Post-Game Talk: Hiller vs Kings Game 4

[Ziggy Stardust]

If the Kings lose Game 5 tomorrow…

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

So unbelievably frustrating...

The worst part is that virtually every single fan can CLEARLY see the issue yet Hiller responds to the media with "Next question!!!!!" and "What do you want me to do???"

Well, Jim - the answer is INCREDIBLY simple. We want you to actually trust and PLAY your damn players. Roll 4 lines, distribute ice time somewhat evenly, TRUST. YOUR. DEPTH. And most importantly, STAY AGGRESSIVE and keep the pressure on in the 3rd period ffs.

This series is 1000% on Hiller right now - I don't want to hear a damn word about one of the players. Yes, players have made mistakes and yes certain players can be better but when your head coach is essentially FORCING you to play 1-3 players down every night what the f*ck do you expect??? These guys are GASSED by the time the 3rd period rolls around.

Kevin Fiala is INCREDIBLY well conditioned and even he admitted to the media after game 1 that he was exhausted in the 3rd period. We KNOW Doughty has a nagging injury that was bothering him down the stretch. I can absolutely guarantee you he would look much better if he was being limited to 20 mins a night.

Last night's game was basically 4 periods long... Helenius 1:44 ice time, Mallot 2:27 ice time, Moverare 2:26 ice time.... We basically played that entire f*cking game down 3 skaters. Obviously you're not going to win many playoff games when you're doing that sh*t to yourself.

Our head coach is just shooting us in the foot big time, it's excruciating to watch. Hiller's inexperience as a head coach is really showing. Someone legitimately needs to sit Hiller down and explain this sh*t to him like he's 5 because clearly he's not thinking clearly right now.

 

[tigermask48]

It's not an argument really.

My view on a lot of things has changed in the last few years and certainly thanks to the cancer diagnosis my priorities are shifting.

I've always been a bit of a "truth fanatic" and the older I get the more I think communication is key to everything and in this particular case the issue is that frustration hinders communication. Anger blinds judgement.

People are pissed and I believe they are misdiagnosing (Some people) the key "problems" in games 3 and 4 (and arguably game 1)

Missing Tanner Jeannot is not ideal... but it shouldn't be enough to justify a full change of strategy.

To use it as an explanation ignores the natural response which I am trying to communicate which is... if the key to your success is one player be it star or role player you have constructed your team incorrectly.

Plenty of teams have survived the losses of players over the years.

I am a huge fan of the poem/thought experiment "For Want Of A Nail" but this is not of those cases where I believe it applies.

In For Want Of A Nail a kingdom is lost because of a minor supply issue but hockey teams aren't kingdoms and supply issues can be managed for months if not years in advance in fact it is a never ending resupplying process as I know most of you know because I read all your arguments about draft picks, development strategies and deployment issues.

You shouldn't find yourself for want of a nail in a first round playoff series and if you do then you've either misjudged your own happiness with your own available stock or done a bad job of stocking in the first place.

OR it's simply not a reasonable explanation

I believe the truth is the "OR"

Just feel the need to say, this is a great post. It's stuff like this where despite our past differences, I respect your opinion and thoughts on matters.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

If they blow this series where does this rank in the all time Kings playoff losses?

Gotta be top three right? #1?

 

[All The Kings Men]

If they blow this series where does this rank in the all time Kings playoff losses?

Gotta be top three right? #1?

Out of morbid curiosity... what would you say are the top 3 playoff losses in the "modern" era?

I would say it starts with the 1993 Cup Final just because of the stakes? Then maybe the 1998 loss to the Blues just because of the 4 goal 5 minute major. The 2016 San Jose series? The 2018 Vegas series?

Just curious. Somehow I don't think any of the past three series against Edmonton rise to the level of devastation but maybe other people disagree?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Out of morbid curiosity... what would you say are the top 3 playoff losses in the "modern" era?

I would say it starts with the 1993 Cup Final just because of the stakes? Then maybe the 1998 loss to the Blues just because of the 4 goal 5 minute major. The 2016 San Jose series? The 2018 Vegas series?

Just curious. Somehow I don't think any of the past three series against Edmonton rise to the level of devastation but maybe other people disagree?

I think top two are still 1993 Habs and 1998 Blues.

