Hey Terry, Do Us A Favor and SELL

[Jacob582]

His other teams are successful.....Bills, Bandits, Amerks.

The one he meddles with is awful.

 

[Ness]

A thing that I find infuriating is how the worthless and gutless media both local and national refuse to go at this bastard as hard as he deserves. He should be getting roasted as bad as Dan Snyder or Lil Jimmy Dolan but even that attention starved carny freak Biz won't do it.

To be fair, Biz has referred to him as “Poopy Pants Pegula” on more than one occasion.

 

[joshjull]

His other teams are successful.....Bills, Bandits, Amerks.

The one he meddles with is awful.

He’s no more involved with the Sabres than he is with the Bills.

You actually think it was Pegula's idea to hire Eric Staal?

Terry is what he’s always been. A fool who is easily talked into things.

 

[sabremike]

He’s no more involved with the Sabres than he is with the Bills.

You actually think it was Pegula's idea to hire Eric Staal?

Terry is what he’s always been. A fool who is easily talked into things.

If you took Terry into a round room and told him "go stand in the corner" he would walk around in circles until he collapsed from exhaustion.

 

[joshjull]

Me and my tinfoil hat are still convinced that Pegula is sick of the Sabres dragging him through the mud when he's a rockstar in Orchard Park.

Beane has said Pegula puts a ton of pressure to win now. I really think that Terry wants out of being perceived as a dipshirt and wants to sell the Sabres with a SB trophy to his name to keep his legacy positive.

I think the KBC lease date is a date Pegula has had on his calendar for a while now.

The more inept this franchise becomes and the more time passes without being a serious NHL team the more I'm convinced

You’re definitely into tinfoil hat territory. I get it though, you’re trying to impose a logic of some sort onto the illogical decisions. But there is no need for conspiracy when stupidity works just fine as an explanation.

Pegula has a succession plan for the Bills and Sabres involving his oldest daughter who has taken prominent positions with both teams recently. She is effectively replacing Kim as the heir to the throne so to speak. Specific to the Sabres, his oldest daughter is an alternate governor and has been attending NHL meetings in place of her father. She was involved in his oil+gas companies prior to this.

Pegula has also been working with Populous on plans to renovate the KeyBank Center. I believe 1 or 2 other companies might be involved in that as well. The first stage was the roof, scoreboard and acoustic upgrades. The next step is a renovation/modernization of KBC. The reporting so far has Pegula saying he’ll be paying for all of this. I imagine he’ll sell a portion of the Sabres to help pay for this project, as he did with the Bills for the stadium. I don’t think there will be any public money unless NYS gets involved.

Those aren’t the actions of someone looking to sell the team any time soon.

 

[Selanne00008]

What's funny is if Terry did NOT own the Sabres and lets just sya they were ho hum medeocre, a couple PO appearances.

We would probly be praising him based on the job hes' done with the Bills and saying why can't Sabreland be owned by Terry?

 

[Chainshot]

What's funny is if Terry did NOT own the Sabres and lets just sya they were ho hum medeocre, a couple PO appearances.

We would probly be praising him based on the job hes' done with the Bills and saying why can't Sabreland be owned by Terry?

Having seen how he bungled things on the Bills' side, I would more be wondering if he was able to stumble into a competent front office after so many mistakes. He's hit on one hire in all of his moves between the two teams. The rest have been snake oil salesmen and huxters. I don't expect that to ever not be what he falls for. He manages and hires like a rube.

 

[PistolPete]

Please divest totally from WNY. They are garbage owners.

What kind of things have they done?
I'm genuinely curious as I'm not too familiar with their history other than a ONE BUFFALO marketing campaign

 

[LamaTabootTaboot]

Having seen how he bungled things on the Bills' side, I would more be wondering if he was able to stumble into a competent front office after so many mistakes. He's hit on one hire in all of his moves between the two teams. The rest have been snake oil salesmen and huxters. I don't expect that to ever not be what he falls for. He manages and hires like a rube.

I know I am beating a dead horse with this. But I am confident that the reason the Bills work is not just the football acumen of McBeane. It is that they are unified when it comes to football decisions. That way Terry can never split the vote.

On top of that, I don't think that is an accident, I think it is calculated. When we heard Beane talk about the 17 hour meeting watching every play of his right before the draft. Make no bones about it, that meeting was in part to get Pegula on board.

