Rumor: Hoglander “ Get The Trade Watch Going” - Dhaliwal

[Empoleon8771]

If the Canucks can somehow pry Cole Sillinger out of CBJ then it would be a home run.

Hoglander + Krudyastev + 2nd for Sillinger

Literally why would Columbus even remotely consider this

Like I'm questioning if this is even a serious suggestion because of how crazily lopsided it is for the Canucks.

 

[Nucker42]

That's because you're trying a used car salesman tactic here trying to convince the Penguins fans to offer Pettersson at a lower cost

Not at all. I don’t do that shit. He’s a good player but his strength is not puck moving and that’s what the Canucks need. They have defensive towers already.

1st rounders would say are out there for guys like Provorov, Sandhiem. Game changers. Pettersson is good at a lot of things but not a game changer by any means. I’m sure he’ll get a 2nd but I don’t think he’s getting much more. I just think him and Zadorov are similar and would bring similar packages.

Zadorov was excellent in Vancouver last year and is beloved by fans here.

 

[Nucker42]

Judging defensemen like Pettersson based on their points (or claiming that he somehow struggles with breakouts) is a dead giveaway that you don't actually have a clue who the player is.

Pettersson is Chris Tanev that has less bulk (aka taller/lankier).

Okay, that’s a little silly.

Tanev has been one of the best defensive defenseman in the NHL for the last 10 years. Pettersson is not even close to in his league.

He’s had 2 seasons where he’s played more than 70 games. Prior to last season he has never averaged more than 20 min a game.

If he plays another 5 years at 22+ min a night as a shut down d. Maybe you can run that comparison. Until then, not even close.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Okay, that’s a little silly.

Tanev has been one of the best defensive defenseman in the NHL for the last 10 years. Pettersson is not even close to in his league.

He’s had 2 seasons where he’s played more than 70 games. Prior to last season he has never averaged more than 20 min a game.

If he plays another 5 years at 22+ min a night as a shut down d. Maybe you can run that comparison. Until then, not even close.

No, it's not silly, it's completely reasonable.

Pettersson is a very good middle pair DFD that has a solid outlet pass. He is a clear and obvious step up from Zadorov.




Pettersson has been a top end DFD analytically for about the past 3 years, which coincides with exactly when they actually started using him like his underlying numbers suggested. Now compared to Zadorov:



I'm not saying Zadorov is bad because he isn't, but there is a clear difference between the two. Pettersson is on the same tier as Tanev in terms of DFD while Zadorov is a step below.

 

[Rowlet]

You made the claim without any support?

Pettersson is playing more minutes. Points wise they are very similar. Pettersson struggles with breakouts and the first pass. Zadorov thrives there.

Zadorov is prone to bad penalties and mental lapses. But widely better? No

I'm asking you what stats, you said statistically Zadorov is better, what stats are you talking about?

Zadorov vs Pettersson at 5v5 in relative stats:

CF: 1.72 vs 5.64
FF: 2.47 vs 6.31
xGF: 5.38 vs 8.72
SF: 1.53 vs 5.45
HDC: 7.37 vs 12.85

Zadorov has been fine this year, but Pettersson has been better in every advanced stat relative to his teammates.

 

[BCNate]

A recent 2nd round pick with the chops to play a bottom six role, and the skill to play a top six role. Tocchet doesn't seem to like him, but I'd rather keep him over Tocchet, if I'm being honest.

Tochett doesn't want to play Hogs because he has been awful this year. He got plenty of opportunity last year when he was playing well.

 

[Ryder71]

Pettersson is better than Zadorov and will come at a cheaper hit if the Penguins retain.

If not, then go find another Pettersson for a 3rd and a 5th if that's all you want to spend.

CBJ want a 1st for Provorov. I would suggest he and Pettersson at the top rental dmen available so Pettersson's value should be similar-ish to that.

IF we retain we should get Hoglander, a '25 2hd and maybe Mynio. For MP at say 40% retention.

 

[Empoleon8771]

IF we retain we should get Hoglander, a '25 2hd and maybe Mynio. For MP at say 40% retention.

This is pretty much spot on with what I'd expect if the deal was Pettersson for Hoglander+.