2025 Oilers would be #3.

I don’t think 2022-2024 were that bad because we were clear underdogs and expectations were low, especially in 2022 and 2023. To be honest, of those three, 2023 stung the worst because I do think we had a small chance that series.

Blowing this 2025 series in the manner in which we did would be a legendarily bad loss, especially after three previous years of losses to Edmonton.

 

[tigermask48]

If they blow this series where does this rank in the all time Kings playoff losses?

Gotta be top three right? #1?

3rd or 4th?
1993 is #1
1998 is #2
2013 at#3 this one was just a battle against the Hawks. I felt like I had played those games by the end.
2025 or 2024 at #4?

Edit: forgot 98

 

[Little Psycho]

If the Kings lose Game 5 tomorrow…

 

[Eagle Fang]

If they blow this series where does this rank in the all time Kings playoff losses?

Gotta be top three right? #1?

I've said this before, but one of my biggest issues and why I'm not as into the team as before is I absolutely hate the way Blake has built the team. It's a p***yfied, soft shell of the Lombardi teams I enjoyed watching. Low scoring grind games, but they were really fun to watch in the playoffs.

Blake's team is high skill, no substance.

So relative to the question, I wouldn't rank it as a fail. I expect it. They lack the balls and drive to succeed in the playoffs and this story has played out the last 3 series vs the Oilers. It's always the same. Game 7 of that first series sums the team up perfectly. They looked like they just wanted to get the game over with so they could go home.

 

[Master Yoda]

Out of morbid curiosity... what would you say are the top 3 playoff losses in the "modern" era?

I would say it starts with the 1993 Cup Final just because of the stakes? Then maybe the 1998 loss to the Blues just because of the 4 goal 5 minute major. The 2016 San Jose series? The 2018 Vegas series?

Just curious. Somehow I don't think any of the past three series against Edmonton rise to the level of devastation but maybe other people disagree?

Definitely the 93 cup final is #1.
I don't think Kings were looking like the better team in any of those other series.
This would be #2 if it happens. Hopefully the harmonica ladies bring back the mojo.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

If they blow this series where does this rank in the all time Kings playoff losses?

Gotta be top three right? #1?

Personally I'd rank this as top 3

How do you keep getting beat by the Oilers over and over, even blowing the series where they've looked the most beatable thus far

 

[shuchukfan]

I'm pissed that these last two losses have kept me from reading the main board threads and the Edmonton board. Thanks, Hiller.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They’re before my time, but some of those Pulford coached Kings were eliminated quickly, and that 105-point season was an utter failure.

Then you have the Gretzky era Kings that couldn’t beat Edmonton after 1989. Swept by the Oilers in 1990, they lost to them in 6 the year they won their only division title, and lost to them in 6 again in 1992.

Those were major disappointments, but none worse than how they lost four straight to Montreal in 1993.

This series will be up there with those disappointing 90s Kings who couldn’t get the job done when it mattered most.

 

[Herby]

Nice list. I think of Mike Richards - almost the exact same height and build.. and style of play on the puck is similar. But thats where it ends.. 90% of the time Turcotte is on the receiving end of punishment, while Richards it was the opposite. I believe scouts were projecting more muscle on top of his physique going fwd and at 24 he still looks like he's in high school or college... then you look at a guy like Boldy that is so strong and can absorbed hits and keep the puck and just imagine what Turcotte could be like if he had that strength. I think his ceiling is center version of Trevor Moore at this point.

If Turcotte could be the next Moore you take it and run. I just don’t see the offensive ability that matches what Moore has. Moore gets underrated a bit here, 46 ES and SH goals in over the last two seasons, a lot of that in a more defensive role next to Danault (who’s not exactly Joe Thornton as a distributor)

100% spot on here.

I think there's 2 major things that are going to prevent the Kings from winning this series, or if they actually get by the Oilers, will prevent them from advancing:

1. Too much reliance on the top pairings - they were all gassed last night and there's no way they can keep up with Edmonton in that scenario. Look at the box score from last night. Edmonton had Emberson on for 8:38 and Podkolzin for 9:34. The Kings had Helenius at 1:44, Moverare at 2:26, Malott at 2:27 and Lewis at 5:19. Four of the defenseman over 30 minutes and most of the top forwards in the high 20s. There is no way Hiller can keep doing this over the course of the playoffs and be successful.
2. Coaching - seeing Hiller's responses last night under pressure showed me that he does not have that 'Sutter' type of mentality that you want in the playoffs. Just seems more frazzled. I think that can reverberate around the team.

