Hockey Alberta considers getting rid of geographic restrictions for minor hockey

[Yukon Joe]

This is my son’s 3rd year in Ontario minor hockey, and to someone who was totally unfamiliar with it, I can’t believe how many associations there are within a stone’s throw of each other. And because of OMHA and Alliance you can have 2 organizations 15 minutes down the road from one another that don’t play each other much.

Seems like now that enrolment is an issue, even house league hockey has become travel hockey. Maybe I just don’t appreciate the pride and history of each organization, but it seems kind of crazy.

Curious what you mean by "travel hockey".

One thing I've noticed in Edmonton is you could easily have a league with just Edmonton proper, but that would leave the surrounding bedroom communities (St Albert, Sherwood Park) stuck playing rural teams. So "Edmonton minor hockey" includes the bedroom communities. But that then also brings in some of the really more rural areas as well. So at worst I might have to drive a solid hour to get my kid to a game out in the country - although probably not more than once per year.

I know from talking with other hockey parents that can be a source of frustration for rural parents. They already have to drive 1-2 hours for games, and the city is only 1-2 hours away anyways - why can't they play in the city (and maybe get some shopping done as well). City parents though hate the idea of having to drive that far.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I'm in a mysterious largish Western Canadian city that none of you will ever in a million years guess.

Minor hockey for my oldest (at least to this point, U13), is generally within the city, with only the occasional visit to a bedroom community. Which I am deeply grateful for because all the competition my kid's team needs and then some is easily found within a half hour of home. I would not be thrilled if I had a 90 minute drive at this time of year to a league game.

There are of course tournaments that involve longer drives and sometimes overnight stays, but those are rare enough (no more than a couple out of town tournaments a year) and generally enough fun that no one minds.

Interestingly, my youngest plays ringette and for her we quite often have to go to rural areas. Nowhere terribly far, like maybe 45 minutes max, but I assume that is because of the relatively small number of ringette teams relative to hockey.

But the point is that I would be annoyed if the elite travel team formula was the only way to play hockey. I know at my son's age the AA teams have long road trips and that's fine. But I'd say that most kids don't need that and I don't understand why so many associations focus on this "elite hockey for everyone" type of approach when 99% of kids playing the game aren't elite.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

Curious what you mean by "travel hockey".

One thing I've noticed in Edmonton is you could easily have a league with just Edmonton proper, but that would leave the surrounding bedroom communities (St Albert, Sherwood Park) stuck playing rural teams. So "Edmonton minor hockey" includes the bedroom communities. But that then also brings in some of the really more rural areas as well. So at worst I might have to drive a solid hour to get my kid to a game out in the country - although probably not more than once per year.

I know from talking with other hockey parents that can be a source of frustration for rural parents. They already have to drive 1-2 hours for games, and the city is only 1-2 hours away anyways - why can't they play in the city (and maybe get some shopping done as well). City parents though hate the idea of having to drive that far.

Yeah it’s not crazy travel, but you’d think that a house league in say, Guelph (pop. 150 000) wouldn’t be travelling to play teams in Hamilton or Cambridge. And a lot of this is because Alliance and OMHA are separate.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

I'm pretty sure Hamilton is Alliance? My son plays in London and the Hamilton Huskies are a regular opponent.

I don’t want to offend anyone because I don’t live in Hamilton, and I’m not sure about AAA programs but I was thinking of the Huskies, Lawfield, Coronation, Dundas, Dofasco, Mount Hamilton, Rosedale. Probably leaving a few out here. Some of these organizations are OMHA but they might play exhibition games against Alliance teams. Compare this with say Kitchener, which seems like a really powerful association because there’s not much splintering.

 

[CuuuJooo]

I don’t want to offend anyone because I don’t live in Hamilton, and I’m not sure about AAA programs but I was thinking of the Huskies, Lawfield, Coronation, Dundas, Dofasco, Mount Hamilton, Rosedale. Probably leaving a few out here. Some of these organizations are OMHA but they might play exhibition games against Alliance teams. Compare this with say Kitchener, which seems like a really powerful association because there’s not much splintering.