I also think Terry understands that part of the Bills success is how unified McBeane are on football decisions. It seems obvious to me he is trying to have one cohesive vision/direction for the Sabres. But Pegula has put himself at the center. So instead of getting McBeane we are getting AdAppert.

I still think our best chance of turning this thing around under Pegula is for Lindy's voice to become much louder, and he is given a chance to install his own McBeane before he permanently retires. Curious if he could pull over a Mackinnon or Madigan over from NJD and maybe Sergei Brylin as HC?

Are they the best hires? Probably not. But if we could get back to average that would be awesome!

But do all three have a working relationship, with real life success at a quality organization? Absolutely. And brining them over together means Pegula's voice becomes softer, just like McBeane.

 

[LamaTabootTaboot]

You’re definitely into tinfoil hat territory. I get it though, you’re trying to impose a logic of some sort onto the illogical decisions. But there is no need for conspiracy when stupidity works just fine as an explanation.

Pegula has a succession plan for the Bills and Sabres involving his oldest daughter who has taken prominent positions with both teams recently. She is effectively replacing Kim as the heir to the throne so to speak. Specific to the Sabres, his oldest daughter is an alternate governor and has been attending NHL meetings in place of her father. She was involved in his oil+gas companies prior to this.

Pegula has also been working with Populous on plans to renovate the KeyBank Center. I believe 1 or 2 other companies might be involved in that as well. The first stage was the roof, scoreboard and acoustic upgrades. The next step is a renovation/modernization of KBC. The reporting so far has Pegula saying he’ll be paying for all of this. I imagine he’ll sell a portion of the Sabres to help pay for this project, as he did with the Bills for the stadium. I don’t think there will be any public money unless NYS gets involved.

Those aren’t the actions of someone looking to sell the team any time soon.

I agree that the key is watching what happens with the arena. But there is nobody reporting that Pegula is stepping up with certainty. There have been "talks".

When you look at that on its own, maybe you can feel good. But given the haste in which Erie County divested from KBC without even speaking with the city, doesn't give me good vibes. If Pegula wanted to sign a lease he would have, and I think the county would have obliged and/or a plan would have been officially announced.

But none of that happened. Everybody is just sort of left twisting in the wind.

Pair that with the Pegula bailing on the Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, and it is hard to see Pegula not selling the Sabres/Amerks. He is already operating on EEE. No way he is fitting the bill long term for an arena that houses a failing team with some of the lowest attendance in the NHL.

 

[sabremike]

I agree that the key is watching what happens with the arena. But there is nobody reporting that Pegula is stepping up with certainty. There have been "talks".

When you look at that on its own, maybe you can feel good. But given the haste in which Erie County divested from KBC without even speaking with the city, doesn't give me good vibes. If Pegula wanted to sign a lease he would have, and I think the county would have obliged and/or a plan would have been officially announced.

But none of that happened. Everybody is just sort of left twisting in the wind.

Pair that with the Pegula bailing on the Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, and it is hard to see Pegula not selling the Sabres/Amerks. He is already operating on EEE. No way he is fitting the bill long term for an arena that houses a failing team with some of the lowest attendance in the NHL.

I think it's obvious he's cutting unnecessary expenses like running a minor league arena because he's on the hook for cost overruns on the throwball stadium in a state with Nigerian or Russian levels of corruption.

 

[LamaTabootTaboot]

I think it's obvious he's cutting unnecessary expenses like running a minor league arena because he's on the hook for cost overruns on the throwball stadium in a state with Nigerian or Russian levels of corruption.

Backing out of a lease agreement and no new lease agreement are bad signs for both the stability and longevity of both teams. The inability for the Sabres to produce enough revenue for Pegula to properly support them is fully on Terry Pegula. Not NYS.

 

[joshjull]

I agree that the key is watching what happens with the arena. But there is nobody reporting that Pegula is stepping up with certainty. There have been "talks".

When you look at that on its own, maybe you can feel good. But given the haste in which Erie County divested from KBC without even speaking with the city, doesn't give me good vibes. If Pegula wanted to sign a lease he would have, and I think the county would have obliged and/or a plan would have been officially announced.