 

[belair]

How many dime a dozen 24 goal scorer a season ago at his age available?

You guys waived and lost a guy that fit that mold earlier this season, didn't you?

 

[Nucker42]

No, it's not silly, it's completely reasonable.

Pettersson is a very good middle pair DFD that has a solid outlet pass. He is a clear and obvious step up from Zadorov.




Pettersson has been a top end DFD analytically for about the past 3 years, which coincides with exactly when they actually started using him like his underlying numbers suggested. Now compared to Zadorov:



I'm not saying Zadorov is bad because he isn't, but there is a clear difference between the two. Pettersson is on the same tier as Tanev in terms of DFD while Zadorov is a step below.

Marginally better even strength defense than Zadorov. I guess I’ve missed the part where Pettersson became a top 5 defender in the league.

There’s a lot of info out there about his issues getting out of his zone and making a good first pass.

Again, I like the player and a few of you seem personally offended that I compared him to a player I actually really like. Just dial it down a bit. He’s barely played half the games Tanev has.

He’s not carrying a defensive pair. Good shut down guy but I wouldn’t give up a 1st for that.

 

[Ryder71]

This is pretty much spot on with what I'd expect if the deal was Pettersson for Hoglander+.

That sounds like a trade Dubas would consider, or something along those lines.

 

[notsocommonsense]

I threw out Nieto and a 3rd for Hoglander, but what I think could be more appealing for Vancouver is Puljujarvi and a 3rd for Hoglander. Puljujarvi has been really effective when he has played for the Penguins, but Sullivan doesn't seem to like him for whatever reason. Swap of one guy a coach doesn't like for another, with the Penguins throwing on the 3rd to account for Hoglander having more value.



Pettersson is wildly better than Zadorov.

Vancouver has zero need for a forward back

 

[Empoleon8771]

Marginally better even strength defense than Zadorov. I guess I’ve missed the part where Pettersson became a top 5 defender in the league.

Where did I ever say that Pettersson was a top-5 defenseman in the league? I said he was a #3 defenseman while Zadorov is a fringe #4/5. Which is exactly what the JFresh charts there say.

There’s a lot of info out there about his issues getting out of his zone and making a good first pass.

Again, I like the player and a few of you seem personally offended that I compared him to a player I actually really like. Just dial it down a bit. He’s barely played half the games Tanev has.

He’s not carrying a defensive pair. Good shut down guy but I wouldn’t give up a 1st for that.

How does the amount of games played have any relevance to how good he is?

And yes, it's totally fair to not give up a 1st for him. Tanev didn't get back a 1st as a rental last year either. I'm saying that comparing him to Zadorov and saying he'd only get back a similar return is ridiculous, because Pettersson is on par with Tanev and not Zadorov.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Playing 3rd line minutes so far this year. I think he was splitting time on the 2nd and 3rd last year but when the playoffs rolled around he got pushed to the 3rd and his numbers fell. Curious to know why he fell out of favour with Tockett

 

[Jumptheshark]

Literally why would Columbus even remotely consider this

Like I'm questioning if this is even a serious suggestion because of how crazily lopsided it is for the Canucks.

99% of the trades on this board rarely look at the trade from both side

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Pettersson has been on Pittsburgh's top pair for years now, and his metrics are better than every other dman on the team. Trying to downplay what he brings is silly. He's the best dman available at the deadline.

 

[Rowlet]

Playing 3rd line minutes so far this year. I think he was splitting time on the 2nd and 3rd last year but when the playoffs rolled around he got pushed to the 3rd and his numbers fell. Curious to know why he fell out of favour with Tockett

There's a logjam at forwards, lots of injuries have forced a ton of line juggling, he hasn't been playing great defensively, and in the playoffs he couldn't get anything going with an injured Pettersson and a Mikheyev'd Mikheyev.

 

[DeltaSwede]

Literally why would Columbus even remotely consider this

Like I'm questioning if this is even a serious suggestion because of how crazily lopsided it is for the Canucks.

Says the guy consistently throwing out horrible proposals. Nieto and a 3rd? What?

How about Arshdeep Bains for Crosby? Who adds?

