HFAvs Ranks: The 50 Greatest Avalanche Players - #2

[dahrougem2]

McDavid isn't the reason MacK doesn't have a Hart... Hall is. MacK has finished 2nd in the voting twice, neither time he lost to McDavid.

To me, Makar has more hardware to his name already, just as much playoff success, never had a legit down year, and is debatably the better player over the last 3 seasons.

He was a finalist in 21 when McDavid won, who knows how voting would have went for those that picked McDavid.

 

[redacted]

He was a finalist in 21 when McDavid won, who knows how voting would have went for those that picked McDavid.

That was the year McDavid was unanimous. But we have an idea. He was far behind Matthews in the voting for 2nd. 69 2nd place votes for Matthews to 6 for MacKinnon. Crosby had more 2nd place votes at 11 than MacK did. Marchand had 6 too. Without McDavid... pretty easy to see Matthews would have grabbed it.

 

[Foppa2118]

My heart says Forsberg. My head says you can't make the best goalie of all time the third best Avalanche.

 

[The Abusement Park]

He was a finalist in 21 when McDavid won, who knows how voting would have went for those that picked McDavid.

I mean he still finished 3rd that year behind Matthews. Sure Mack’s had more longevity so far but Makars peak
is higher and was the most integral part of the cup run. Unless we think Makar randomly becomes an average top pairing guy for the rest of his career.

 

[redacted]

Now as we look longer term, I think an issue that faces both MacK and Makar is their injuries. Those keep up and I don't see how they end up that much different than Forsberg. Elite players with injury issues that kept them from piling more hardware. They might have to win another Cup too.

Which on this poll... maybe I'm wrong in that regard and people don't care as much. Roy was pretty healthy here and arguably a bigger part of the Cup runs than Foppa. Yet Forsberg got the majors awards and was a part of both Cups.

 

[Peter Peckerwood]

First team that comes to mind when I think of Forsberg is the Predators easily.

 

[bromando]

I like this idea. Thanks for running it! Had to go Roy but not upset about Forsberg taking it. Roy being arguably the best ever goalie puts him there for me. Wish he'd had a better end here as a coach because his Avs legacy took a hit somewhat.

Add Rantanen to the poll...

And to the Mackinnon/Makar debate... In my mind, Mack has a Hart. He's injured for 8 games in 17-18 and still almost hits 100 points. Taylor Hall was pretty outrageous given he was 40 points up on the next guy but Mack would have been neck and neck for the Art Ross too that year if he was healthy. Was the heart of the team that year and really created the identity of the Avs team that would eventually win the cup. Makar easily has potential to move ahead of Mack but at this point, Mack has the longer more established resume and basically just as much top dawg status over more years. If the world blew up today and I was floating in space having final second thoughts on Avalanche history, Mack is the greater player right now.

 

[dahrougem2]

That was the year McDavid was unanimous. But we have an idea. He was far behind Matthews in the voting for 2nd. 69 2nd place votes for Matthews to 6 for MacKinnon. Crosby had more 2nd place votes at 11 than MacK did. Marchand had 6 too. Without McDavid... pretty easy to see Matthews would have grabbed it.

Regardless, IMO MacKinnon has 5 seasons performing as a top-5 player in the NHL. Makar to date has 4. Yes Makar has the Norris and Conn Smythe but the Norris isn't much of a seperator to me because of different positions.

Like I said, Makar probably passes him but as of now, MacKinnon has had the better career.

 

[UncleRisto]

How are we already wrong?

 

[TruePowerSlave]

My heart says Forsberg. My head says you can't make the best goalie of all time the third best Avalanche.

Hasek is the goalie GOAT. His Buffalo run is as good as it gets for the position and nobody has come even close since.

 

[Foppa2118]

Hasek is the goalie GOAT. His Buffalo run is as good as it gets for the position and nobody has come even close since.

You must leave your Avalanche membership at the door now my friend.

Jokes aside, Roy's playoff resume with four Cups on both good and bad teams to one for Hasek on a stacked team, and the only player in history with three Conn Smythe's, plus his playoff wins obliterating everyone else puts him at the top for me.

