot. Even looking at old warm-up videos in Detroit from '78, everybody has a big slap shot, and I was using the wrist shot.
Goalies play differently now, they are much better because of size and athletic approach and different styles. For me, as a goal scorer, I was trying to use my skills and quickness to surprise goalies. Doesn't really matter who was in. If I could see that place where I could shoot, I would succeed many times."
Interview excerpts from the legendary Czech forward Vaclav Nedomansky:
SP: In all, while representing Team Czechoslovakia, you scored 78 goals over 93 Olympic and World Championship contests. And you played with JiřÃ Holeček, perhaps the most underrated international goalie ever. How did he compare to Tretiak?
VN: Tretiak, he was a stand-up goalie, playing all the time behind a very good team. Russia was very structured, especially defensively. They had obviously played for a long time together. It was easier for Tretiak to play.
Holeček was a more flexible, reaction goalie. He would stack pads like Hasek later on, all these unbelievable saves. But I remember a critical part. I'm already in Canada at that time, it was the Canada Cup '76, and Holeček was interviewed, and he said, "I'm the best goalie in the world." And he played the [second game of the Canada Cup final] against Canada, three minutes in, two goals against, eventually they pull him and he never played in North America again. I watched that, and I knew him, so I could imagine how he felt.
SP: Going back to talking about goalies, you played with or against many of the greats besides Holeček and Tretiak. Eventually, you joined the Detroit Red Wings in 1977, facing the likes of Ken Dryden, Tony Esposito, and Rogie Vachon. Who was the toughest for you to beat?
VN: If I remember...I talked to, for example, Dryden. I scored some goals from long distances because he late [sic - perhaps a typo in the article]. I think he was using glasses at that time. He told me, "I have such a bad memory about you because you scored all the time."
With Esposito, it was hard to score on because he was big. He would go down in a butterfly. And actually, Esposito said one time...along with Cheevers, about my wrist shot, "When you handle the puck with your wrist, I never know where it goes."
Because at that time, everybody was using the slap shot. And I would go more with the wrist shot. Even looking at old warm-up videos in Detroit from '78, everybody has a big slap shot, and I was using the wrist shot.
Goalies play differently now, they are much better because of size and athletic approach and different styles. For me, as a goal scorer, I was trying to use my skills and quickness to surprise goalies. Doesn't really matter who was in. If I could see that place where I could shoot, I would succeed many times."
reckoning
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2005
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Going through the HSP summaries, Nedomansky played against Dryden 12 times (7 regular season games, and the 5 games in the '78 playoffs) and scored 3 goals.
I don't know if maybe a couple of them were bad goals on long times that were easily remembered because of that; but I wouldn't call 3 goals in 12 games scoring "all the time" against him.
On the other hand, in 78-79 he had 6 goals in 4 games against Esposito, the goalie he that he gives the impression as being tougher to score against.
Where does Carey Price rank on this list as of today?
If he's not yet done enough to crack the top 40, what about as of age 29? Who else is above him at age 29?
Or - is it maybe too difficult to rank a goalie as of age 29, since so many goalies peaks and prime happens past that point? It's maybe easier to discuss "as of age 29" for forwards because usually most of the peak/prime is done, and you can "project" what rest of career may look like. And goalies are maybe a bit more unpredictable than forwards in that sense.
Would be curious to hear some opinions though on Price, if any.
What about Lundqvist - how high has he moved up since 2012?
If he's not yet done enough to crack the top 40, what about as of age 29? Who else is above him at age 29?
Or - is it maybe too difficult to rank a goalie as of age 29, since so many goalies peaks and prime happens past that point? It's maybe easier to discuss "as of age 29" for forwards because usually most of the peak/prime is done, and you can "project" what rest of career may look like. And goalies are maybe a bit more unpredictable than forwards in that sense.
Would be curious to hear some opinions though on Price, if any.
What about Lundqvist - how high has he moved up since 2012?
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
Ranking by age for goaltenders is not going to get you anything, for reasons that you seem to already understand. But I think Carey Price would probably come up short in a top-40 list, just as Miikka Kiprusoff did.
MXD
Partying Hard
- Oct 27, 2005
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That's my take as well. If a goalie doesn't definitely pass Kiprusoff, he isn't a Top-40 goaltender of all time. I think he did, but I can't say he definitely did. He's about one above-average season to make it definitely.
I do have so issues reconciling this with Bernard Parent's ranking, however. Parent's ranking is perfectly justified, don't get me wrong. But let's say Price has a season similar to 14-15 (it actually doesn't have to be as good as 14-15)... I'd have a very hard time justifying Price below Parent.
Doctor No
Registered User
Instead of just insulting all of the work that went into this, would you care to back up your opinion with something stronger than "Location: Philadelphia, PA"?
MXD
Partying Hard
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Parent lacks starter years to be significantly higher than that + yeah, he was absolutely awesome for a few seasons, but it coincided perfectly with the period where the NHL was at its absolute weakest.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
It'll be like one of those roller coasters with an absurdly fast ascent. That's just the nature of the position, I suppose. One excellent season? Not on the list, because it might have been an anomaly. Two seasons, but no championships? #35-45 range. Three seasons or a championship? Probably a #15-20 goaltender. (not so fast, Thomas)
My fear is that Brian Elliott wins a Conn Smythe.
MXD
Partying Hard
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It'll be like one of those roller coasters with an absurdly fast ascent. That's just the nature of the position, I suppose. One excellent season? Not on the list, because it might have been an anomaly. Two seasons, but no championships? #35-45 range. Three seasons or a championship? Probably a #15-20 goaltender. (not so fast, Thomas)
My fear is that Brian Elliott wins a Conn Smythe.
The other thing with Price is that, well, he also was an above-average starter/1A-1B goalie for all of his seasons, except two (that was 08-09, and the lockout year).And considering how goalies of his generation were often not even in the NHL at 21, I wouldnt put significant weight the first.
MXD
Partying Hard
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ResilientBeast
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Doctor No
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