Hitchcock - "The WC hockey is better than the Olympics."

[kabidjan18]

People arguing for the format: the NHL has already said it's just this once. You may not believe them, that's on you.
People arguing against the format: the NHL has already said it's just this once. You may not believe them, that's on you.

Whether or not this tournament is a success depends mostly on if people still buy, and not just tickets but merchandise, do people tune in on television, etc. There's an interesting dynamic with the USA fans though that we realize because of the existence of the Young guns team we're not icing our best players. What if Team Europe or the Czech Republic beats the US in the prelims and we fail to qualify for the playoff round. Worse, what if the GWG is from Leon Draisaitl, Tomas Hertl or David Pastrnak. A lot of us already think it's stupid that they can ice U23 players and we can't. If we don't make the playoff round there will be a whole lot of butt-hurt americans out there going "well if we had Johnny Hockey and Jack Eichel" then "oh well I thought it was stupid to begin with" or "I really never cared, I don't care" or "you going to watch the final? Ha, me neither" then yeah we may be sore losers but we're also the market. Optimally for the NHL, the USA and Canada make it, beat Russia and Sweden (presumably) and face each other in the final for a repeat of Vancouver. However, if the US doesn't make the playoff, ratings will plummet and ESPN will have a heavy hand at the negotiating table late on. An all European final would also be bad for the league if per say Canada loses to Russia in the semis then you might hear a "well if we had McDavid and not Carter" so I don't think there's any merit in debating this beforehand. Depending on how the fanbase reacts, and how the tournament plays out the outcomes could be very different.

 

[Faltorvo]

I still don't understand why there's a team north america and team europe.

None of this makes sense to me.

Truth be told

It's because there is no time slot where they can play this tourney

and have enough players available from around the world to fill out the rosters for the 7th/8th ranked teams/countries in the world. Or teams that would emerge from a play down style entry.


Most of those other countrys/teams players play in leagues other then the NHL and they won't "lend us" their players for this, when their leagues are supposed to be up and running.

 

[Faltorvo]

People arguing for the format: the NHL has already said it's just this once. You may not believe them, that's on you.
People arguing against the format: the NHL has already said it's just this once. You may not believe them, that's on you.

Whether or not this tournament is a success depends mostly on if people still buy, and not just tickets but merchandise, do people tune in on television, etc. There's an interesting dynamic with the USA fans though that we realize because of the existence of the Young guns team we're not icing our best players. What if Team Europe or the Czech Republic beats the US in the prelims and we fail to qualify for the playoff round. Worse, what if the GWG is from Leon Draisaitl, Tomas Hertl or David Pastrnak. A lot of us already think it's stupid that they can ice U23 players and we can't. If we don't make the playoff round there will be a whole lot of butt-hurt americans out there going "well if we had Johnny Hockey and Jack Eichel" then "oh well I thought it was stupid to begin with" or "I really never cared, I don't care" or "you going to watch the final? Ha, me neither" then yeah we may be sore losers but we're also the market. Optimally for the NHL, the USA and Canada make it, beat Russia and Sweden (presumably) and face each other in the final for a repeat of Vancouver. However, if the US doesn't make the playoff, ratings will plummet and ESPN will have a heavy hand at the negotiating table late on. An all European final would also be bad for the league if per say Canada loses to Russia in the semis then you might hear a "well if we had McDavid and not Carter" so I don't think there's any merit in debating this beforehand. Depending on how the fanbase reacts, and how the tournament plays out the outcomes could be very different.

Don't believe the bolded for one second.

"those other countries" players are in the SEL/KHL and the likes

there is no time slot where we can/will host this tourney and those other leagues won't be up and running and wanting/needing their players.

It was never anything personal (like, they ain't worthy or the likes) it's pure logistics.

 

[sandysan]

Ah, now I see why you're ok with this travesty.

You don't even know what a best-on-best event is.

the best players playing the best players ? And right now team young guns would likely make any other team outside of the us and canada who have immense depth. you want to wait 4 or 8 years to see the young guys ? Personally I would prefer that countries with goot talent but no depth stop being used as cannon fodder. But that's just me. Mabey we can get the ladies ( the us or canada) to whoop up on greece or israel 37-0 in order to grow the game.

