HOH Top-200 Players of All-Time Voting Results & Aggregate List

[Yozhik v tumane]

As usual

extreme pre-1980 bias
extreme Canadian bias

Would you consider detailing which players you feel got hosed by this bias?

 

[filinski77]

Would you consider detailing which players you feel got hosed by this bias?

I think there's an interesting debate when you start to look at the Ovechkni/Jagr/Crosby vs. Morenz/Richard/Beliveau (and even some of the D like Kelly). Seems like a strong bias towards significantly easier team success, and less individual success (despite smaller, and less competitive leagues).

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

I think there's an interesting debate when you start to look at the Ovechkni/Jagr/Crosby vs. Morenz/Richard/Beliveau (and even some of the D like Kelly). Seems like a strong bias towards significantly easier team success, and less individual success (despite smaller, and less competitive leagues).

But this project wasn’t about re-doing the top 100. Several participants sent in that final ranking for the top 100 without changes, others placed certain players into the top 100 without further changes to the final ranking. If you want to discuss biases in this thread, you should highlight problems you find on the 101-200 spots.

 

[Neutrinos]

I ignored him on purpose because his career was too young and it felt pointless to rank him anywhere on the list.

The project started in January 2021, as did the shortened 2021 NHL season. So at the time I made my initial list, McDavid's 2021 and 2022 seasons didn't exist. He had accomplished a lot prior to that but it felt too incomplete to rank him on an historical scale.

If the project started today it would be different.

By the end of 2020 we were firmly in the McDavid Era of NHL hockey

From '17 - '20, he had put up 4 straight 110+ adjusted point seasons

Players without a single 110+ adj. point season include Messier, Bossy, Kurri, Fedorov, and Stastny

And in the 2020 playoffs, McDavid put up 5 goals, 9 points in 4 games

By omitting arguably the best player ever, you do a great disservice to anyone who looks to these lists as a credible source of rankings

 

[Beau Knows]

By omitting arguably the best player ever, you do a great disservice to anyone who looks to these lists as a credible source of rankings

What?

 

[rmartin65]

By omitting arguably the best player ever, you do a great disservice to anyone who looks to these lists as a credible source of rankings

Yikes

 

[Neutrinos]

What?

Yikes

Obviously, some of you didn't watch the video I posted

 

[BenchBrawl]

By the end of 2020 we were firmly in the McDavid Era of NHL hockey

From '17 - '20, he had put up 4 straight 110+ adjusted point seasons

Players without a single 110+ adj. point season include Messier, Bossy, Kurri, Fedorov, and Stastny

And in the 2020 playoffs, McDavid put up 5 goals, 9 points in 4 games

By omitting arguably the best player ever, you do a great disservice to anyone who looks to these lists as a credible source of rankings

The Top 200 list was actually two projects:

1) The Top 100 players of all-time, which started in October 2018.

2) The 101th-200th players of all-time, which started in January 2021, and which was a continuation of the first project.

So even if I had ranked Connor McDavid 1st on my January 2021 list, he would at best be ranked 101th. That felt pointless and artificial, which is why I omitted him completely and let future lists deal with his legacy.

In October 2018, McDavid had his 2016 rookie season, and his 2017 season where he scored 100 pts and won the Art Ross. I'm not gonna rank a player with only one complete season under his belt. Patience was in order IMO.

 

[Overrated]

Would you consider detailing which players you feel got hosed by this bias?

It's not a few guys I couldn't list them all. It's all Canadian players. It's all NHLers playing pre 1980, generally the further away from then, the more overrated. Béliveau is more overrated than Hull. Harvey is more overrated than Béliveau. Morenz is more overrated than Harvey.

 

[Overrated]

Obviously, some of you didn't watch the video I posted

Guys on this forum rate McDavid as 150th best player in history while they rate this great depression era guy

who scored 26 goals in his last 4 seasons put together on the same level as Crosby (and it's not like he played until he was 60, he died at the age of 34).

 

[jigglysquishy]

Obviously, some of you didn't watch the video I posted

There's a lot more to hockey than one highlight video. Especially when comparing how players played against their peers.

Guys on this forum rate McDavid as 150th best player in history while they rate this great depression era guy

who scored 26 goals in his last 5 seasons put together on the same level as Crosby (and it's not like he played until he was 50, he died at the age of 34).

I don't know why you're offended at the idea of an all time ranking considering considering guys from all time.

 

[rmartin65]

Obviously, some of you didn't watch the video I posted

Obviously you know nothing about the history of hockey.

 

[Overrated]

I don't know why you're offended at the idea of an all time ranking considering considering guys from all time.

