Hey Terry, Do Us A Favor and SELL

I don't think he is selling, BUT, if he were, i do not think the team leaves Buffalo. I don't think the NHL would actually allow it, nor think it's in the best interest of the NHL to have one of the top two NHL viewer markets NOT have a home town team.

What are the Sabres worth? And does Josh Allen have enough liquidity to buy them?

The NHL's biggest thing is it protects is franchise values.

The fact that franchise values essentially have skyrocketed over the past few years means teams can stomach losing cash up front when the teams aren't great. Most small to mid market teams lose money unless they win a playoff round or two. The revenue model is designed that teams spend, on average, to the midpoint. And that includes all the teams. So when a small market team spends to the cap....its losing money.

The sabres aren't losing money. They are absolutely bleeding it. 80% attendance with the need to have promotions constantly to get to that is bad. I'd wager they are losing 20-30M per year on this team. Maybe more. If they were to be sold out nightly and have a playoff round consistently, they'd probably be close to breakeven.

And the fact the arena needs a massive renovation is bad too.

All that being said....the NHL, especially with expansion on the horizon, isn't going to want to sell for less than 1 Billion. Ottawa sold for 950M. Arizona went for 1.2B.

The reality is, I don't think they will be able to get that from a local buyer. Which means, selling is going to be a difficult proposition.
 
Just a reminder that the Sabres made the playoffs 75% of the time before Terry bought the team. I'm really wondering how he even became a billionaire in the first place. Is it possible in the fracking business that you can just make bad decision after bad decision and still print money?

Not just that they had made the playoffs, I’m pretty sure they were seventh or eighth all-time and winning percentage as a franchise. Top third of the whole league and here we sit 15 years later, wondering how and why and most importantly when will it end?
 
Not just that they had made the playoffs, I’m pretty sure they were seventh or eighth all-time and winning percentage as a franchise. Top third of the whole league and here we sit 15 years later, wondering how and why and most importantly when will it end?
This was an awesome franchise for so many years. This f***ing owner demolished it. f***ing asshole.
 
The NHL's biggest thing is it protects is franchise values.

The fact that franchise values essentially have skyrocketed over the past few years means teams can stomach losing cash up front when the teams aren't great. Most small to mid market teams lose money unless they win a playoff round or two. The revenue model is designed that teams spend, on average, to the midpoint. And that includes all the teams. So when a small market team spends to the cap....its losing money.

The sabres aren't losing money. They are absolutely bleeding it. 80% attendance with the need to have promotions constantly to get to that is bad. I'd wager they are losing 20-30M per year on this team. Maybe more. If they were to be sold out nightly and have a playoff round consistently, they'd probably be close to breakeven.

And the fact the arena needs a massive renovation is bad too.

All that being said....the NHL, especially with expansion on the horizon, isn't going to want to sell for less than 1 Billion. Ottawa sold for 950M. Arizona went for 1.2B.

The reality is, I don't think they will be able to get that from a local buyer. Which means, selling is going to be a difficult proposition.

Good insight. im sure it's difficult to know exactly, but lets say they lose 25M every year. So every 4 years they are cash flow negative 100M. Is the franchise value going up by 100M every 4 years if they sell? I would think so. If it's worth 1.2B now, in 4 years time it should be worth more than 1.3B. Jessica Pegula might only be in tennis a couple more years before retiring. Maybe she can turn it around.

I'm grasping at straws here in the cold north Atlantic after an iceberg sank the ship though.
 
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Good insight. im sure it's difficult to know exactly, but lets say they lose 25M every year. So every 4 years they are cash flow negative 100M. Is the franchise value going up by 100M every 4 years if they sell? I would think so. If it's worth 1.2B now, in 4 years time it should be worth more than 1.3B. Jessica Pegula might only be in tennis a couple more years before retiring. Maybe she can turn it around.

I'm grasping at straws here in the cold north Atlantic after an iceberg sank the ship though.

I believe it is his oldest daughter that has been learning the ropes not Jessica.
 
From who? Anyone remotely associated with the organization? Let's hope it goes to Jessica, then :crossfing

I guess the only thing we have to go on was she was there for the announcement of Lindy coming back.

Screenshot_20250421_123154_Google.jpg
 
Just a reminder that the Sabres made the playoffs 75% of the time before Terry bought the team. I'm really wondering how he even became a billionaire in the first place. Is it possible in the fracking business that you can just make bad decision after bad decision and still print money?
Being really good or even an expert at one thing does not mean you would be really good or even ok at something completely different.
 
I believe it is his oldest daughter that has been learning the ropes not Jessica.
Yep, with both teams. I’m pretty sure her involvement with the Bills was prompted by the NFL requiring a succession plan. It appears she’s effectively replacing Kim’s role before her health issues.
 