And as far as best on best, the world cup is exponentially closer to this goal than the assembled at the last minute world shampionships.

yes I get it that the olympics might be even closer to best on best but the owners no longer want to provide their talent to the ioc for free.

yes or no, right now team left over europe: better chance than ANY of the contributing nations or not ? if the answer is yes, what's the problem again ? too much parity ? too many games that will be close ? OOOOOH the horrors!

 

[Faltorvo]

the best players playing the best players ? And right now team young guns would likely make any other team outside of the us and canada who have immense depth. you want to wait 4 or 8 years to see the young guys ? Personally I would prefer that countries with goot talent but no depth stop being used as cannon fodder. But that's just me. Mabey we can get the ladies ( the us or canada) to whoop up on greece or israel 37-0 in order to grow the game.

And as far as best on best, the world cup is exponentially closer to this goal than the assembled at the last minute world shampionships.

yes I get it that the olympics might be even closer to best on best but the owners no longer want to provide their talent to the ioc for free.

yes or no, right now team left over europe: better chance than ANY of the contributing nations or not ? if the answer is yes, what's the problem again ? too much parity ? too many games that will be close ? OOOOOH the horrors!

I live just outside TO

and I personally will be boycotting this event

It has nothing to do with the format or the likes

If they announce that they are going to the Olympics (the only true best on best tourney)

then I will change my tune but I won't support the substitute.

 

[Canuckistani]

the best players playing the best players ? And right now team young guns would likely make any other team outside of the us and canada who have immense depth. you want to wait 4 or 8 years to see the young guys ? Personally I would prefer that countries with goot talent but no depth stop being used as cannon fodder. But that's just me. Mabey we can get the ladies ( the us or canada) to whoop up on greece or israel 37-0 in order to grow the game.

And as far as best on best, the world cup is exponentially closer to this goal than the assembled at the last minute world shampionships.

yes I get it that the olympics might be even closer to best on best but the owners no longer want to provide their talent to the ioc for free.

yes or no, right now team left over europe: better chance than ANY of the contributing nations or not ? if the answer is yes, what's the problem again ? too much parity ? too many games that will be close ? OOOOOH the horrors!

Again, you just don't grasp the idea of international competition and how national teams are a pre-requisite.

Your obsession with parity and the NHL's profits simply doesn't allow you to understand what these events are all about.

Will team euro be competitive? That will depend on whether they care, which isn't something you normally have to worry about. Will chara block a shot for his continent after being slapped in the face by the NHL by excluding his country? Maybe, maybe not. Will McDavid want to be remembered for eliminating his own country in Toronto? Not something he's dreamed about, I'm sure. So maybe they will play well and maybe they won't want to risk injury or embarrassment after being put in such a weird position.

Using your parity argument, why not change the NHL playoffs accordingly? Have six teams per conference and add two teams (one North American, one euro) of the best players from the rest. Maybe change the FIFA World Cup so that there's a "team Africa" and u-23 teams from Europe and South America. Why not, right? Let's really unleash the crazy on this.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I live just outside TO

and I personally will be boycotting this event

It has nothing to do with the format or the likes

If they announce that they are going to the Olympics (the only true best on best tourney)

then I will change my tune but I won't support the substitute.

I'm the same. I live in the heart of Toronto but I don't care about the tournament. If I do watch a couple of games on tv, it's to watch McDavid and Eichel play together. I have no emotional investment otherwise.

My main gripe is that the NHL may use this as a reason to pull out of the Olympics. If the NHL commits to the Olympics beforehand, then I will support the World Cup as a supplement. I refuse to be a fool and support the World Cup, only to find out later that the NHL doesn't want to go to the Olympics.

 

[FiLe]

yes or no, right now team left over europe: better chance than ANY of the contributing nations or not ? if the answer is yes, what's the problem again ? too much parity ? too many games that will be close ? OOOOOH the horrors!

Frig parity. If I want to watch games with friggin' parity, I can watch the NHL playoffs, every friggin' spring.