Playoff Wins

Roy - 151
Brodeur - 113
Hasek - 65

Stanley Cups

Roy - 4
Brodeur - 3
Hasek - 1

Conn Smythes

Roy - 3
Brodeuer - 0
Hasek - 0

 

[TruePowerSlave]

You must leave your Avalanche membership at the door now my friend.

Jokes aside, Roy's playoff resume with four Cups on both good and bad teams to one for Hasek on a stacked team, and the only player in history with three Conn Smythe's, plus his playoff wins obliterating everyone else puts him at the top for me.

Playoff Wins

Roy - 151
Brodeur - 113
Hasek - 65

Stanley Cups

Roy - 4
Brodeur - 3
Hasek - 1

Conn Smythes

Roy - 3
Brodeuer - 0
Hasek - 0

Fair enough. I would argue cups are not possible for players on mediocre teams, no matter how dominant they are.

Regular season performance shouldn't be a debate between the two.

 

[GeoRox89]

Hasek is the goalie GOAT. His Buffalo run is as good as it gets for the position and nobody has come even close since.

Weird semantics but Hasek is the best goalie ever. If you need to stick a goalie behind a team to win a regular season game, you pick Hasek

Roy is the GOAT. The difference in playoff goaltending legacy is massive. You want to win a playoff game, you pick Roy. Theoretically, Hasek might be a small amount better but Roy is way more proven. Also says something that he is the only player ever to win 3 Conn Smythes

 

[S E P H]

Weird semantics but Hasek is the best goalie ever. If you need to stick a goalie behind a team to win a regular season game, you pick Hasek

Roy is the GOAT. The difference in playoff goaltending legacy is massive. You want to win a playoff game, you pick Roy. Theoretically, Hasek might be a small amount better but Roy is way more proven. Also says something that he is the only player ever to win 3 Conn Smythes

For me personally, Hasek was the best goaler I ever watched that had a semi-long career, Roy/Brodeur were the best long-term career goalers I've seen (Roy could have probably played another 3-5 years of top-quality hockey and was a playoff beast), and Giguere likely had the best single-season I have ever seen. I would take Hasek over anybody, but his lack of playing time and coming to NA as late as he did definitely impacts his career a bit negatively.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Weird semantics but Hasek is the best goalie ever. If you need to stick a goalie behind a team to win a regular season game, you pick Hasek

Roy is the GOAT. The difference in playoff goaltending legacy is massive. You want to win a playoff game, you pick Roy. Theoretically, Hasek might be a small amount better but Roy is way more proven. Also says something that he is the only player ever to win 3 Conn Smythes

It’d be interesting to see prime Hasek on good teams. He carried those Buffalo teams like no other and was putting up video game numbers in the playoffs and RS. Roy’s clutch gene was next level though as well. Idk those 2 are the clear GOATs for me though so I can understand someone picking either guy imo.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Now as we look longer term, I think an issue that faces both MacK and Makar is their injuries. Those keep up and I don't see how they end up that much different than Forsberg. Elite players with injury issues that kept them from piling more hardware. They might have to win another Cup too.

Which on this poll... maybe I'm wrong in that regard and people don't care as much. Roy was pretty healthy here and arguably a bigger part of the Cup runs than Foppa. Yet Forsberg got the majors awards and was a part of both Cups.

I chose Foppa for emotional reasons, but yeah, with facts. It's Sakic, Roy, and the rest is subjective.

Makar may end up top two if he wins another cup. Those two are very hard to argue against.

I'm really curious to see where Landy falls actually.

 

[GeoRox89]

I chose Foppa for emotional reasons, but yeah, with facts. It's Sakic, Roy, and the rest is subjective.

Makar may end up top two if he wins another cup. Those two are very hard to argue against.

I'm really curious to see where Landy falls actually.

I think Landy ends up in a tier with Moose, Duke and Foote and that probably just about every single person here would put those 4 in a different order

Makar keeps up his level of play, wins another Cup and stays here until at least his twilight years and he could make it a clear top 2 with Sakic.