Going to give them the benefit of the doubt for now, but not taking one of those games in Edmonton is going to cost them the series IMHO.

Sutter was perfect with the media, he had the image of a dumb farm boy to a lot of people, but he knew exactly how to use the media to push his own players and get under other teams and their players skin. Remember his comments on Gibson being the best goalie in the world when the media was slurping him?

And as far as playoff disappointment. The losses to the Oilers in the early 90’s, especially in 1992 when basically everybody from the glory years was gone, many of them on the Kings that year. I remember being on vacation out in Palm Springs as a kid and watching the game with my dad (not a big Kings fan) and him saying “The Kings pissed themselves again vs Edmonton”, and it’s come full circle watching the games now with my daughter and her saying “how come they always lose to the Oilers”

1993 obviously takes the cake, the history of teams losing the first 2 at home and coming back to win a series is very low, McSorely probably did cost the Kings the cup that year, although in Gretzky’s book he said multiple players on the Kings were using illegal sticks that postseason.

2001 stung, because it would have been such an amazing story to have them KO Blake after everything that went down that whole season and then the eventual trade. The Kings were outclassed for the most part but Potvin had some 2012 Quick type moments in that series. I still think if Smolinski scores late in the 2nd of Game 7 that they likely clutch and grab and hold on to that 2-1 lead. The game was just played differently then, leads in the third period were a lot more secure than in the modern game.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Moore is 1” shorter and 10lbs heavier than Turcotte.

 

[AbsentMojo]

If Turcotte could be the next Moore you take it and run. I just don’t see the offensive ability that matches what Moore has. Moore gets underrated a bit here, 46 ES and SH goals in over the last two seasons, a lot of that in a more defensive role next to Danault (who’s not exactly Joe Thornton as a distributor)

Moore had 0g2a in all of January. When he's off, he is really off and you forget what he can do. We've seen that from him throughout his career - he has bigger gaps than even Iafalloff used to here - where he'd go PPG for 5 games then nothing for a month So Moore is basically a .6 ppg player which is decent middle 6 scoring winger. but he does not win puck battles very often and doesnt hit. His two goals this series were very nice goals so he's coming through in the playoffs this season where last season had 1g0a in 5 games. Moore is a good 3rd liner and thats where Turcotte belongs as 3C when Phil retires. Its not clear where he should be until then - he's too fragile for 4th line duties.

 

[Herby]

Moore had 0g2a in all of January. When he's off, he is really off and you forget what he can do. We've seen that from him throughout his career - he has bigger gaps than even Iafalloff used to here - where he'd go PPG for 5 games then nothing for a month So Moore is basically a .6 ppg player which is decent middle 6 scoring winger. but he does not win puck battles very often and doesnt hit. His two goals this series were very nice goals so he's coming through in the playoffs this season where last season had 1g0a in 5 games. Moore is a good 3rd liner and thats where Turcotte belongs as 3C when Phil retires. Its not clear where he should be until then - he's too fragile for 4th line duties.

I don’t believe the Kings view Turcotte as a C anymore. It seemed like the 4C spot should have been all his, and they go with a player who is even younger and less experienced.

I don’t know if it’s injury concerns, size concerns (wanting larger centers) or something else, but he has so few games as a C in the NHL for somebody his age, it just seems like the writing is on the wall with how the Kings view him.

 

[21Dog]

They’re before my time, but some of those Pulford coached Kings were eliminated quickly, and that 105-point season was an utter failure.

Toronto beat them in one of those three game preliminary rounds, 2-1. Kings won the first game.

Next two years under Pulford they beat Atlanta in the three game series, but lost to Boston in the next round, 4-3 and 4-2.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I don’t believe the Kings view Turcotte as a C anymore. It seemed like the 4C spot should have been all his, and they go with a player who is even younger and less experienced.

I don’t know if it’s injury concerns, size concerns (wanting larger centers) or something else, but he has so few games as a C in the NHL for somebody his age, it just seems like the writing is on the wall with how the Kings view him.

