Line Combos: HFPens Decides 24-25 Version - Starting Goalie

[Honour Over Glory]

Ned really isn't that good, he was ass down the stretch and benefit heavily from the fact that the Penguins were scoring at a rate that was unsustainable for even the best teams in that 15 game span, also bleeding goals like defense was a foreign concept.

Maybe, just maybe, if the f***ing twat of a coach doesn't burn out his goalie by over playing the shit out of them early in the season for long stretches or fixes the absolutely putrid defensive system and overall team defense, the goalies might actually survive.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ned really isn't that good, he was ass down the stretch and benefit heavily from the fact that the Penguins were scoring at a rate that was unsustainable for even the best teams in that 15 game span, also bleeding goals like defense was a foreign concept.

Maybe, just maybe, if the f***ing twat of a coach doesn't burn out his goalie by over playing the shit out of them early in the season for long stretches or fixes the absolutely putrid defensive system and overall team defense, the goalies might actually survive.

If Ned isn't good, Jarry is a trash bag.

 

[BusinessGoose]

If Ned isn't good, Jarry is a trash bag.

Yes

But here we are

I think the point of not using either one too much and that our team D leaves em out to dry, is valid too

Goal is an inarguable weak spot on the team, as of today

There is a reason Ned was a loser cast-off that we signed for cheap.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Ned isn't good, Jarry is a trash bag.

 

[Gurglesons]

Can't believe Mike Sullivan forced him to do this.

Dan Bylsma forced MAF to suck too eh?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Can't believe Mike Sullivan forced him to do this.

Dan Bylsma forced MAF to suck too eh?

You're forcing me to react to your stupidity and I am not going to fall for it.

 

[BusinessGoose]

AHL save us

 

[Randy Butternubs]

What a terrible signing Jarry was and still is.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

What a terrible signing Jarry was and still is.

For me it was the length and the NMC. They're pretty much married to him now and any trade value is going to be reduced because of those very factors.

They could have given him a 2 year deal at the same money and I would have been fine with it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Whoever came up with the hockey cliche that "you build from the net out" should be shot.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Whoever came up with the hockey cliche that "you build from the net out" should be shot.

I'd go 1D personally. It's the role with the most control over results and is far less hit and miss than goalies.
Pickering was sorta the right idea. The Pens were just drafting too late that year to get someone better.

 

[SomeDude]

Looking back, the timing of contacts vs market was infuriating.

Shift that one year forward and we likely don't have Jarry on the roster. Or if we don't, maybe at something a little more tolerable.

As I've said in the past, I have no idea how many BAD goalie contracts have to be handed out before GMs realize that it's not smart business.

The idea that the Pens “had” to sign Jarry from the start was nonsensical. You never have to handcuff yourself to a mediocre player for multiple years. That is a choice made by dumb organizations.

A competent GM would have let Jarry walk and found a stop gap placeholder for a season then re-evaluated.

It’s also awesome Dubas deflected from the start saying he signed the contract based on the recommendation of others since he was new to the organization. Such an obvious avoidance of responsibility that told me all I need to know about Kyle from the start. You don’t hand out a contract like that as GM unless you think it’s the right move, or you are bad at your job.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'd go 1D personally. It's the role with the most control over results and is far less hit and miss than goalies.
Pickering was sorta the right idea. The Pens were just drafting too late that year to get someone better.

I'd go 1Ca and 1Cb but I might have some bias.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The idea that the Pens “had” to sign Jarry from the start was nonsensical. You never have to handcuff yourself to a mediocre player for multiple years. That is a choice made by dumb organizations.

A competent GM would have let Jarry walk and found a stop gap placeholder for a season then re-evaluated.

It’s also awesome Dubas deflected from the start saying he signed the contract based on the recommendation of others since he was new to the organization. Such an obvious avoidance of responsibility that told me all I need to know about Kyle from the start. You don’t hand out a contract like that as GM unless you think it’s the right move, or you are bad at your job.