Being really good or even an expert at one thing does not mean you would be really good or even ok at something completely different.

Still though, you would hope the management skills/knowledge to run a billion dollar successful business would have some overlap with managing another business. He isn’t suiting up for the Sabres and playing right wing. He’s hiring upper level management and giving them direction on how to run things (or if he isn’t, then maybe that is the problem).
 
Still though, you would hope the management skills/knowledge to run a billion dollar successful business would have some overlap with managing another business. He isn’t suiting up for the Sabres and playing right wing. He’s hiring upper level management and giving them direction on how to run things (or if he isn’t, then maybe that is the problem).


He knows the gas industry. He doesn't know hockey.

Running an actual business and running your sports team that is a hobby or toy isn't remotely the same.
 
Still though, you would hope the management skills/knowledge to run a billion dollar successful business would have some overlap with managing another business. He isn’t suiting up for the Sabres and playing right wing. He’s hiring upper level management and giving them direction on how to run things (or if he isn’t, then maybe that is the problem).
A winger is not analogous to an oil executive. There are at opposite ends of the org chart.

Pegula started his oil and gas company after previously working in the industry. He had knowledge of the industry that he applied to running his company. He has no such knowledge of running a hockey team or even who are the top minds in that field. He’s just fan who happens to own a team.
 
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A winger is not analogous to an oil executive. There are at opposite ends of the org chart.

Pegula started his oil and gas company after previously working in the industry. He had knowledge of the industry that he applied to running his company. He has no such knowledge of running a hockey team or even who are the top minds in that field. He’s just fan who happens to own a team.

I know he isn’t a winger, that was my point. Being an oil executive shouldn’t be that much different from being a professional sports team owner, such that you are wildly successful in one and literally the worst of all time at the other. CEOs and executives jump industries all the time.

The only thing that makes sense is he is ignoring everything that made him successful in one endeavor and trying to make believe he’s a hockey GM or something. It’s why I can’t wait for one of his kids to take over. They won’t want to live the same fantasy. They will likely run it as a business and delegate hockey decisions to subject matter experts (which is what I bet Terry would do in his fracking business).
 
He knows the gas industry. He doesn't know hockey.

Running an actual business a

I think the Pegula's biggest problem is that once you have a certain amount of success, whether it was actual acumen or pure luck, you get treated like you are a genius. Just constant praise because people want some of your money. Our society, unfortunately, conflates skill with wealth, thus, the more wealth you have, the smarter and more skillful you must be. And I think the wealthy can start to believe that and have brain rot. Every time I stop on a reality show about rich people, they are being painted as uber talented mensa members while they can't figure out how to open an exit door.

I really do think the core issue is that Terry thinks he can do this by himself and its not that hard. I go back to the press conference where they fired GMJB. "I think the 3 of us (Krueger, Adams and himself) can figure it out"

I think there is a lack of respect to how hard it is to build and manage a team and an severe overestimation in his ability to do it is what has gotten us to this point.

If anything, seeing how BAD the Pegulas have been with the Sabres makes me respect the shit out of Beane even more. To be able to run a team well AND make the Pegulas feel like they had a big part of it is a hell of an undertaking.
 
I think the Pegula's biggest problem is that once you have a certain amount of success, whether it was actual acumen or pure luck, you get treated like you are a genius. Just constant praise because people want some of your money. Our society, unfortunately, conflates skill with wealth, thus, the more wealth you have, the smarter and more skillful you must be. And I think the wealthy can start to believe that and have brain rot. Every time I stop on a reality show about rich people, they are being painted as uber talented mensa members while they can't figure out how to open an exit door.

I really do think the core issue is that Terry thinks he can do this by himself and its not that hard. I go back to the press conference where they fired GMJB. "I think the 3 of us (Krueger, Adams and himself) can figure it out"

I think there is a lack of respect to how hard it is to build and manage a team and an severe overestimation in his ability to do it is what has gotten us to this point.

If anything, seeing how BAD the Pegulas have been with the Sabres makes me respect the shit out of Beane even more. To be able to run a team well AND make the Pegulas feel like they had a big part of it is a hell of an undertaking.

I suspect it is more McDermott than beane. McDermott seems like a guy who can impose his will and can be firm in getting what he wants.... yet he probably gives a lot of respect to pegula and his thoughts. But then very convincing that it needs to be X
 
I know he isn’t a winger, that was my point. Being an oil executive shouldn’t be that much different from being a professional sports team owner, such that you are wildly successful in one and literally the worst of all time at the other.CEOs and executives jump industries all the time.