 

[Uncle]

Screams dubas and penguins to me. Trying for cheap young nhlers and reclamations - puljujarvi, tomasino, mcgroarty

 

[Empoleon8771]

Says the guy consistently throwing out horrible proposals. Nieto and a 3rd? What?

How about Arshdeep Bains for Crosby? Who adds?

You are aware that Hoglander has 5 points in 23 games this year? On what planet is he somehow getting a better return than Nieto and a 3rd? His value right now is only a 2nd or 3rd at best. Nieto is a warm body just included so it's an even contract swap, he has zero value.

 

[RandV]

Price for Zadorov was 3rd and 5th. Pettersson would have very similar value, or slightly lower.

That doesn't mean anything. Vancouver got Zadorov for cheap because Calgary wanted to move him early in the season with no salary retention, and we were basically the only option. That has no bearing on a Marcus Petterson trade, who the Pens can could hold out on and probably get a 1st.

Personally I find Hoglander to be overrated by a lot of Canuck fans, in general I'm always wary of guys who out of nowhere score a lot more goals than assists. But while he's wearing out in Vancouver there's enough there to interest other teams and potentially be a positive asset with a fresh start.

 

[SEALBound]

Not at all. I don’t do that shit. He’s a good player but his strength is not puck moving and that’s what the Canucks need. They have defensive towers already.

1st rounders would say are out there for guys like Provorov, Sandhiem. Game changers. Pettersson is good at a lot of things but not a game changer by any means. I’m sure he’ll get a 2nd but I don’t think he’s getting much more. I just think him and Zadorov are similar and would bring similar packages.

Zadorov was excellent in Vancouver last year and is beloved by fans here.

I like Provorov and Sanheim but if you're thinking they are going to be "game changers" over Pettersson, I have a condo with an ocean view in Kansas I'd like to discuss with you.

 

[UrbanImpact]

There are some rumblings that Hronek's recent shoulder injury will require surgery which could end his season or at the very leasy have him out for 4-6 months. Having said that with Hronek in the lineup, the Canucks were already talking about how they needed more puck moving and 2 way production from their Dmen.

This is why I think Pettersson is not their target. Pettersson is an excellent shut down Dman and will be a good addition to a playoff team. In my opinion, The Canucks are going for a bigger name and a Dman that is more able to be a 2way Dman than Pettterson. I think they will be trying to make a huge blockbuster trade for the likes of Dobson or Sanheim or Byram type.

 

[SEALBound]

There are some rumblings that Hronek's recent shoulder injury will require surgery which could end his season or at the very leasy have him out for 4-6 months. Having said that with Hronek in the lineup, the Canucks were already talking about how they needed more puck moving and 2 way production from their Dmen.

This is why I think Pettersson is not their target. Pettersson is an excellent shut down Dman and will be a good addition to a playoff team. In my opinion, The Canucks are going for a bigger name and a Dman that is more able to be a 2way Dman than Pettterson. I think they will be trying to make a huge blockbuster trade for the likes of Dobson or Sanheim or Byram type.

That's not a completely unfair take either. To be fair, I do think we're getting a little outside of the tread title here. Penguins could still trade for Hoglander and the Canucks could still bring in a dman in moves independent of each other.

Hoglander to the Pens for a 3rd, 1st+3rd+Pettersson to NYI for Dobson.

 

[Nucker42]

Where did I ever say that Pettersson was a top-5 defenseman in the league? I said he was a #3 defenseman while Zadorov is a fringe #4/5. Which is exactly what the JFresh charts there say.



How does the amount of games played have any relevance to how good he is?

And yes, it's totally fair to not give up a 1st for him. Tanev didn't get back a 1st as a rental last year either. I'm saying that comparing him to Zadorov and saying he'd only get back a similar return is ridiculous, because Pettersson is on par with Tanev and not Zadorov.

Pettersson has been on Pittsburgh's top pair for years now, and his metrics are better than every other dman on the team. Trying to downplay what he brings is silly. He's the best dman available at the deadline.

No one downplayed him. I compared him to a player I really like and who is beloved in Vancouver. He’s a good 2nd pairing defender.