Post-Game Talk: Hiller vs Kings Game 4

[Axl Rhoadz]

Its Todd all over again. But Hiller has more to work with than he ever did.

Interesting, that's not what you said about Hiller last week - I guess we judge our head coach on a game by game basis.

Did you have the Kings in 4?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

As opposed to Trevor Lewis who they pulled out of a body bag to play this year?

I'm not a Lewis fan at this point in time - but I'm not blaming him either. The real issue here has been that Jeannot has been unavailable for the series, that really f***ed up the whole 4th line dynamic.

 

[Schmooley]

Interesting, that's not what you said about Hiller last week - I guess we judge our head coach on a game by game basis.

Did you have the Kings in 4?

Yea Hiller has done lots of good things. These last two games he did a really poor job. Not sure if you are serious but yes you judge coaches by how they perform in the big games and he had a rough couple days.
I didnt have any number of games in mind for the series just that the Kings are the better team this year and will win.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Caught the postgame comments. Holy cow, Hiller got extremely triggered by Bernstein’s question. It was such a simple question and one could go their coachspeak toolbag and say “we’ll have to watch the tape and make some tweaks” but no, Hiller took it extremely personally and kept referring back to Bernstein on the next question from somebody else.

Never seen a coach of the Kings lose it like that and never seen a coach indirectly blame Byfield but then say he played great all game. This guy doesn’t have a clue what’s going on.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I'm not a Lewis fan at this point in time - but I'm not blaming him either. The real issue here has been that Jeannot has been unavailable for the series, that really f***ed up the whole 4th line dynamic.

If the success of your team is predicated on the presence of a single 4th liner then your team is fundamentally flawed.

I understand what I think you think you're saying but I also think you're wrong.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If the success of your team is predicated on the presence of a single 4th liner then your team is fundamentally flawed.

I understand what I think you think you're saying but I also think you're wrong.

It's not about the mere presence of a 4th liner

It's about the ripple effects thru the lineup of not trusting the 4th line and/or any kids in ANY roles at this point.

Pre deadline, this was what we saw nightly.

Post deadline, the team was rolling because they were able to roll their deep lines and kids even on defense.

Games 1+2 were the post deadline. games 3+4 were a mashup of pre-deadline and every playoff game we've played before.

So yeah, when I reference the record with Lewis in the lineup--it's a half-joke but with a HEAPING BOULDER of truth because of what happens to the rest of the team with him in. And that's just the literal facts--the superstitious side of me says even if it's UNreasonable if the mere presence of something easily removable keeps causing horrible play and losses, remove it.

 

[Kudelski37]

A work friend told me the series was all but over before game 3. He apologized for jinxing the Kings when he showed up for work this morning. Hopefully, this solves the problem. If not, we need to find the Hiller voodoo doll and remove the pins holding the head in the buttocks region.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

If the success of your team is predicated on the presence of a single 4th liner then your team is fundamentally flawed.

I understand what I think you think you're saying but I also think you're wrong.

I think what I am saying (and I guess you will tell me I'm wrong) is that if Jeannot was in the lineup, we would be seeing the 4th line that we were all growing to adore and love down the stretch, and that would equate to Turcotte seeing more ice time. Jeannot was the veteran presence that line needed, and now they are stuck with basically 3 rookies forming a 4th line. Tell me how many playoff teams have lines consisting of 3 rookies.

 

[Sol]

It's not about the mere presence of a 4th liner

It's about the ripple effects thru the lineup of not trusting the 4th line and/or any kids in ANY roles at this point.

Pre deadline, this was what we saw nightly.

Post deadline, the team was rolling because they were able to roll their deep lines and kids even on defense.

Games 1+2 were the post deadline. games 3+4 were a mashup of pre-deadline and every playoff game we've played before.

So yeah, when I reference the record with Lewis in the lineup--it's a half-joke but with a HEAPING BOULDER of truth because of what happens to the rest of the team with him in. And that's just the literal facts--the superstitious side of me says even if it's UNreasonable if the mere presence of something easily removable keeps causing horrible play and losses, remove it.

There’s no trust. That’s the problem, yeah I get not wanting to get them out there against McDavid however if your team is not used to playing this way, and you’re killing your players doing this then yeah you’re making them lose one way or another.

It’s just a strategy that simply doesn’t work. Look at the defenseman minutes too. Only playing 4 dmen essentially.


Is the goal to win the first two periods or the game? It doesn’t make sense.

 

[BaileyFan]

Is the goal to win the first two periods or the game? It doesn’t make sense.

Their goal is to make it to the playoffs and “do some damage” aka maybe we’ll win a round, maybe we won’t. If they don’t then aw shucks, it’s the playoffs, anything can happen etc. A week from today Rob, Luc, and Axl will be bragging about what a great season we just witnessed because they took McDavid to 6 games.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

A penalty isn’t a penalty in the playoffs it’s something you leverage to get the game to mean something in the last 5 minutes and or if your lucky overtime. How the f*** are you supposed to know what will be called much less when it will be called? This shit is rigged boys to take your money!