Kitchener's teams are always strong. And I agree with you about the lack of splintering. Everything is under the umbrella of the Jr. Rangers.

London is a weird case. We're surrounded by smaller communities -- including St. Thomas -- who are all OMHA teams. And there's no umbrella organization like Kitchener has that oversees everything. At the BB level and below, there are four completely separate clubs that kids are filtered into based on where they live. I worry that with the removal of borders, two of the four (Oakridge Aeros and London Bandits) will fizzle out, since they have less money and fewer kids within the organization to begin with.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

Kitchener's teams are always strong. And I agree with you about the lack of splintering. Everything is under the umbrella of the Jr. Rangers.

London is a weird case. We're surrounded by smaller communities -- including St. Thomas -- who are all OMHA teams. And there's no umbrella organization like Kitchener has that oversees everything. At the BB level and below, there are four completely separate clubs that kids are filtered into based on where they live. I worry that with the removal of borders, two of the four (Oakridge Aeros and London Bandits) will fizzle out, since they have less money and fewer kids within the organization to begin with.

Yeah I guess it depends on how far someone from Oakridge has to travel to be part of say, the West London club. It might actually be a good thing to amalgamate, but there’s probably some older dude from Oakridge that would punch me in the face for saying so.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Ontario posters - what is this Alliance vs OMHA split? I can guess that OMHA is Ontario Minor Hockey Association, but otherwise this is all greek to me.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Ontario posters - what is this Alliance vs OMHA split? I can guess that OMHA is Ontario Minor Hockey Association, but otherwise this is all greek to me.

Here is a quick and dirty summary:

History (London Junior Knights)

London Junior Knights powered by MBSportsWeb

londonjuniorknights.com

Today, Ontario is easily the most over-regulated/over-governed jurisdiction in North America.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Here is a quick and dirty summary:

So - these words are all in English, and I know what they mean individually - but taken together this makes almost no sense to me...

Good to know though that all the strife in Alberta is not unprecedented however (what with the issues between Hockey Alberta, CSSHL. HSL/JPHL, etc)

 

[BadgerBruce]

So - these words are all in English, and I know what they mean individually - but taken together this makes almost no sense to me...

Good to know though that all the strife in Alberta is not unprecedented however (what with the issues between Hockey Alberta, CSSHL. HSL/JPHL, etc)

I’ll put together a (slightly) clearer version for you and post it in the next day or so, but the long and the short of the story is that governance of Ontario amateur hockey, for adults and kids, has been utterly ridiculous since the OHA self-appointed itself as a governing body in 1890.

 

[timekeep]

I'm in a mysterious largish Western Canadian city that none of you will ever in a million years guess.

Minor hockey for my oldest (at least to this point, U13), is generally within the city, with only the occasional visit to a bedroom community. Which I am deeply grateful for because all the competition my kid's team needs and then some is easily found within a half hour of home. I would not be thrilled if I had a 90 minute drive at this time of year to a league game.

There are of course tournaments that involve longer drives and sometimes overnight stays, but those are rare enough (no more than a couple out of town tournaments a year) and generally enough fun that no one minds.

Interestingly, my youngest plays ringette and for her we quite often have to go to rural areas. Nowhere terribly far, like maybe 45 minutes max, but I assume that is because of the relatively small number of ringette teams relative to hockey.

But the point is that I would be annoyed if the elite travel team formula was the only way to play hockey. I know at my son's age the AA teams have long road trips and that's fine. But I'd say that most kids don't need that and I don't understand why so many associations focus on this "elite hockey for everyone" type of approach when 99% of kids playing the game aren't elite.

Portage???

 

[Yukon Joe]

Portage???

Portage la Prairie is in no way a largish city.

I'm guessing Brandon.

 

[timekeep]

Portage la Prairie is in no way a largish city.

I'm guessing Brandon.

PLP is largish compared to Oakville and Elie....

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

Ontario posters - what is this Alliance vs OMHA split? I can guess that OMHA is Ontario Minor Hockey Association, but otherwise this is all greek to me.