The only thing that makes sense is he is ignoring everything that made him successful in one endeavor and trying to make believe he’s a hockey GM or something. It’s why I can’t wait for one of his kids to take over. They won’t want to live the same fantasy. They will likely run it as a business and delegate hockey decisions to subject matter experts (which is what I bet Terry would do in his fracking business).

And yet it is.

Pegula wasn’t just an oil executive. He an owner of an oil+gas company, ran that company and was the “subject matter expert” of that’s company , to steal your phrase. His prior experience working in the oil+ gas industry is why he chose to start a company in it. He understood it.

He bought the Sabres because he was a fan. Not because he knew how to run a hockey team or more specifically a hockey ops department. Nor did he know who the top hockey ops people were. That’s why he’s had to consult with others on various hires. As pretty much any owner would have to. He’s had to do that with the Bills as well. Where he’s had some luck thats led to a run of success. So he can be a successful pro sports team owner.

I hate to be a dream crusher but his kids also have no relevant experience in running a hockey ops department or identifying those who would be best suited to run it. So like their dad, they’ll need to consult others for guidance. Maybe they’ll have better luck.
 
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And yet it is.

Pegula wasn’t just an oil executive. He an owner of an oil+gas company, ran that company and was the “subject matter expert” of that’s company , to steal your phrase. His prior experience working in the oil+ gas industry is why he chose to start a company in it. He understood it.

He bought the Sabres because he was a fan. Not because he knew how to run a hockey team or more specifically a hockey ops department. Nor did he know who the top hockey ops people were. That’s why he’s had to consult with others on various hires. As pretty much any owner would have to. He’s had to do that with the Bills as well. Where he’s had some luck thats led to a run of success. So he can be a successful pro sports team owner.

I hate to be a dream crusher but his kids also have no relevant experience in running a hockey ops department or identifying those who would be best suited to run it. So like their dad, they’ll need to consult others for guidance. Maybe they’ll have better luck.


I’m really not understanding your point. All of the NHL owners come from disparate backgrounds that have nothing to do with professional sports management (other than the handful that inherited their team like Wirtz). There are tech founders, finance people, retailers, healthcare execs, pharma people, etc. Some are even oil and gas executives like Pegula!

They almost all manage to not be completely incompetent. He is uniquely terrible at this across a sample size of all professional sports owners in the history of North American professional sports. It’s actually remarkable!

I have hope that his kids would be less incompetent, because they would statistically have to be unless there is some genetic component to terrible mismanagement.

If this is how he runs his oil and gas business I have to assume he got lucky, had the right connections and was at the right place at the right time. Being a billionaire isn’t always a meritocracy. Sometimes people stumble into a money printer.
 
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I’m really not understanding your point. All of the NHL owners come from disparate backgrounds that have nothing to do with professional sports management (other than the handful that inherited their team like Wirtz). There are tech founders, finance people, retailers, healthcare execs, pharma people, etc. Some are even oil and gas executives like Pegula!
I think where some of the disconnect between us is coming from is you’re lumping together the two different elements of owning a pro sports team. You’re treating them as if they’re were the same.

1) There is the off ice/off field business side. Where any of those owners experiences in the business world would be helpful.

2) Then there is the on ice/on field operations side. Where their prior business knowledge, regardless of the industry, isn’t going to help them. It’s why they have on lean the advice of others who are in the hockey or football world to learn who they should interview to run the operations side. Then ultimately its up to them to decide.

Now there are owners who are very dialed into the sports they buy into. Let’s say there’s someone who buys a hockey team who is dialed in to that world and demostrates the type of knowledge @Chainshot does on here. That owner would be much better situated to pick the right guy to run hockey ops than most others. But that knowledge wasn’t gained through their business, it was a hobby or passion outside that.
They almost all manage to not be completely incompetent. He is uniquely terrible at this across a sample size of all professional sports owners in the history of North American professional sports. It’s actually remarkable!
You can’t make this argument when he also owns the Bills. Something you keep trying to ignore. Pegula is simultaneously one of the worst pro sports owners of one team while also a successful owner of another.
I have hope that his kids would be less incompetent, because they would statistically have to be unless there is some genetic component to terrible mismanagement.
Again, mixed results as an owner for Pegula.
If this is how he runs his oil and gas business I have to assume he got lucky, had the right connections and was at the right place at the right time. Being a billionaire isn’t always a meritocracy. Sometimes people stumble into a money printer.
This is another area of disconnect. Pegula made his money in the oil+gas industry based on his own personal knowledge of that industry. He was the “subject matter expert” that he relied on to build his business.

Being a sports team owner is different. He has to rely on someone else to build that successful football team or hockey team. Because he doesnt have the knowledge to do it himself like he did with his company.

So far, he’s failed to pick the right guy to run the hockey team, but had success picking the right guy for the football team.
 
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