They must like Helenius as 4C and want to get hiim reps.. he brings all that height and physicality to go with Jeannot to make a legit 4th line. It feels like Turcotte is sort of a utlitiy infielder without a spot that is really his.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Out of morbid curiosity... what would you say are the top 3 playoff losses in the "modern" era?

I would say it starts with the 1993 Cup Final just because of the stakes? Then maybe the 1998 loss to the Blues just because of the 4 goal 5 minute major. The 2016 San Jose series? The 2018 Vegas series?

Just curious. Somehow I don't think any of the past three series against Edmonton rise to the level of devastation but maybe other people disagree?

Game 7 against Colorado. They crawled back into that series and just passed out at the finish line. Heartbreaking.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Out of morbid curiosity... what would you say are the top 3 playoff losses in the "modern" era?

I would say it starts with the 1993 Cup Final just because of the stakes? Then maybe the 1998 loss to the Blues just because of the 4 goal 5 minute major. The 2016 San Jose series? The 2018 Vegas series?

Just curious. Somehow I don't think any of the past three series against Edmonton rise to the level of devastation but maybe other people disagree?

‘16 and ‘18 aren’t in the conversation - we were never in those series. ‘98 is interesting but we were never up in that series.

Prob gotta go with ‘23 — Kings have 3-0 lead in game 4, can go up 3-1 in series if they win, then collapse with half game left and lose in OT. EDM never looks back. (something sounds familiar)

 

[BigKing]

I wasn't a Kings psycho until 1996, but 1993 is still #1 since they were so close to going up 2-0 on the road but the stick measurement happened and three OT losses in a row followed. Of course, the Kings have won two titles since then and the hockey gods have not allowed a Canadian team to win ever since because of the stick measurement, so maybe it should be removed from the list.

1998 sucked, but that is more of a "Game 3 is an all-time loss" more than the series. The Blues used to kick our shit in all the time, so losing that series wasn't a surprise.

Since 1996, I think I'd have these as the Top 3 most painful for me. Expectations generally play a big part.

#1 - 2013. Game 4 loss at home to a Keith-less Blackhawk team via Brian Bickell domination was absolutely brutal, followed up by losing in double-overtime after a miraculous goal at the end of regulation to send it to OT. This hurts the most because you actually believed in this team's chances of winning a Cup and you never know when you will get another chance. 2014 makes this seem like nothing now but, in the moment, it was such a nut punch. At least I didn't have to watch the handshakes in person.

#2 - 2016. Lost every game at home to San Jose, a team that we clowned on due to 2013 and 2014. Series over in five games and didn't feel close. Knew the team wouldn't be as good the next season and this felt like the last gasp of the Cup-era squad.

#3 - 2018. I hate the Vegas franchise and it does not excite me to see an expansion team have immediate success, especially at the expense of my favorite team. To provide them with a sweep in their first playoff appearance, capped off by I believe a McNabb series winner, was absolutely brutal. I also felt that they matched up well against Vegas and would win the series. Doughty suspension was total horseshit.

I would have the 2001 and 2002 losses above all of the recent Oiler ones. Blake, of course. Herby mentioned the Smolinski post in Game 7 of 2001 but, honestly, beating Detroit in Round 1 felt like winning the Cup already (until I found out what it actually means for your team to win the Cup). 2002 was my first year with season seats and the LAPD line made it feel like they could beat anybody on any given night. To lose in seven games again to that asshole--while he banged up the LAPD line--really sucked. To not make the playoffs again until 2010 makes this one worse in hindsight.

2023 to Edmonton is the worst one of the three Edmonton series because they were supposed to be better than 2022, when they went to seven games. To be up 2-1 in the series and up 3-0 after the 1st period of Game 4--at home--only to lose in OT after they tied it up with 3 minutes remaining was real rough. They were also up 2-1 in the series without Fiala, so the thought was they would be even better but they managed to promptly lose three straight.

I don't have the same expectations for this team as I may have had for the 2016 and '18 teams, but this series would probably vault to #2 on the list due to it being the 4th year in a row and how they lost Games 3 and 4.

 

[All The Kings Men]

so maybe it should be removed from the list.

SIR!

That is NOT how that works!