Alliance and OMHA are two rival minor hockey governing bodies that pretty much exist in the exact same geographical area Southern Ontario (minus Toronto which is governed by GTHL and Eastern Ontario). Which seems silly.

 

[Yukon Joe]

PLP is largish compared to Oakville and Elie....

Neither of which are technically cities...

If not Brandon, my second guess is Steinbach (both of which are cities).

 

[Yukon Joe]

So actually it sounds like Ontario is doing something similar - getting rid of residency requirements at U10 and above. Which includes Alliance, OMHA and GTHL.

Key Changes to Player Movement Regulations

www.ohf.on.ca

 

[timekeep]

Neither of which are technically cities...

If not Brandon, my second guess is Steinbach (both of which are cities).

Now I'm curious where he is located....

 

[jetsmooseice]

Now I'm curious where he is located....

Haha, you guys are overthinking it. I'm in Winnipeg!!!!

 

[timekeep]

Haha, you guys are overthinking it. I'm in Winnipeg!!!!

Thats what I originally thought but you said that we would never guess. Winnipeg used to be the 3rd largest city in Canada. I was joking about PLP as its not that big.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Thats what I originally thought but you said that we would never guess. Winnipeg used to be the 3rd largest city in Canada. I was joking about PLP as its not that big.

Haha, I figured that my avatar gave it away...

Anyway, it is interesting to read about this splintering and various factions in certain places. Here in Winnipeg it is largely cohesive, it's really the academies that are horning in a bit on the existing minor/junior hockey apparatus but even then it's aimed at the high school aged kids. I could be wrong but I'm not aware of any rival organizations siphoning off 12 year olds from the Hockey Winnipeg/Hockey Manitoba systems, for instance. For younger players, that only really happens at the spring hockey level, in the fall everyone goes back to their regular teams.

Given that we tend to a bit behind the curve with these things, it's probably just a matter of time until it starts happening here too though. Which would be unfortunate, I like the way it's run right now. It feels like everyone's needs are being met from recreational house league right up to elite AAA, and at a somewhat reasonable cost. I'm not aware that anyone is getting rich off the Hockey Winnipeg/Hockey Manitoba system.

 

[timekeep]

I'm thinking they are worried about both the academies and the JPHL/SHL which is run by the Silent Air guys. They are running the BCHL as well. Edit. Leading the charge in taking off to the BCHL.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Haha, you guys are overthinking it. I'm in Winnipeg!!!!

That was the joke. It was obvious it was Winnipeg. When you said "you'll never guess" that's where @timekeep and I were going with other Manitoba "cities" that aren't Winnipeg...

 

[Yukon Joe]

I'm thinking they are worried about both the academies and the JPHL/SHL which is run by the Silent Air guys. They are running the BCHL as well.

I hadn't heard the Silent Ice guys were behind the BCHL, but it wouldn't shock me either. They are definitely behind the JPHL/HSL (and own the Seattle Thunderbirds in the WHL).

I don't know the ownership group at all. You have to deeply respect they're putting their money where their mouth is and investing in minor hockey. Their rink in Nisku is absolutely gorgeous.

But they're not running a charity. And it's a little odd to realize that people are trying to make money off of kids hockey.

 

[timekeep]

I hadn't heard the Silent Ice guys were behind the BCHL, but it wouldn't shock me either. They are definitely behind the JPHL/HSL (and own the Seattle Thunderbirds in the WHL).

I don't know the ownership group at all. You have to deeply respect they're putting their money where their mouth is and investing in minor hockey. Their rink in Nisku is absolutely gorgeous.

But they're not running a charity. And it's a little odd to realize that people are trying to make money off of kids hockey.

Not sure how much they are making off of their kids leagues. I heard they started up because they had run in with Spruce Grove hockey and Hockey AB/CA. They own the Saints as well and were leading the other teams in running off to the BCHL. I shouldn't have used 'running the BCHL' as that is probably incorrect.

Hockey Canada and the provincial orgs are making the most of the youth hockey.