In a world without McDavid and better health, Mack could’ve made this more interesting too since he could have the individual hardware to compete with Foppa/Roy. At this stage, he’d have to win 2 more Cups and the Smythe both times to end up above either (without it just being a massive firestorm debate)

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think Landy ends up in a tier with Moose, Duke and Foote and that probably just about every single person here would put those 4 in a different order

Makar keeps up his level of play, wins another Cup and stays here until at least his twilight years and he could make it a clear top 2 with Sakic.

In a world without McDavid and better health, Mack could’ve made this more interesting too since he could have the individual hardware to compete with Foppa/Roy. At this stage, he’d have to win 2 more Cups and the Smythe both times to end up above either (without it just being a massive firestorm debate)

I'd probably put Landy over Mack personally, but just barely. Or maybe just below. They're very close for me lol.

 

[GeoRox89]

I'd probably put Landy over Mack personally, but just barely. Or maybe just below. They're very close for me lol.

I love the sentiment. That Cup win moved Landy to top spot in my all time favourite player in any sport list. Also been on a very long project to collect every jersey design he ever wore (game only not practice ones). I still would have to put Mack ahead. I personally have Landy at 6 and for me the clear leader after the top 5 though

 

[CobraAcesS]

I love the sentiment. That Cup win moved Landy to top spot in my all time favourite player in any sport list. Also been on a very long project to collect every jersey design he ever wore (game only not practice ones). I still would have to put Mack ahead. I personally have Landy at 6 and for me the clear leader after the top 5 though

Yeah, I almost feel as emotionally bias towards Landy as I am Foppa. Head says Mack, heart says Landy.

 

[Foppa2118]

Fair enough. I would argue cups are not possible for players on mediocre teams, no matter how dominant they are.

Regular season performance shouldn't be a debate between the two.

I don't think those Habs Cup teams were as bad as some of those Sabres teams, but they weren't top teams either. Roy got them over the finish line and was the main reason they won.

That 99 Sabres team was decent too. They only lost three games through three rounds, before losing in the finals. Hasek only winning two OT games.

Conversely, Roy had to win a crazy 10 OT games to win the Cup for Montreal in 93. That's the kind of stuff that got him three Conn Smythes and made him the best IMO.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don't think those Habs Cup teams were as bad as some of those Sabres teams, but they weren't top teams either. Roy got them over the finish line and was the main reason they won.

That 99 Sabres team was decent too. They only lost three games through three rounds, before losing in the finals. Hasek only winning two OT games.

Conversely, Roy had to win a crazy 10 OT games to win the Cup for Montreal in 93. That's the kind of stuff that got him three Conn Smythes and made him the best IMO.

That team was… okay. Looking back it’s nothing to write home about. Certainly a significantly worse team than the late 90’s stars. I mean Peca was their 1C I’m pretty sure. Obviously an unreal shutdown C but never a cup winning 1C. And Satan while a pretty good winger was also not a cornerstone piece up front. That cup finals run at least on paper is very clearly fueled by a god mode Hasek.

But I do agree, Roy in OT has a crazy level though that is rivaled by basically no one.

 

[Foppa2118]

That team was… okay. Looking back it’s nothing to write home about. Certainly a significantly worse team than the late 90’s stars. I mean Peca was their 1C I’m pretty sure. Obviously an unreal shutdown C but never a cup winning 1C. And Satan while a pretty good winger was also not a cornerstone piece up front. That cup finals run at least on paper is very clearly fueled by a god mode Hasek.

But I do agree, Roy in OT has a crazy level though that is rivaled by basically no one.

Yeah I think my characterization of decent and yours of okay, are pretty much the same in this context.

They were 9th in the NHL that year during the regular season. The Habs teams were a little better, but not by much.

Buffalo had four 20 goal scorers on that team though and Satan scored 40. Which was pretty good back then at 7th in the league, with Selanne finishing first with 47. Peca had 27.

Dallas finished 1st that year in the standings and also had four 20 goal scorers, with Modano leading the team with 34. NJ finished 2nd with four 20 goal scorers as well, with Sykora leading with 29.

Buffalo just didn't have a lot of high end point getters for whatever reason, and their bottom six didn't score much. Just a guess but they were 21st on the PP that year, so that may have played a part in the point totals.