HFNYR Top Rangers of All Time
- Thread starter Crease
- Start date
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Great list Crease. 
What I find interesting is that Brian Leetch is the only American to make it on either lists. Out of our top 20 players essentially on a U.S. based team there is one player who is an American. Now I guess things would change had we done goaltenders and such but still.
Just goes to show that for a long time the premier talent really was all based out of Canada.
What I find interesting is that Brian Leetch is the only American to make it on either lists. Out of our top 20 players essentially on a U.S. based team there is one player who is an American. Now I guess things would change had we done goaltenders and such but still.
Just goes to show that for a long time the premier talent really was all based out of Canada.
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Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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Thanks CMM. I can't take all the credit though, this was a group effort.
You bring up an interesting point. Before the 1980s there really only a handful of Americans in the NHL. Some would argue that the "Miracle on Ice" changed the landscape, encouraging young Americans to pick up the game in numbers large enough to to make a dent at the NHL level.
Leetch is probably the third best American born-and-trained player of all-time, behind Chris Chelios and Frank Brimsek. When we eventually get to the Goalies project, Vanbiesbrouck and Richter will probably be in the converstation. Vanbiesbrouck, by the way, is one of very few American goaltenders to win the Vezina.
Ultimately it's not surprising that there is only one American and no Europeans on this list. The Rangers most fruitful years were pre-WWII, the 1970s and early 1990s. The NHL wasn't fully integrated until the late 80s and early 90s.
You bring up an interesting point. Before the 1980s there really only a handful of Americans in the NHL. Some would argue that the "Miracle on Ice" changed the landscape, encouraging young Americans to pick up the game in numbers large enough to to make a dent at the NHL level.
Leetch is probably the third best American born-and-trained player of all-time, behind Chris Chelios and Frank Brimsek. When we eventually get to the Goalies project, Vanbiesbrouck and Richter will probably be in the converstation. Vanbiesbrouck, by the way, is one of very few American goaltenders to win the Vezina.
Ultimately it's not surprising that there is only one American and no Europeans on this list. The Rangers most fruitful years were pre-WWII, the 1970s and early 1990s. The NHL wasn't fully integrated until the late 80s and early 90s.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Kris Chreider
Pass Off The Pads
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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The Rangers are historically deep at Defense. At least relative to other positions. Seibert has the shortest tenure amongst defensemen who made the final list, at 4.5 seasons. Zubov played 3. Both have Cups. Seibert has a 1st and 2nd AST with the Rangers. Zubov none. Zubov was great, and I wish the Rangers held on to him, but I don't think he did enough with the franchise to make the list. Other participants agreed.
For reference, Zubov had an average rank of about 14 amongst participants who had him in their top 20.
Kane One
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NickyFotiu
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I wish the voting was for the last 30-40 years. So hard for me to see a list of guys that most posters never saw play.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Yeah, but I trust those who participated want to acknowledge you deserve lion's share of the credit for this
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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Cases for #1 can be made for Boucher, Messier and (to a lesser extent IMO) Ratelle. The participants (myself included) are obviously not the definitive voices on the matter, so I'd love to hear your argument for Messier over Boucher.
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A number of us spent like a month compiling the center list and disagreed. I personally think the gap between Boucher and Messier is rather large. I'll explain why I feel this way...
Cups with NYR: Boucher 2, Mess 1
Top 10 gls finishes: Boucher 2, Mess 1
Top 10 asst finishes: Boucher 9, Mess 2
Top 10 pts finishes: Boucher 8, Mess 2
Top 10 playoff gls finishes: Boucher 5, Mess 1
Top 10 playoff asst finishes: Boucher 5, Mess 1
Top 10 playoff pts finishes: Boucher 5, Mess 1
Era adjusted pts with NYR: Boucher 273-864-1137, Mess 256-454-710
Era adjusted pts/season with NYR: Boucher 23-72-95, Mess 26-45-71
1st team all star: Boucher 3, Mess 1
2nd team all star: Boucher 1, Mess 0
Hardware: Boucher - Smythe*, Lady Byng 7 times**, Mess - Hart
Messier's best era adjusted season: 45 gls, 50 asst, 95 pts
Boucher's best era adjusted season: 42 gls, 118 asst, 160 pts
* - awarded retroactively
** - Boucher won the Byng so many times they gave him the original trophy and created a new one
There's no shame in being #2 on a list of all-time greats for a franchise that has been around for 87 years. That said, it wasn't unanimous to put Boucher at #1...I didn't.
I disagree with Cake's opinion and his basing it, at least in part, on "Top 10" finishes of Boucher v. Messier in individual stat categories because he's comparing apples to oranges. Being Top 10 in scoring when there were only about 36 forwards in the league isn't the same as being Top 10 when there were over 310 forwards. If you're going to compare apples to apples, then a Top 10 finish for Boucher is akin to a Top 85 finish for Messier.
I appreciate the 2 Cups for Boucher but I don't think having 2 Cups v. having 1 Cup is that much of an advantage for Boucher, since the playoffs were so much shorter in Boucher's day. The way the playoffs were set up back then, Boucher wound up playing 17 games total in his Stanley Cup runs. Messier's Rangers played 23 in their one Cup run and even if those Rangers had swept every series, they would have had to play a minimum of 16 games.
In any event, they were two great Rangers and I have no qualms with the way the list played out even if it did differ from my personal ranking.
Now, if we continue to argue the merits of the players we already ranked, that might signal that it's time to tackle another position.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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Chief, when I read CoD's post my Chief alarms were going off. 
At your request we did look at percentile finishes, which technically adjusts for league-size. When looking at it in this manner Boucher, Messier, and Ratelle were VERY similar.
Player | 90+ | 95+ | 98+
Messier | 7 | 6 | 4
Ratelle | 8 | 7 | 3
Boucher | 8 | 6 | 2
I do say "technically" though because I'm not so sure that league size impacts who the 10 best players are or how good they were. In other words, I'm not sure a smaller league makes it easier for someone to displace one of the 10 best players in the league in a statistical category. The only years where I look at Top 10 finishes with some skepticism are during WWII, and from the 60s-70s when it was evident that some of the best players in the world were not playing in the NHL (Kharlamov, Makarov, etc).
At your request we did look at percentile finishes, which technically adjusts for league-size. When looking at it in this manner Boucher, Messier, and Ratelle were VERY similar.
Messier | 7 | 6 | 4
Ratelle | 8 | 7 | 3
Boucher | 8 | 6 | 2
I do say "technically" though because I'm not so sure that league size impacts who the 10 best players are or how good they were. In other words, I'm not sure a smaller league makes it easier for someone to displace one of the 10 best players in the league in a statistical category. The only years where I look at Top 10 finishes with some skepticism are during WWII, and from the 60s-70s when it was evident that some of the best players in the world were not playing in the NHL (Kharlamov, Makarov, etc).
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HoosierDaddy
Registered User
I can't remember, but who was the Dman who lead the team in regular season scoring in the 93-94 SC season? Has any other NYR Dman lead the team in scoring, Leetch?
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