Is it that dire of a problem? What's the required sweetener to off-load him?
His numbers were league average among starters last year, yet the board's talking like he played like Korpisalo or something.

I mean, I get it. He hasn't won a playoff series and people are frustrated. But let's not lose track of reality here.
The goaltending buyer's market's been dogshit the last 2 years. He's not gonna be that hard to move, especially if he improves on last year. There's 32 teams and many are struggling between the pipes.
Plus the cap's rising fast.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Is it that dire of a problem? What's the required sweetener to off-load him?
His numbers were league average among starters last year, yet the board's talking like he played like Korpisalo or something.

I mean, I get it. He hasn't won a playoff series and people are frustrated. But let's not lose track of reality here.
The goaltending buyer's market's been dogshit the last 2 years. He's not gonna be that hard to move, especially if he improves on last year. There's 32 teams and many are struggling between the pipes.
Plus the cap's rising fast.

I think it goes back to that league average thing.

What team is going to want Jarry so bad they go out and get him?

He's so mediocre, they'll just keep their own mediocre grenades.

We're not gonna have any team taking a flyer on him that he'll step up in any meaningful way to risk a trade. Unless they're offloading an even worse contract to us.

That's why i feel Jarry has little to no trade value. If you're worse than us, with cap space to spend, you can do better than jarry. If you're better than us, then why the hell would you want this perennial loser?

I'm not trying to kick his dog or anything, and he has been to all star games, and had decent numbers at times... But... He really has never accomplished much of any high stakes situation.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Whoever came up with the hockey cliche that "you build from the net out" should be shot.

Well back in the day, that used to be very true. It used to be an extremely goalie dependent league bc there were so few good ones and if you had a good one, it gave you a big leg up. It was a true bell curve in terms of talent.

Now that curve has shifted where any goalie in any particular season can give you a wide performance range from unbeatable to swiss cheese.
Hence, this is why you don't commit big dollars/term, because of the wide variation in results.

But I'm sure Dubas knows that- he wears glasses after all.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think it goes back to that league average thing.

What team is going to want Jarry so bad they go out and get him?

He's so mediocre, they'll just keep their own mediocre grenades.

We're not gonna have any team taking a flyer on him that he'll step up in any meaningful way to risk a trade. Unless they're offloading an even worse contract to us.

That's why i feel Jarry has little to no trade value. If you're worse than us, with cap space to spend, you can do better than jarry. If you're better than us, then why the hell would you want this perennial loser?

It's not that easy to land league average starting goalies.
Did Philly get one? No. They're about to roll it back with Errson and Fedotov. That problem last year derailed their playoff entry.
Did Columbus? Vancouver's about to roll the dice with a majorly injury plagued Demko and Silovs. They may need a solution at the deadline, and we're well connected with Vancouver's management.
What if Woll goes down for the umpteenth time for Toronto? They gonna go all-in on Stolarz during a critical year for their core?

Over the last 2 summers, name as many UFA goalies as you can that were/are considered better than Jarry. The closest in summer 2023 was Korpisalo, and he was significantly worse than Jarry last year.
I guess there was technically Adin Hill, but he re-signed with Vegas on July 1 and was never going anywhere.
This summer it was Talbot, who is 37 y/o and can fall to ribbons at any time.

Some of those UFAs will avoid certain clubs, or just return. Of the few on the trade block that were better than Jarry, they sometimes had some measure of trade protection as well.
Hellebuyck was heavily rumored to be leaving. He stayed. Same thing with Rinne and he stayed too. They shipped out Askarov instead.

List of goalies that were traded since April: Askarov, Thompson, Ullmark, Korpisalo, Kuemper, Markstrom.
Askarov is a good prospect but who knows what he does in the NHL this year? Kuemper was .890 last year. Probably on the decline.
Markstrom was about Jarry's level last year and is 34. He was trash in 2022-23. Huge cap hit. That's a dice roll for New Jersey.
Korpi I mentioned.
So that leaves 2 goalies who were traded since the reg season ended who are likely to outperform Jarry in 2024-25. That's it.

