Hitchcock and Armstrong's Job Security

[carter333167]

The Blues have enough to win a cup and did last year too but the margins are so thin when you do not have top end talent up front. You need goalies to steal games and you need luck. Hard to win without true top players.

This^.........we don't have the forward talent of 3-5 other teams in the Western Conference. Thus, we try to win with D and a system.

I would rank us behind Chicago, Anaheim, Colorado, San Jose, LA and perhaps Dallas (now that they have Seguin and many other fast skaters) in terms of talent at forward. Colorado has scary talent, San Jose is a different team with Hertl, et. al.

This conference is brutal and it is only getting more competitive. We definitely need to add some speed.

 

[LongLiveTheNote]

Shattenkirk, Berglund, and a 1st doesn't touch Malkin or Tavares.

There may be a market for Malkin (I honestly think he would play better out of Crosby's shadow), but those doesn't get the deal done. Shatty would have to be the 2nd best asset from our side and what else would/could we give up that's a better asset? Oshie?

Tavares is coming off a bad injury, so his value is probably at his lowest, but he has such a good contract I don't think they are trading him for anything less than the Stamkos/Malkin tier.

 

[DekeLikeYouMeanIt]

You guys are just a little emotional now. Your team is young and getting better. With more on the way. Armstrong is a solid GM making the right moves (Halak wasn't doing jack) and Hitch is.. well Hitch. Like Sutter he's difficult, but he is a very good coach.

 

[Chippewa]

I'm now in favor of letting both go.

Armstrong - I'm becoming more and more scared that he is doing the exact same thing he did in Dallas, here. I do not want to become the mid 2000's Stars. His moves this last year have been pretty bad. Even his vaunted Shattenkirk/EJ trade is starting to lose it's luster. And hindsight is NOT an excuse. It is EXACTLY how you should judge a GM, coach, player, team. Armstrong is paid a lot of money to make the correct decisions. He failed in that this year. We are a weaker team, a more humiliated and confidence drained team, have less prospect depth and have less draft pick depth than at this point last year.

It really bums me out because I was one of those people who, when things were going badly for us, would calm myself down by thinking "It's allright, Army's got this".

As for Hitch, I think we have a sufficient body of work in the playoffs (the real season) to know what we are getting from him. And it isn't pretty. No changes to the gameplan. Kinda seems like a fundamental thing to do, doesn't it? But no, for Hitch, if we lose it is because the players didn't "buy in" enough. Powerplay problems lasting his entire tenure here, save for a 3 month period where one player got hotter than the sun. Teams know how to defend his system, the good teams defend his system almost flawlessly.

I knew this team was in trouble after the first few games vs the Pacific. Anyone else remember that? Good teams shut Hitch's creatively and dynamically challenegd system down pretty damn well. And when you can't score, have a totally inept powerplay, it takes a lot better than a (very damn good) 2.00 GAA (Elliott vs the Kings) to win a series.

I'll follow the team if both are back next year. I do absolutely think we need serious upgrades to our offense. But I think Army and Hitch have played bigger roles than any one (or two, or three) player(s) in our spectaculr playoff collapses for the last 3 seasons, and I think we know what we are getting from them. It isn't good enough.

 

[Onan]

I'm getting sick of the blues doing great all season and then collapsing in the 1st round... Hitch and army are single-handedly ruining St.louis

Its nice to have good regular season, but the team should be build for the playoffs.

 

[Robb_K]

The only reason we finished 7th was because of Steen's insane start. Everything he was shooting on the power play was going in. Our powerplay in the second half was abysmal. Plus, it's not just the fact that we went 2 for 29. It was that in going 2 for 29, Hitch and the coaching staff didn't even try to do anything different. They just kept throwing the same stupid system out there expecting it to work. And when it didn't, they failed to make proper adjustments.

What SYSTEM??? Even a 3 year old could see that The Blues weren't scoring because their players without the puck weren't moving at all, so the defenders guarding them didn't need to move, so the two outer box defenders could pressure the only shooters (point men), and could stay in the line of fire, to block shots. Why didn't Blues' coaches just tell The Blues' power play players to start moving again and varying the directions of their movements so they can't be predicted? (and also send players without the puck towards the net!)

At 4 years old I'd have mentioned that to my coach. It looks to me like The Blues' coaches and power play players were paid to sabotage The Blues' PP scoring. If you paid them, they couldn't have done a better job other than just throwing down their sticks and skating figure 8s back in their own zone!

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

What SYSTEM??? Even a 3 year old could see that The Blues weren't scoring because their players without the puck weren't moving at all, so the defenders guarding them didn't need to move, so the two outer box defenders could pressure the only shooters (point men), and could stay in the line of fire, to block shots. Why didn't Blues' coaches just tell The Blues' power play players to start moving again and varying the directions of their movements so they can't be predicted? (and also send players without the puck towards the net!)

At 4 years old I'd have mentioned that to my coach. It looks to me like The Blues' coaches and power play players were paid to sabotage The Blues' PP scoring. If you paid them, they couldn't have done a better job other than just throwing down their sticks and skating figure 8s back in their own zone!