When I watch the international game, I want to see countries take on other countries. And I don't friggin' care whether the squads taking each other on have an even field between themselves or not. Favorites, underdogs, lopsided odds... they've been a natural part of any international teamsports for as long as they've existed. And they don't need friggin' fixing with more parity. Things are as good as they are. Because there are other venues and other mechanisms to ensure parity, like the National Hockey League and its salary cap.

Here's tonight's newsflash for you: All these things you deride about the international game - lack of parity, nationalistic chest thumping and whatnot... they are the very things that make most people tune into the international game. And that is the thing that makes even the World Championships - to which you have given what you must think is a clever nickname in your juvenile mind - infinitely more meaningful than this joke of a tournament.

And the NHL knows this too. If they were really about parity, they wouldn't even bother to disguise this as international hockey - they could just make eight fantasy teams, as loaded and even as possible, and pit them against each other. But because they're a bunch of greedy S.O.Bs they've decided to set up a half-hided imitation of a true international tournament, hoping there will be enough people who can't rub two cells together and realize the thing they're about watch is not a genuine best-on-best international tournament - but a cheap imitation. As you've already been told, the "best" in term "best-on-best" does not refer to best players overall, it refers to the best players in any given country. And if that means all teams won't stand on even field, who the frig cares? It's like this things have been since time immemorial, and people have tuned in in droves. And there's no need to improve it either by adding more "parity", because you don't fix something that ain't broke.

 

[Macman]

Plz.. maybe you should get your facts rights..
http://www.olympic.org/Documents/THE%20IOC/Annual_Report/2014_IOC_AnnualReport_ENG_onscreen.pdf Read pages 110 ->, and then come here saying, it's IOC whos creedy..

Is that supposed to prove that one of the most corrupt sports organization on the planet is suddenly clean? Does that document mention how much it's received in kickbacks and bribes over the decades? Probably not.

 

[sandysan]

Again, you just don't grasp the idea of international competition and how national teams are a pre-requisite.

Your obsession with parity and the NHL's profits simply doesn't allow you to understand what these events are all about.

Will team euro be competitive? That will depend on whether they care, which isn't something you normally have to worry about. Will chara block a shot for his continent after being slapped in the face by the NHL by excluding his country? Maybe, maybe not. Will McDavid want to be remembered for eliminating his own country in Toronto? Not something he's dreamed about, I'm sure. So maybe they will play well and maybe they won't want to risk injury or embarrassment after being put in such a weird position.

Using your parity argument, why not change the NHL playoffs accordingly? Have six teams per conference and add two teams (one North American, one euro) of the best players from the rest. Maybe change the FIFA World Cup so that there's a "team Africa" and u-23 teams from Europe and South America. Why not, right? Let's really unleash the crazy on this.

This us a tourney run by the nhl for the nhl and I'm the one who doesnt understand international competitions?
This isnt one. Mabey you might want to whine that the World cup isnt a ham sandwich either.

We dont do it in the nhl because the cap ensures parity. And I couldnt give two craps what fifa chooses to do or not.

This is an invitatiobal tournanent. Whining about it because its not something it ever claimed it would be because you would like it more exposes your ignorance.

 

[sandysan]

Frig parity. If I want to watch games with friggin' parity, I can watch the NHL playoffs, every friggin' spring.

When I watch the international game, I want to see countries take on other countries. And I don't friggin' care whether the squads taking each other on have an even field between themselves or not. Favorites, underdogs, lopsided odds... they've been a natural part of any international teamsports for as long as they've existed. And they don't need friggin' fixing with more parity. Things are as good as they are. Because there are other venues and other mechanisms to ensure parity, like the National Hockey League and its salary cap.

Here's tonight's newsflash for you: All these things you deride about the international game - lack of parity, nationalistic chest thumping and whatnot... they are the very things that make most people tune into the international game. And that is the thing that makes even the World Championships - to which you have given what you must think is a clever nickname in your juvenile mind - infinitely more meaningful than this joke of a tournament.