But none of that happened. Everybody is just sort of left twisting in the wind.

Pair that with the Pegula bailing on the Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, and it is hard to see Pegula not selling the Sabres/Amerks. He is already operating on EEE. No way he is fitting the bill long term for an arena that houses a failing team with some of the lowest attendance in the NHL.

In terms of the lease. The Sabres could negotiate a new long term lease or opt into the automatic 5yr extension which maintains the current arrangement. Which kicks the can down the road on lease talks. There is an 18 month extension option as well, not sure how that gets triggered. The County isn’t pulling out of the lease. They said after this lease expires, they don’t want to be involved going forward. That makes fiscal sense given the convoluted nature of the lease. But more importantly, none of that is an indication of Pegula’s intentions one way or another.

In 2011 the 189mil Pegula spent didn’t buy the Sabres. It bought Hockey Western New York LLC which owned the Sabres, Bandits and operated the arena. The last of those 3 things being the main money maker for the LLC. So repairing/upgrading the arena ensures the best chance at as many non-Sabres arena events as possible going forward. The money made from those events mitigates or even exceeds the Sabres’ losses.

There have been speculative estimates that the renovations could cost 75-200mil. Obviously it depends on how extensive the upgrades are. But Pegula could raise most, if not all, of that money by selling 20% of the Sabres like he did with the Bills.

 

[joshjull]

Backing out of a lease agreement and no new lease agreement are bad signs for both the stability and longevity of both teams. The inability for the Sabres to produce enough revenue for Pegula to properly support them is fully on Terry Pegula. Not NYS.

That’s not what happened in Rochester.

The Pegulas bought the Amerks through Hockey Western New York LLC in 2011. Their involvement with Rochester from 2011 until 2018 was owning the Amerks and being tenants of the arena. They didn’t operate it. In 2018 the City of Rochester hired them to operate/manage the arena with both parties having an opt out clause. The Pegulas set up Rochester Arena LLC for that purpose. It was an affiliate of PSE but separate from the Amerks who were part of Hockey Western New York LLC, another PSE affiliate.

The only thing that happened with Pegula exercising his opt out clause was a reversion to the relationship that existed from 2011 to 2018. The City of Rochester has already hired a new company to operate the arena (VenuWorks) and given them a 5yr deal. I believe they took over at the start of this month.

If you step back and look at the bigger picture. You’ll see that Pegula has been dismantling PSE and its affiliated companies that were created or acquired when Kim Pegula was heavily involved (like Rochester Arena LLC). They had overextended themselves. Or maybe more accurately got involved in many things Kim was interested in but Terry wasn’t.

Pegula isn’t setting things up to sell the Sabres or the LLC that owns them. He’s paring things down to what he originally bought back in 2011 before things got a little crazy.

 

[LamaTabootTaboot]

That’s not what happened in Rochester.

The Pegulas bought the Amerks through Hockey Western New York LLC in 2011. Their involvement with Rochester from 2011 until 2018 was owning the Amerks and being tenants of the arena. They didn’t operate it. In 2018 the City of Rochester hired them to operate/manage the arena with both parties having an opt out clause. The Pegulas set up Rochester Arena LLC for that purpose. It was an affiliate of PSE but separate from the Amerks who were part of Hockey Western New York LLC, another PSE affiliate.

The only thing that happened with Pegula exercising his opt out clause was a reversion to the relationship that existed from 2011 to 2018. The City of Rochester has already hired a new company to operate the arena (VenuWorks) and given them a 5yr deal. I believe they took over at the start of this month.

If you step back and look at the bigger picture. You’ll see that Pegula has been dismantling PSE and its affiliated companies that were created or acquired when Kim Pegula was heavily involved (like Rochester Arena LLC). They had overextended themselves. Or maybe more accurately got involved in many things Kim was interested in but Terry wasn’t.

Pegula isn’t setting things up to sell the Sabres or the LLC that owns them. He’s paring things down to what he originally bought back in 2011 before things got a little crazy.

It was not business as usual in Rochester. They signed the lease in 2018. Pegula dissolved PSE 2023. RA announced that this wouldn't effect the deal with BCA and it would be business as usual....that is until RA and the City of Rochester added an opt out clause in December of 2023, to which Pegula pulled the trigger on.