Because the coach needs to go. It has been a long time since we have had this much talent upfront. He wants to play third line hockey with his first and second lines, and then expects a miracle from the lower 2 lines in 10 minutes of hockey a game. The power play as you stated above is powerless. Stand around and hope someone might fall down? Give it to the point men for wrist shots close to the net and try to tip them on net? Two words....Hitch bye! I wouldn't blame the point men for getting their shots blocked or losing the puck, when that is Hitch's only play.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

I say they both get one more year even after 3 straight playoff failures, but who knows how Stillman is feeling right now. The seats are warmer then they were a month ago that's for sure.

Armstrong now has the Miller/Ott trade that didn't work out now on his watch, but would you replace him with a Mcphee? No. Feaster?

Coach wise, Trotz? All this talk for Trotz makes me go Why? He's a Hitch type coach with even less playoff wins on his resume then Hitch? Pass.

 

[Note Worthy]

Unless you show me a better coach coming in, I think letting Hitchcock go is reactionary and shortsighted. The one guy I think you could make a strong case for is Trotz.

This.

And I wouldn't even worry about Trotz. He's a less sucessful Hitch.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

I say they both get one more year even after 3 straight playoff failures, but who knows how Stillman is feeling right now. The seats are warmer then they were a month ago that's for sure.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

As someone who lived through the Mike Keenan era and yes Hitch is a lot like Mike. I would cut our losses now, instead of letting him destroy the team. Take a look at what he did to the teams that let him go. The complaints of the players themselves rebelling. He along with management dismantled the team's talent and draft picks. Cut our losses now.

 

[michall]

So coach H to DET and coach Babcock to STL? Basically roosters swap

 

[Old Blueser]

I have a lot of criticisms of Hitch, and how his system contributes to our inability to score goals. Just one example, the system is supposed to produce greasy, grind goals, but those goals only happen if someone is around the net. The Blues almost always send all three forwards to the same corner on a scrum. It pained me anytime a Blue sent a blind centering pass to the slot from the wall this season: no one is ever there to do anything with it so why bother?

I could go on but for now I won't because the coaching doesn't matter much if guys can't hit the net. Jay-Bo in particular needs to be willing and able to at least hit the goalie if he's going to play such huge minutes. But he seems like he has no confidence in his shot.

Speaking of no confidence, I thought the Blues backed off the Hawks too much and looked scared of them. Their D was much less aggressive than in the regular season and they allowed the Hawks to move more quickly and easily through the zones, leading to more time trapped in our end. Since we got burned on breakaways anyway, how much worse could it have been? We should have played our game instead of letting the Hawks dictate.

 

[Thallis]

Jaybo was an auction, he was going to the highest bidder.

If you listen to Bob McKenzie, it sounds like he didn't.

 

[Chippewa]

Hitch's contract is up. That makes it an easier decision for Stillman (money money money).

Trotz? Idk. Can Trotz coach an effective offense? Has he ever had the chance to? Does his "system" let the forwards do what needs to be done to scatter the opposing teams defense? Open up shooting lanes?

Tbh I think I'd prefer Laviolette.

But this is likely beside the point if Army is staying. Go back and read what Dallas fans had to say about him. I'm getting worried.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

No offense bro, but you're ******** me right?

So Ken Hitchcock was the only constant on this team throughout the 3 playoffs you're referring to? How about Berglund, Backes, Oshie, Steen, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Jackman, Polak, and Reaves?

What has the "core" among the listed names done to elevate their games, however possible, in the past 3 bow-outs? This isn't a problem?

I think the point is that the top teams have some of the top players, and no matter how nuanced that argument always seems to be, at the end of the day, those are the teams that tend to move on.

Now, the Blues had enough to win, but it was predicated on the reality of having to be near perfect, and no team can avoid mistakes in the playoffs. The main difference, this year and last, is capitalizing on mistakes, something this team seems to be inept at doing come April.

And a coach that makes no adjustments. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting different results.

 

[medkit]

Hitchcock had a really poor series and it wasn't just the powerplay, though that is a big deal too. Chicago's three wins at home were no great mystery. This team has won only one playoff road game in three years. We won't go farther than the 1st or 2nd round until that gets figured out. At home we can use our top line and 4th line to try and shutdown the opponent's top line and score with our depth, but on the road all Q had to do was stack Hossa-Toews-Kane and roll them out every time he saw our third line touch the ice. Toews and Kane were getting a point per game and Berglund was -7.

How do you address that? Well you don't stick Roy and Reaves on the third line, that's for sure. Plenty of questionable personnel decisions by Hitchcock this series. Sometimes it feels like he plays guys like Berglund and Roy just because they are "supposed" to be good even though they are sieves.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I still say, letting Q go was one of the biggest mistakes this organization has ever done. I'm ok with letting Hitch go, but who do we bring in?

 

[Vladys Gumption]

You guys are just a little emotional now. Your team is young and getting better. With more on the way. Armstrong is a solid GM making the right moves (Halak wasn't doing jack) and Hitch is.. well Hitch. Like Sutter he's difficult, but he is a very good coach.