And the NHL knows this too. If they were really about parity, they wouldn't even bother to disguise this as international hockey - they could just make eight fantasy teams, as loaded and even as possible, and pit them against each other. But because they're a bunch of greedy S.O.Bs they've decided to set up a half-hided imitation of a true international tournament, hoping there will be enough people who can't rub two cells together and realize the thing they're about watch is not a genuine best-on-best international tournament - but a cheap imitation. As you've already been told, the "best" in term "best-on-best" does not refer to best players overall, it refers to the best players in any given country. And if that means all teams won't stand on even field, who the frig cares? It's like this things have been since time immemorial, and people have tuned in in droves. And there's no need to improve it either by adding more "parity", because you don't fix something that ain't broke.

If people will cheer for chaff wearing a flag why does no obe give a crap about the world shampionships? Or an olympic roster full of never will be's and has beens has about as much appeal as watching paint dry.

The talent is the draw. If you want to just waive a flag then watch anything. Any sport. You dont need a puck and ice to scratch that nationalistic itch.

 

[BayStreetBully]

If people will cheer for chaff wearing a flag why does no obe give a crap about the world shampionships? Or an olympic roster full of never will be's and has beens has about as much appeal as watching paint dry.

The talent is the draw. If you want to just waive a flag then watch anything. Any sport. You dont need a puck and ice to scratch that nationalistic itch.

If you want to just watch talented teams with no purpose then watch the all-star game. Any sport. You don't need a new tournament to scratch that talent itch.

 

[Oan]

1) no, they are no such comments that indicates there would rather be somewhere else, please provide me a link of anything like this. That is completely made up.

Mark Streit doesn't like this format:

http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2015/01/22/one-flyer-happy-new-world-cup-format/22192403/

 

[Scouter]

Let's be honest, the real gripe here is that the Bettman/the NHL/NA is trying to own the game, that they are not putting money into developing hockey in Europe.

 

[Canuckistani]

This us a tourney run by the nhl for the nhl and I'm the one who doesnt understand international competitions?
This isnt one. Mabey you might want to whine that the World cup isnt a ham sandwich either.

We dont do it in the nhl because the cap ensures parity. And I couldnt give two craps what fifa chooses to do or not.

This is an invitatiobal tournanent. Whining about it because its not something it ever claimed it would be because you would like it more exposes your ignorance.

Good lord, you don't even know the position of those you're trying to defend.

You say this isn't an international competition, and that "it's not something it ever claimed it would be."

In fact the NHL has repeatedly said that the World Cup is a best on best international competition. They've never claimed to be putting on anything other than that. And now this sham could replace the Olympics, leaving us without a real best-on-best event.

If you're going to be a shill for the NHL at least have some knowledge of their talking points.

And obviously the cap doesn't ensure parity or else Florida, Edmonton, Toronto, Calgary, Columbus, Buffalo and Carolina would make the playoffs a little more often than they do. So why not adopt some World Cup idiocy in order to give the best players from those teams a shot at the cup?

 

[Scouter]

I too at first was not into this.

The main point is this should be a very good event regarding the actual teams involved, minus the politics, obviously the players won't be in mid-season form though, but they should bring enough intensity to compensate.

I maybe hardly thought about seeing how young stars would stack up against established vets, but now I'm quite curious.

 

[QnebO]

People arguing for the format: the NHL has already said it's just this once. You may not believe them, that's on you.

The problem is, they could've agreed to fans an year ago that they were wrong and take the Swiss and Slovaks in. They still could change it.

 

[FinRuutu]

The other is gimmick tournament with joke teams.

The other is 92 year old tournament with prestige.

Yeah, the small ice is the difference.

 

[hirawl]

This is a marketing effort and a poor one at that. People will still watch and be thinking they are seeing the best players in a best on best tournament. And they will be correct. What they don't understand is that the players they see are out of shape and play poor hockey.

To ditch the Olympics for this charade is just a big shame. Surely they'll have a breakaway challenge with the funny wigs and the fake beards and the costumes too?

The youngsters will kick everyone's ass and I would be very happy for that if I gave a ****.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Olympic hockey is a bigger deal. It only comes around 1 every 4 years and is a much bigger stage that even non hockey fans can really get into it. Olympics are totally better IMO

 

[Jumptheshark]

No one in Europe is paying any attention to this farce

 

[kabidjan18]

The problem is, they could've agreed to fans an year ago that they were wrong and take the Swiss and Slovaks in. They still could change it.

