History of the ATD

[Habsfan18]

I believe I defeated @Dirt 101 in the 2019 MLD finals, not @TheDevilMadeMe. I’d have to go back and look but I don’t recall our teams facing each other in that draft. I think @Dirt 101 beat him to make it to the finals.

So yeah, that probably “hurts” my score.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I believe I defeated @Dirt 101 in the 2019 MLD finals, not @TheDevilMadeMe. I’d have to go back and look but I don’t recall our teams facing each other in that draft. I think @Dirt 101 beat him to make it to the finals.

So yeah, that probably “hurts” my score.

Yup. Oof, that's what happens when I do this all by hand and eyes

 

[Habsfan18]

Yup. Oof, that's what happens when I do this all by hand and eyes

Oh well, I enjoyed my spot at #2 for the hour and a half it was posted.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Oh well, I enjoyed my spot at #2 for the hour and a half it was posted.

It's been updated. Your back to backs are 11 and 12 hardest in MLD now

 

[ResilientBeast]

Can you give us the peak Elo for everyone, and the time when they hit it?

I'll provide these results for anyone who asks, not just in batch.

Your peak score was winning ATD 2017 (or as my sheet tracks it round 5 ATD 2017)

For a comparison: my own was making it to the "conference" finals of the last OPPF (round 3 OPPF 2020)

 

[Habsfan18]

It's been updated. Your back to backs are 11 and 12 hardest in MLD now

Well that’s certainly a big change. I think I understand the system, but it seems like a huge jump in either direction based on changing 1 opponent. It went from “second hardest run” ever to 11th or 12th hardest MLD-specific run.

This is still cool stuff though.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Well that’s certainly a big change. I think I understand the system, but it seems like a huge jump in either direction based on changing 1 opponent. It went from “second hardest run” ever to 11th or 12th hardest MLD-specific run.

This is still cool stuff though.

Yeah, once the people at the top have established themselves. The rankings become almost as much about their own performance relative to your own.

Edit: If they are participating in your draft, I think generally speaking the names I listed in the top 10 are people you're going to need to go through to win. So in essence I understand why it happens.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'll provide these results for anyone who asks, not just in batch.

Your peak score was winning ATD 2017 (or as my sheet tracks it round 5 ATD 2017)

For a comparison: my own was making it to the "conference" finals of the last OPPF (round 3 OPPF 2020)

So I lost Elo since ATD2017, despite just winning the hardest run ever in OPPF2020? Weird. Probably because I gamble too much, so I'm more likely to lose to someone with a weak Elo in some years, which hurts my score.

The game I played that used Elo was Tennis Elbow, a Tennis simulation game on PC. When I lost my profile and had to restart from scratch, people with high Elos would refuse to play against me because my score was insufficient, and they didn't want to lose a ton of Elo on one match. So I had to grind until I reach a high Elo again.

 

[ResilientBeast]

So I lost Elo since ATD2017, despite just winning the hardest run ever in OPPF2020? Weird. Probably because I gamble too much, so I'm more likely to lose to someone with a weak Elo in some years, which hurts my score.

The game I played that used Elo was Tennis Elbow, a Tennis simulation game on PC. When I lost my profile and had to restart from scratch, people with high Elos would refuse to play against me because my score was insufficient, and they didn't want to lose a ton of Elo on one match. So I had to grind until I reach a high Elo again.

For the exactness your score at your peak was

1240.879607 and you're sitting at 1229.207769

So a difference of 10ish points, that's nothing in Elo

 

[BenchBrawl]

It is a cool system despite its shortcomings. Good work.

 

[Habsfan18]

Yeah, once the people at the top have established themselves. The rankings become almost as much about their own performance relative to your own.

Edit: If they are participating in your draft, I think generally speaking the names I listed in the top 10 are people you're going to need to go through to win. So in essence I understand why it happens.

Well, Van beat TDMM and then I beat Van to win the championship. So that should give me an ultra score rating.

But seriously, this is fascinating stuff. I wish I had started participating years ago. I’m still somewhat “new”.

 

[VanIslander]

Although I have just made the ATD conference final twice (once as co-GM), I have won the MLD four times, twice as co-GM.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Well, Van beat TDMM and then I beat Van to win the championship. So that should give me an ultra score rating.

But seriously, this is fascinating stuff. I wish I had started participating years ago. I’m still somewhat “new”.

Yeah it doesn't help that since I did it all manually, if I got something wrong 5 years ago it would cascade through the full system to present day.

But all mistakes are made honestly and any corrections will result in updated tables wooooo!

And it gives me all sorts of weird data.