This is three straight years of getting bounced because we couldn't score. Our power play was horrific all three years, and the coaching staff failed to make simple adjustments even once. Then our GM went out and made a stupid trade by giving away all of our expendable assets for a mild upgrade in net and failed yet again to address the true issue of this team, which is a lack of top offensive talent. Who wouldn't be upset with that? And rightfully so.

 

[brianok]

Bad luck to meet LA the year they won the cup.
Then to play LA the Stanley cup champs the following year.
And once again the Stanley cup champs this year.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

What SYSTEM??? Even a 3 year old could see that The Blues weren't scoring because their players without the puck weren't moving at all, so the defenders guarding them didn't need to move, so the two outer box defenders could pressure the only shooters (point men), and could stay in the line of fire, to block shots. Why didn't Blues' coaches just tell The Blues' power play players to start moving again and varying the directions of their movements so they can't be predicted? (and also send players without the puck towards the net!)

At 4 years old I'd have mentioned that to my coach. It looks to me like The Blues' coaches and power play players were paid to sabotage The Blues' PP scoring. If you paid them, they couldn't have done a better job other than just throwing down their sticks and skating figure 8s back in their own zone!

That's exactly my point Robb. Nobody made any changes to what we were doing even though it clearly wasn't working. The best power plays feature quick puck movement and a lot of cycling. Why couldn't we do that? That one's on the coaching staff to me.

 

[BrokenFace]

I want Hitch back next season and think Army should be feeling way more pressure right now. How's Hitch supposed to win a playoff series against a team that's more talented and experienced than his? How's he supposed to win in the playoffs at all when his GM comes out of the trade deadline with a less talented team than it had going into hit (I know Stewart struggled this season, but he still likely would have contributed more than Ott. Losing Halak for Miller was a wash at best)?

The last 12 months have made me lose a gigantic amount of faith in Army. We lost 2 guys who could be top 6 wingers in Stewart and Perron and all we got in return was a downgrade between the pipes and Paajaarvi, who didn't play in the postseason. Then we proceeded to crash out of the playoffs for the same reason we did the year before, not enough scoring.

There's no coach who's going to make this team faster, better at passing, or better at shooting, and a GM who does such a terrible job managing assets is going to torpedo any coach's efforts anyway. I don't want Army gone, but he really needs to have a good summer.

 

[Blueshockey21]

I want Hitch back next season and think Army should be feeling way more pressure right now. How's Hitch supposed to win a playoff series against a team that's more talented and experienced than his? How's he supposed to win in the playoffs at all when his GM comes out of the trade deadline with a less talented team than it had going into hit (I know Stewart struggled this season, but he still likely would have contributed more than Ott. Losing Halak for Miller was a wash at best)?

The last 12 months have made me lose a gigantic amount of faith in Army. We lost 2 guys who could be top 6 wingers in Stewart and Perron and all we got in return was a downgrade between the pipes and Paajaarvi, who didn't play in the postseason. Then we proceeded to crash out of the playoffs for the same reason we did the year before, not enough scoring.

There's no coach who's going to make this team faster, better at passing, or better at shooting, and a GM who does such a terrible job managing assets is going to torpedo any coach's efforts anyway. I don't want Army gone, but he really needs to have a good summer.

GM's acquire players based on team needs and coach's wants. If you dont think getting rid of Perron and adding Ott and Morrow was one of Hitch's wants, you are crazy. I am all for bringing in Trotz, because like everyone else this team is there, but they aren't at the same time. They need a slight change up top to motivate them and bring in fresh mindset

 

[The Note]

Bad luck to meet LA the year they won the cup.
Then to play LA the Stanley cup champs the following year.
And once again the Stanley cup champs this year.

It's more than bad luck. It's incompetence at this point.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I want Hitch back next season and think Army should be feeling way more pressure right now. How's Hitch supposed to win a playoff series against a team that's more talented and experienced than his? How's he supposed to win in the playoffs at all when his GM comes out of the trade deadline with a less talented team than it had going into hit (I know Stewart struggled this season, but he still likely would have contributed more than Ott. Losing Halak for Miller was a wash at best)?

The last 12 months have made me lose a gigantic amount of faith in Army. We lost 2 guys who could be top 6 wingers in Stewart and Perron and all we got in return was a downgrade between the pipes and Paajaarvi, who didn't play in the postseason. Then we proceeded to crash out of the playoffs for the same reason we did the year before, not enough scoring.

There's no coach who's going to make this team faster, better at passing, or better at shooting, and a GM who does such a terrible job managing assets is going to torpedo any coach's efforts anyway. I don't want Army gone, but he really needs to have a good summer.

It's a system issue, not a talent issue. If you want 1st and 2nd line talent to be 3rd line and 4th line players, then it's a coaching issue. Talent is there. Just not being utilized in a trap crap system with a dump and cycle offense. We have dynamic talent and shooters, but a suppressive system that doesn't allow it to happen.