It's easy to say that Jarry sucks and that everyone will pass on him, but I'm not convinced they will. Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

But I'm sure Dubas knows that- he wears glasses after all.

Outdated info.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

View attachment 906765
View attachment 906766

Outdated info.

Well I stand corrected. Dubas is a flat out idiot just like me then

 

[SomeDude]

Is it that dire of a problem? What's the required sweetener to off-load him?
His numbers were league average among starters last year, yet the board's talking like he played like Korpisalo or something.

I mean, I get it. He hasn't won a playoff series and people are frustrated. But let's not lose track of reality here.
The goaltending buyer's market's been dogshit the last 2 years. He's not gonna be that hard to move, especially if he improves on last year. There's 32 teams and many are struggling between the pipes.
Plus the cap's rising fast.

It was an unforced error when clearly Dubas came in with the expectation he could fix the roster and make it at least a playoff team.

With the cap space from simply not keeping Jarry, we wouldn’t have had to make as many cap moves to fit EK and possibly paid less for him and also not used up retention slots that would come in handy now that we are sellers.

Then he went and really screwed the pooch by making Ryan Graves rich but this is a goalie thread, not grossly overcompensated bottom pair d-men thread.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The amount of unforced errors this team has committed since the second of the back to back Cups is f***ing astonishing.

 

[BusinessGoose]

The amount of unforced errors this team has committed since the second of the back to back Cups is f***ing astonishing.

The amount of failure is approaching my life

This is an astonishing thing to achieve when you have many professionals managing it and not one averagely stupid brain

 

[Randy Butternubs]

The amount of failure is approaching my life

This is an astonishing thing to achieve when you have many professionals managing it and not one averagely stupid brain

All it takes is one idiot with top authority to override others and make a bad decision.

 

[SomeDude]

The amount of unforced errors this team has committed since the second of the back to back Cups is f***ing astonishing.

Dubas moves so far are not impressive.

Ned and Eller are the only ones that has been positive IMO and they are very much depth moves. Every major decision he has made so far has not worked out well.

EK you can say neutral since we didn’t give up a whole lot but the team still sucked and the PP was embarrassing after adding him.
Graves has been horrible.
Jarry is who we knew he is but now he’s signed long term.
Sitting on his hands watching this team, and more baffling, the coaching staff steer a season right into the dumpster was just a work of art.
Does anyone other than Mike Sullivan actually think hiring his BFF to the coaching staff is going to work out well?

The Jake and Yager trades are still TBD.

It’s a small sample size but not exactly off to an encouraging start. I’m pretty sure by this time frame our beloved local writers were already sharpening the guillotine for Hextall.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Dubas moves so far are not impressive.

Ned and Eller are the only ones that has been positive IMO and they are very much depth moves. Every major decision he has made so far has not worked out well.

EK you can say neutral since we didn’t give up a whole lot but the team still sucked and the PP was embarrassing after adding him.
Graves has been horrible.
Jarry is who we knew he is but now he’s signed long term.
Sitting on his hands watching this team, and more baffling, the coaching staff steer a season right into the dumpster was just a work of art.
Does anyone other than Mike Sullivan actually think hiring his BFF to the coaching staff is going to work out well?

The Jake and Yager trades are still TBD.

It’s a small sample size but not exactly off to an encouraging start. I’m pretty sure by this time frame our beloved local writers were already sharpening the guillotine for Hextall.

Yeah, I mean, the whole time. JR's absurd about-face in targeting losers like Reaves, Gudbranson, Jack Johnson, etc. Then you had whatever the f*** Hextall was doing targeting losers like Petry, McGinn, Granlund, etc. Now we've got this lame ass Dubas stuff where he's saying he's gonna give the team a chance as long as Sid's here while losing Jake (who didn't want to re-sign cuz the team's dead in the water), etc.