I would've gone 12 teams, had 6 spots up for qualification and had a 4 day tournament for 18 teams to battle for 6 spots. I agree with the NHL that just taking the Swiss and the Slovaks in wouldn't be right, IIHF rankings don't reflect true national power. Admitting wrongdoing isn't necessary when you've already said it was a one time deal though so...people keep forgetting the one time deal announcement wasn't a reaction to people's reactions it was part of the plan all along.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Pierre McGuire on the radio, ''I'm not even thinking about the World Cup, it's an exhibition tournament.''

LOL even the nhl's number one analyst can honestly look at the situation and realize what this tournament is, nothing but a money maker. This shouldn't even be in the International tournament section, keep in the nhl section, this is not a tournament millions and millions of people around the World are awaiting for.

Not that I'm a fan of this tournament, but provide some context please... I didn't hear the interview, but I bet it was was on TSN radio! You know, that rival to SN who happen to hold the broadcast rights to the tournament...had TSN not lost NHL national rights and were the rights holder to this tournament, he'd be singing a different tune for sure. All of them are the same, just like Damien Cox, who years before SN acquired NHL rights was a vocal critic of bringing back the World Cup. but when SN actually emptied their bank accounts for a National NHL broadcast deal with the World Cup, Mister Damien Cox all of a sudden found Jesus and trumpeted a reborn World Cup as the best thing since sliced bread. And surprise surprise The Gimmicky teams was a genius invention, so ingenious that nobody ever thought of it before. So what Pierre McGuire says holds little to no value.- hypocrites the entire lot of them. We all sing for our supper. Hell, if the NHL wants to wire some funds into my retirement bank account in exchange for consulting services, i.e. promote this gong show and watch, then they know where to find me. because without getting paid, this gong show is not worth my time. I can play the game just like McGuire and Cox.

 

[FiLe]

If people will cheer for chaff wearing a flag why does no obe give a crap about the world shampionships? Or an olympic roster full of never will be's and has beens has about as much appeal as watching paint dry.

The talent is the draw. If you want to just waive a flag then watch anything. Any sport. You dont need a puck and ice to scratch that nationalistic itch.

Let me tell you a little story...

You're in a sports bar. A large group of people have gathered around a screen showing a hockey game. The overtime is on, and people are on the edge of their seats. Then, some never will be scores. He plays for living in a team located in a town most people in North America will never learn to spell. Yet, the whole place just explodes. Some random girl, way above your league, gives you a spontaneous embrace. She ends the contact by planting a big kiss on your cheek before vanishing into the crowd. You stand there for a moment, with a dumb smile on your face.

Outside, on the street, people are in good spirits. A big game's been won. At the same time, across the world, somebody who earns $10M a year scores the GWG in the game 5 of some 2nd round series in the SC playoffs. But what's that in this place? A footnote in tomorrow's papers.

Somewhere in another continent, some juvie living in his mother's basement has watched that game, and thinks there's nothing better in the world of hockey. But would you switch places with him? Not for all the money in the world. You can't even find yourself to be mad at him. All you feel is pity. He really needs to get out more.

I've been present in scenes like this in multiple cities across Europe. And every time I've felt the World Championships are totally worth it. Because it's not the quality of players that makes it all that. It's the quality of the spectators. People who somehow know how to be enthusiastic about hockey even when all the talent's not there, because they still feel a connection with one of the teams and its players. And given that more than half the players in this World Cup come from hockey hotbeds like this, it's the enthusiasm of these very people that has bred most of the talent you so cherish.

So, how 'bout it? Get out a bit more, see the world instead of writing snide remarks behind a keyboard. As this Internet Tough Guy act you're putting up won't survive the coming generations even as a footnote in your gravestone.

 

[stv11]

After this wise message, it's time to close this thread. It quickly went off topic anyway.

And a little reminder: This forum is about international hockey and exists for the enjoyment of fans of international hockey (see site rule number 2).