I am not offended. Maybe he deserves to be somewhere in the top200, somewhere towards the end, although I am not even sure about that. You can easily see how fast was hockey developing given the fact he stopped scoring at around the age of 30.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I mean, maybe we'd do a better job if you paid us a 250k/yr salary. Until then, you'd have to deal with what it is, a bunch of people who are passionate about the history of the game and who just want to have fun in their spare time discussing this topic.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I am not offended. Maybe he deserves to be somewhere in the top200, somewhere towards the end, although I am not even sure about that. You can easily see how fast was hockey developing given the fact he stopped scoring at around the age of 30.

Are we ranking athletes or hockey players here?

At the time Morenz was the best hockey player of his era

McDavid is the best hockey player of this era and a much better athlete because of 80 years of growth and development.

Just because I can do calculus doesn't make me smarter than Archimedes

 

[Professor What]

Guys on this forum rate McDavid as 150th best player in history while they rate this great depression era guy

who scored 26 goals in his last 4 seasons put together on the same level as Crosby (and it's not like he played until he was 60, he died at the age of 34).

He was also pretty much unquestionably one of the two greatest players in the first quarter century of the NHL. Not to mention that, as has been pointed out, McDavid has two more seasons under his belt since then. There's so much context missing here.

 

[Neutrinos]

Obviously you know nothing about the history of hockey.

Obviously.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Are we ranking athletes or hockey players here?

At the time Morenz was the best hockey player of his era

McDavid is the best hockey player of this era and a much better athlete because of 80 years of growth and development.

Just because I can do calculus doesn't make me smarter than Archimedes

As far as I know, Archimedes was already doing integral calculus type math in his day, finding area under the curve using increasingly-thinner rectangles. Man was a total genius.

 

[filinski77]

But this project wasn’t about re-doing the top 100. Several participants sent in that final ranking for the top 100 without changes, others placed certain players into the top 100 without further changes to the final ranking. If you want to discuss biases in this thread, you should highlight problems you find on the 101-200 spots.

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying!

 

[MXD]

I am not offended. Maybe he deserves to be somewhere in the top200, somewhere towards the end, although I am not even sure about that. You can easily see how fast was hockey developing given the fact he stopped scoring at around the age of 30.

If you're indeed not offended, you should probably edit your posts accordingly.

 

[Neutrinos]

The Top 200 list was actually two projects:

1) The Top 100 players of all-time, which started in October 2018.

2) The 101th-200th players of all-time, which started in January 2021, and which was a continuation of the first project.

So even if I had ranked Connor McDavid 1st on my January 2021 list, he would at best be ranked 101th. That felt pointless and artificial, which is why I omitted him completely and let future lists deal with his legacy.

In October 2018, McDavid had his 2016 rookie season, and his 2017 season where he scored 100 pts and won the Art Ross. I'm not gonna rank a player with only one complete season under his belt. Patience was in order IMO.

But in this thread started April 7th 2021: Team World vs. Team Outer Space Aliens
The fate of the of our world depends on humans winning a 7 game series against aliens, yet, McDavid, having just posted a 158 adj. point season, is noticeably absent from the lineup you submitted

The fate of the goddamn world is at stake, and you put Bob Gainey on the team over McDavid!?!?!

You have such difficulty recognizing or acknowledging McDavid's talent/impact that you're going to get us all killed!

 

[ResilientBeast]

But in this thread started April 7th 2021: Team World vs. Team Outer Space Aliens
The fate of the of our world depends on humans winning a 7 game series against aliens, yet, McDavid, having just posted a 158, is noticeably absent from the lineup you submitted

The fate of the goddamn world is at stake, and you put Bob Gainey on the team over McDavid!?!?!

You have such difficulty recognizing or acknowledging McDavid's talent/impact that you're going to get us all killed!

It's incredible that your presumably believed that this was a good enough argument for you to bother posting lol

 

[Professor What]

But in this thread started April 7th 2021: Team World vs. Team Outer Space Aliens
The fate of the of our world depends on humans winning a 7 game series against aliens, yet, McDavid, having just posted a 158 adj. point season, is noticeably absent from the lineup you submitted

The fate of the goddamn world is at stake, and you put Bob Gainey on the team over McDavid!?!?!

You have such difficulty recognizing or acknowledging McDavid's talent/impact that you're going to get us all killed!

Taking that too seriously much?

 

[BenchBrawl]

But in this thread started April 7th 2021: Team World vs. Team Outer Space Aliens
The fate of the of our world depends on humans winning a 7 game series against aliens, yet, McDavid, having just posted a 158 adj. point season, is noticeably absent from the lineup you submitted

The fate of the goddamn world is at stake, and you put Bob Gainey on the team over McDavid!?!?!

You have such difficulty recognizing or acknowledging McDavid's talent/impact that you're going to get us all killed!

On a 4th line, yes.

 

[Neutrinos]

It's incredible that your presumably believed that this was a good enough argument for you to bother posting lol

It's always best to proofread your snarky comments before posting