@seventieslord and @Hedberg have met in the playoffs 8 times (Hedberg 3 - seventieslord 5)

MLD 11 Round 2 - seventieslord
AAA 11 Finals - seventieslord
AAA 2010 Round 3 - seventieslord
MLD 2012 Round 2 - Hedberg
AAA 2014 Round 2 - seventieslord
AAA 2015 Finals - seventieslord
MLD 2016 Finals - Hedberg
MLD 2017 Finals - Hedberg

 

[BM67]

A legend returns ! When are you making your grand come back in the ATD? We would love to have you here next year.

Thank you for your explanations on the origins of the ATD. Do you remember who it was that came up with the idea?

As it is now you seem like both the father of the ATD, and the father of VsX, which is an awesome pioneering legacy.

I've felt the itch to join a few times, so one never knows.

About the only thing I remember about the poster that started the first draft I took part in is their age, and that they didn't run the draft.

I think the most work I put in was to compile most of the NHL voting record here on HFB, that most cite from HockeyReference now.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I've felt the itch to join a few times, so one never knows.

About the only thing I remember about the poster that started the first draft I took part in is their age, and that they didn't run the draft.

I think the most work I put in was to compile most of the NHL voting record here on HFB, that most cite from HockeyReference now.

I would love it. I'll send you a PM next year, just in case.

Or even better, why not join the OPPF draft in September, as a warm up? The OPPF format is awesome. It has since surpassed the MLDs as the 2nd most popular draft. I'll send you a PM for this one too.

By the way this applies to you too @Hockey Outsider. If September-December is a little less busy at work for you, maybe the OPPF could be a good medium for your come back.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I would love it. I'll send you a PM next year, just in case.

Or even better, why not join the OPPF draft in September, as a warm up? The OPPF format is awesome. It has since surpassed the MLDs as the 2nd most popular draft. I'll send you a PM for this one too.

By the way this applies to you too @Hockey Outsider. If September-December is a little less busy at work for you, maybe the OPPF could be a good medium for your come back.

The OPPF draft is a lot of fun. A lot more laid back than the main draft, but still a level of competitiveness. I'd love to get to 16 teams this year.

This year, we need to remember to make coaches attach to teams.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The OPPF draft is a lot of fun. A lot more laid back than the main draft, but still a level of competitiveness. I'd love to get to 16 teams this year.

This year, we need to remember to make coaches attach to teams.

We'll put it to a vote

My opinion is: "If it ain't broken, don't fix it", so I'd vote no, but could be interesting.

 

[BM67]

Sometimes memories aren't quite in line with reality, but my first ATD team was darn good, and might even be better than I remembered.

12 team draft, with 20 players selected per team. I drafted 14 players in the HOH top-100 list from 2019, and 19 players that made the position lists done from 2012 through 2015. I even had 6 players from the best playoff performers list.

Pick	Player	Pick in 2021	HOH Top 100 2019	D 2012	G 2013	C 2014	W 2015	P 2017
12	Bobby Hull	11	5				2	31
13	Mark Messier	15	21			6		7
36	Red Kelly	17	17	7				14
37	Ken Dryden	81	46		7			22
60	Dickie Moore	65	68				18
61	Charlie Conacher	50	55				11
84	Nels Stewart	143	92			28
85	Andy Bathgate	54	62				14
108	Earl Seibert	49	61	16
109	Lionel Conacher	133		35
132	Turk Broda	148	83		13			17
133	Alexei Kasatonov	113		39
156	Dave Keon	130	99			31
157	Vaclav Nedomansky	250				57
180	Teeder Kennedy	85	58			21		9
181	Sprague Cleghorn	38	57	15
204	Rick Middleton	199					58
205	Bill Gadsby	57	90	21
228	"Babe" Siebert	137		47
229	John Tonelli	366

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Tonelli didn't appear on the lists, and Nedomansky was on the C list but I had him at RW, and Siebert was on the D list while I had him at LW.

 

[The Macho King]

Some insane value on guys like Cleghorn and Siebert. Obviously the research over the past couple of decades has caused a significant rise in their stocks.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The only problem is with those forwards what the heck do you build for lines?

Bobby Hull - Mark Messier - Rick Middleton
Dickie Moore - Ted Kennedy - Charlie Conacher
Babe Siebert - Nels Stewart - Andy Bathgate
John Tonelli - Dave Keon - Vaclav Nedomansky

That's probably the best arrangement IMO since you can't have any pairing of Hull/Conacher/Stewart together.

Bathgate can do all the playmaking work for Stewart, that fourth line is a real mess though