The order of operations went:
- Dissolve PSE
-Tell everybody nothing to see here. Nothing is going to change.
- Negotiate a change in the lease agreement.
- Pull the parachute

I will drive my original point home. A professional team without long term lease is not a stable team in its community. Pegula has negotiated out of one long term ties in Rochester. And there is about a 5% chance Terry signs a long term lease (10-15+ years) with the City of Buffalo/takes ownership of the KBC.

Maybe the Sabres/Amerks stay, but they have a lot of local instability, and that instability opens the door wide open for relocation.

It is cool you are so confident, but these aren't the behaviors organizations that are fully committed to their current cities.

 

[joshjull]

It was not business as usual in Rochester. They signed the lease in 2018. Pegula dissolved PSE 2023. RA announced that this wouldn't effect the deal with BCA and it would be business as usual....that is until RA and the City of Rochester added an opt out clause in December of 2023, to which Pegula pulled the trigger on.

The order of operations went:
- Dissolve PSE
-Tell everybody nothing to see here. Nothing is going to change.
- Negotiate a change in the lease agreement.
- Pull the parachute

I will drive my original point home. A professional team without long term lease is not a stable team in its community. Pegula has negotiated out of one long term ties in Rochester. And there is about a 5% chance Terry signs a long term lease (10-15+ years) with the City of Buffalo/takes ownership of the KBC.

Maybe the Sabres/Amerks stay, but they have a lot of local instability, and that instability opens the door wide open for relocation.

It is cool you are so confident, but these aren't the behaviors organizations that are fully committed to their current cities.

I appreciate the passion, but you’re still wrong.

1) There is no lease involved in this. Rochester Arena LLC was hired to operate the arena. They're not leasing it, they’re running it.

2) Rochester Arena LLC has nothing to do with the Amerks situation. They don’t own the Amerks, Hockey Western New York LLC does. They would be the ones with an agreement with the City of Rochester for the Amerks to play in that arena. I’ve seen nothing from about that LLC opting out of anything.

3) Sabres ownership has not been involved in running the Rochester Arena for the overwhelming majority of the 40+ years of the relationship. Pegula is returning things to the normal long standing arrangement (which includes his own ownership tenure from 2011 to 2018). What happened from 2018 to the opt out is the abnormal part of the story.



Terry is unloading the things Kim added to the mix from the Rochester area (Knighthawks/Hockey Arena LLC). Back when she got heavily involved in PSE. He is paring things down to his 2011 purchases under the Hockey Western New York LLC umbrella; Sabres, Amerks, Bandits and leasing+operational control of KBC.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

edit

 

[LamaTabootTaboot]

I appreciate the passion, but you’re still wrong.

1) There is no lease involved in this. Rochester Arena LLC was hired to operate the arena. They're not leasing it, they’re running it.

2) Rochester Arena LLC has nothing to do with the Amerks situation. They don’t own the Amerks, Hockey Western New York LLC does. They would be the ones with an agreement with the City of Rochester for the Amerks to play in that arena. I’ve seen nothing from about that LLC opting out of anything.

3) Sabres ownership has not been involved in running the Rochester Arena for the overwhelming majority of the 40+ years of the relationship. Pegula is returning things to the normal long standing arrangement (which includes his own ownership tenure from 2011 to 2018). What happened from 2018 to the opt out is the abnormal part of the story.



Terry is unloading the things Kim added to the mix from the Rochester area (Knighthawks/Hockey Arena LLC). Back when she got heavily involved in PSE. He is paring things down to his 2011 purchases under the Hockey Western New York LLC umbrella; Sabres, Amerks, Bandits and leasing+operational control of KBC.

https://www.wxxinews.org/local-news/2024-04-02/rochesters-blue-cross-arena-seeking-new-operator-after-amerks-owner-opts-out

RA is affiliated with Buffalo Sabres and Bills owner Terry Pegula who last summer dissolved parent company Pegula Sports and Entertainment. At the time, a company spokesperson said the restructuring would "not affect the day-to-day operations here in Rochester,” and that the plan was to "continue to oversee operations of the arena and all the teams under the Pegula ownership will continue to operate as their own entities similarly to how they have been.”

Sorry, contract/agreement. PSE signed a 15 year contract. RA, an affiliate of Pegula and the Sabres took it over. RA is its own entity but ultimately it is still Terry Pegula. We good now?