 

[All The Kings Men]

I think what I am saying (and I guess you will tell me I'm wrong) is that if Jeannot was in the lineup, we would be seeing the 4th line that we were all growing to adore and love down the stretch, and that would equate to Turcotte seeing more ice time. Jeannot was the veteran presence that line needed, and now they are stuck with basically 3 rookies forming a 4th line. Tell me how many playoff teams have lines consisting of 3 rookies.

I get it... my point is if you've constructed a roster that you don't trust to play in that manner unless you've got that one guy then you've constructed your roster in a manner that's too fragile.

Depth means you can withstand the loss of key star players and support players. Depth doesn't mean one 4th liner gets injured and it's your achilles heel.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

After seeing Hiller's latest presser...

Yeah, congrats Edmonton on a 4th straight playoff dicking of us.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I get it... my point is if you've constructed a roster that you don't trust to play in that manner unless you've got that one guy then you've constructed your roster in a manner that's too fragile.

Depth means you can withstand the loss of key star players and support players. Depth doesn't mean one 4th liner gets injured and it's your achilles heel.

I may be missing a quoted post

I think the difference betweenw hat you're saying and what I'm saying is you're saying it's aroster issue--I'm saying it's a deployment issue.

There should be no reason to not trust Malott-Turcotte-Helenius right now. None. Tha'ts not a roster issue. That's usage. And that's before we get to MIA Akil Thomas. Right back where we were in the last few years--where they're worried the 'kids' (near prime now!) are too green so they can't play which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I may be missing a quoted post

I think the difference betweenw hat you're saying and what I'm saying is you're saying it's aroster issue--I'm saying it's a deployment issue.

There should be no reason to not trust Malott-Turcotte-Helenius right now. None. Tha'ts not a roster issue. That's usage. And that's before we get to MIA Akil Thomas. Right back where we were in the last few years--where they're worried the 'kids' (near prime now!) are too green so they can't play which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You're missing my back and forth with Axl lol

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You're missing my back and forth with Axl lol

 

[Lt Dan]

@Sol A++ thread title would read again. You won the internet last night

View attachment 1025032

you win the internet today RJ

 

[Lt Dan]

You're missing my back and forth with Axl lol

You'd be better off arguing with a dumpster. This homeless guy at my work does it. He is the modern day Socrates

 

[All The Kings Men]

You'd be better off arguing with a dumpster. This homeless guy at my work does it. He is the modern day Socrates

It's not an argument really.

My view on a lot of things has changed in the last few years and certainly thanks to the cancer diagnosis my priorities are shifting.

I've always been a bit of a "truth fanatic" and the older I get the more I think communication is key to everything and in this particular case the issue is that frustration hinders communication. Anger blinds judgement.

People are pissed and I believe they are misdiagnosing (Some people) the key "problems" in games 3 and 4 (and arguably game 1)

Missing Tanner Jeannot is not ideal... but it shouldn't be enough to justify a full change of strategy.

To use it as an explanation ignores the natural response which I am trying to communicate which is... if the key to your success is one player be it star or role player you have constructed your team incorrectly.

Plenty of teams have survived the losses of players over the years.

I am a huge fan of the poem/thought experiment "For Want Of A Nail" but this is not of those cases where I believe it applies.

In For Want Of A Nail a kingdom is lost because of a minor supply issue but hockey teams aren't kingdoms and supply issues can be managed for months if not years in advance in fact it is a never ending resupplying process as I know most of you know because I read all your arguments about draft picks, development strategies and deployment issues.

You shouldn't find yourself for want of a nail in a first round playoff series and if you do then you've either misjudged your own happiness with your own available stock or done a bad job of stocking in the first place.

OR it's simply not a reasonable explanation

I believe the truth is the "OR"

 

[SettlementRichie10]

And to think this is all against a banged up Edmonton team who lost a lot of depth last offseason.

The Kings are nowhere near legitimate contention.

 

[All The Kings Men]

And to think this is all against a banged up Edmonton team who lost a lot of depth last offseason.

The Kings are nowhere near legitimate contention.

The Kings team that played in the first period might be.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The Kings team that played in the first period might be.

Unfortunately in professional hockey a team needs to play three whole periods to win.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And to think this is all against a banged up Edmonton team who lost a lot of depth last offseason.

The Kings are nowhere near legitimate contention.

This Kings team is broken. They still heavily depend on the same players who have failed to do anything against Edmonton’s top two stars. For four years, it’s the same names who have walked all over the Kings and have freewill inside their zone.

The Oilers have shown that they have nothing to worry about, at all. I picked the Kings in 6, but it’s looking more like it’ll be the other way around.

I have absolutely zero confidence in Jim Hiller’s coaching.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Unfortunately in professional hockey a team needs to play three whole periods to win.

I agree. Unfortunatley The Kings allowed the Oilers to play 2 and half full periods of hockey against them (including OT) and that was enough to win the game.

But this game wasn't a third period collapse. It was a second half collapse and that started in the second period.

I'm not defending them I'm saying people aren't being critical ENOUGH.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I agree. Unfortunatley The Kings allowed the Oilers to play 2 and half full periods of hockey against them (including OT) and that was enough to win the game.

But this game wasn't a third period collapse. It was a second half collapse and that started in the second period.

I'm not defending them I'm saying people aren't being critical ENOUGH.

I’d say it’s a four year problem that they have yet to solve.