RA literally said after dissolving PSE that nothing would change. It was merely a dissolving of PSE, like you said and that they would continue to honor their agreement to run the arena.

Then they negotiated a new opt out period.

Then they pulled the ripcord and threw the operations kicking it back to the city of Rochester.

So sure, I know Pegula's reps said this was merely a dissolution of PSE, And you can continue to parrot that just like they did. But they also said nothing would change with their agreement with the city of Rochester...until it did, and they noped out of the whole thing.

And again, to the main point, this and the current KBC situation are not the behaviors of an owner who is fully committed to the cities in which they reside. The hockey orgs in WNY aren't stable. This doesn't mean they will sell in the next 5 years, but it does mean they have certainly made it much much easier to. I would be shocked if we saw a 15 year agreement from either org to either city in the next 365 days.

It is fairly common for the major team in an arena to manage the arena as part of their agreement with the city. It happens all over the NHL/NBA. This wasn't just some pet project for Kim Pegula. It is pretty standard.

 

[joshjull]

https://www.wxxinews.org/local-news/2024-04-02/rochesters-blue-cross-arena-seeking-new-operator-after-amerks-owner-opts-out

Sorry, contract/agreement. PSE signed a 15 year contract. RA, an affiliate of Pegula and the Sabres took it over. RA is its own entity but ultimately it is still Terry Pegula. We good now?

RA literally said after dissolving PSE that nothing would change. It was merely a dissolving of PSE, like you said and that they would continue to honor their agreement to run the arena.

Then they negotiated a new opt out period.

Then they pulled the ripcord and threw the operations kicking it back to the city of Rochester.

So sure, I know Pegula's reps said this was merely a dissolution of PSE, And you can continue to parrot that just like they did. But they also said nothing would change with their agreement with the city of Rochester...until it did, and they noped out of the whole thing.

And again, to the main point, this and the current KBC situation are not the behaviors of an owner who is fully committed to the cities in which they reside. The hockey orgs in WNY aren't stable. This doesn't mean they will sell in the next 5 years, but it does mean they have certainly made it much much easier to. I would be shocked if we saw a 15 year agreement from either org to either city in the next 365 days.

It is fairly common for the major team in an arena to manage the arena as part of their agreement with the city. It happens all over the NHL/NBA. This wasn't just some pet project for Kim Pegula. It is pretty standard.

You’re still way off the mark. Also the article you linked doesn’t dispute what I’ve posted.

1) Sabres owners have never operated Rochester’s Arena until RA was created in 2019 to do that. Terry going back to the long standing Sabres owners position of not operating the Rochester Arena is about as normal as it gets.

Entities that have operated War Memorial
1955-2000 -> City Of Rochester
2000-2019 -> Spectra Management Group
2019-4/30/25 -> Rochester Arena LLC
5/1/25 -> VenuWorks (5yr deal)

From 1995 to 20011 the Sabres didn’t even own the Amerks. They weren’t even the Sabres affiliate for several years before Pegula bought them in 2011 and re-established the relationship.

3) Rochester area native Kim Pegula starts getting heavily involved in PSE. Then not long after that the Pegulas’ presence in the Rochester sports scene expands quite a bit. You’d have to be incredibly naive to think that was a coincidence. It’s also not a pet project, she was interested in having a presence in the Rochester sports scene.

Her husband does not share that interest. He just wants to own the Sabres AHL affiliate. So he’s going back to the previous relationship he had with Rochester from 2011-2019 and supposedly looking to sell the KnightHawks The spokesman at the time of PSE’s breakup said nothing would change. Obviously things changed. Could have been due to issues with the arena not getting resolved. But I think it’s far more likely Pegula simply didn’t want to be involved in running that arena anymore.

4) There is nothing unusual about the lease situation in Buffalo right now. They have until the end of Sept 2025 to work something out. But even then they could opt in to the auto 5yr extension under the same terms. Essentially kicking the can down the road 5 years. We aren’t in the danger zone yet for lease negotiations. All parties involved said it’s something coming up and the eBay to resolve. the County has already laid down its marker on that front.


Pegula could certainly sell the team if he wanted. But nothing you’ve mentioned tells us thats what he’s looking to do.