Hey Terry, Do Us A Favor and SELL

[Sabresfansince1980]

In my line of work, I see the "news" that makes the local paper and websites but know the real details that get left out all the time, or worse news that never even gets headlines because it's not in line with what media or city leaders want in the public eye. Sometimes it's about average crime making/not making news. Sometimes it's about underhanded tactics or borderline unethical behavior or management among city leaders. One way or the other I see what gets left out from what the public should know, even when it's information that most in the public would likely reject in some way. It pains me to be in a position to know so much and not be able to do/say anything about it.

As far as the Sabres, I just wish we could get a refreshingly blunt and honest assessment or statement about the team, the direction it's taking, and why. If this team is constantly being rejected by UFAs then say so. If Pegula has lost too much money for his liking and wants to run the team on a tight budget, then say so. If the plan is to spend as little as possible and hope prospects develop then just say so. When the team and/or coaching is over it's head, then just say so. It shouldn't be such a huge leap to say, "We're not good/experienced/knowledgeable enough but we're trying and we care". Some fans/media may still call for firings but being honest goes a long way to keeping the majority of the fan base behind you.

 

[kirby11]

I feel the worst for the younger generation of fans who've never known what it's like to root for a consistenly good, playoff-bound Sabres team.

Growing up in the 90s, you had Hasek posting shutouts or giving up 1-2 goals seemingly every other night and stymieing opponents with miraculous saves. Those teams weren't the most talented, sure, but they made you work for everything and grinded opponents into dust. Even in the early 2000s, there were some great moments: seeing Hasek get rocked that one time when he came back with Detroit, seeing a few lopsided victories against the Thrashers, etc.

And then...05-06. From game 1 against the Islanders, right out of the lockout, seeing how the new game looked and how the Sabres were almost tailor-made for it, there was this almost immediate feeling of, "They might have something here." And there were so many moments that confirmed it: Connolly dangling through Toronto's defenders, Miller and Biron playing out of their minds for different stretches, Grier beating the Flyers with 2 seconds left on the clock, going to see a Bruins beatdown in March in person for my buddy's birthday.

It wasn't just the talent, either--the team used to play hard almost every night, even in defeat, and the crowd rewarded them for it. Even though the arena's always been a bit run-down, there was a sense of, "It might be a dump, but it's *our* dump." And it didn't matter as much when you had great sight lines and an engaged, loud crowd for *every* game, not just retirement nights or the start of the season before the team was in the basement.

Of all the things he's done wrong with the Sabres, Pegula's ineptitude leading to the long-term loss of that beautiful noise is among the worst.

 

[kirby11]

How common is it to hire or not hire president of hockey operations for first time GMs?

I'm not sure, but I feel like Pegula should've realized he needed one by then regardless, or at least after firing Murray, with how many of his moves to that point had failed/backfired.

 

[May Day 10]

The NHL does not get big bucks for relocation in most cases. They get new money for expansion teams.

I think that is why you haven't seen the Yotes move. The NHL wants competition for expansion teams so that the expansion fees continue to rise and rise and rise.

So, I do not foresee the NHL wanting to move a team like the Sabres to a market that could boost future expansion fees.

There would be a relocation fee, and it wouldn't be small.

The value of the Sabres in Houston would skyrocket, thus increasing the value of all the teams.

The Houston TV market destroys Buffalo too. The NHL wanted to keep their national footprint of Miami and Phoenix, which is what probably saved those franchises.


It is possible they want to save Houston for a round of expansion though.

I do not think the NHL (or Pegula) is in a hurry to leave Buffalo. The conditions are right though, as I said, through the Lease situation, condition of that awful arena, and overall fan apathy that threatens to crater through all of their "learning" and "growth opportunities" and "finding their identity"

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm not sure, but I feel like Pegula should've realized he needed one by then regardless, or at least after firing Murray, with how many of his moves to that point had failed/backfired.

I mean whether you call it a GM or president, he has to hire someone and put them in charge. He did that, and both Botts and Murray were praised hires. I don’t know the difference between hiring a president of hockey operations to help with his hiring decisions—either way an owner has to pick that initial person to run decisions.

I get that the blame always goes upwards, but I have seen bad GMs and coaches not get the job done here. I have not seen Pegula do anything patently wrong

 

[SabresFan26]

I remember when everyone was saying in the media world, man the world is going to love this Terry Pegula guy. He has deep pockets and loves the Sabres.

Poor Tommy G, albeit we were cheap, we found a way to ice competitive teams and for the most part we had a great first-class hockey department.

As someone who grew up with the 90s play off runs and then the 2000s runs, where we've gone is disgraceful. There's not one thing positive worth watching right now. They aren't exciting, they don't play with passion or heart, they are soft, they don't score. It's a waste of time.

I had connections to the team and use to see a few games every year to drive out and catch games or when I moved, see them in away markets but quite candidly, other than my wife buying me a Dahlin jersey 4 years ago, I haven't spent a dollar on them. I haven't gone to a game since 2015.

Terry's leadership has literally killed this organization. Horrible decision after horrible decision leads to where we are at now. Selfishly, I don't want the team to leave Buffalo, but man there's nothing positive about the organization. Literally THEY ARE THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE RECORD WISE IN THE LAST DECADE.

Fire Kevyn Adams immediately and hire a real GM. I'd rather have Botterill or Murray, at least they were qualified and would've hopefully learned from their mistakes. Nepotismish hire. He literally had 0 experience and got 1 of 32 jobs in the world. What's next, someone in his family to take the reigns?

Let a new GM clean house in the hockey department and fire the coach. Trade out half the roster who are friends with Granato and hire someone who will get results.

I wish 90% of our alumni base could write a public letter about their disgust of the organization and ask for change.

 

[May Day 10]

I still don’t blame Pegula. He DID hire qualified GMs to run this team and things went poorly.

From day one, his stewardship of this team was disjointed and reactive.

Decided to hang on to Ruff and Regier against the consensus among fans and media. That failed miserably.
Waited and waited, through an extended lockout, and ended up firing Ruff early in a shortened season, and they treated it like a funeral that they were forced to do because arena crowds were getting angry and vocal.

They thought they could get away with hiring Ron Rololston (so many Granato parallels). That didnt last long, but he and Regier survived another offseason. Regier put in place a deep rebuild.

But as crowds got ugly again, they fired Regier and Rolston in November. Replacing them with LaFontaine (and Craig Patrick) and Nolan.

Kim Pegula challenges LaFontaine left and right until he quits after a few months.

Murray ends up as the defacto president. He is clearly on the spectrum and incapable of holding so much responsibility (I truly believe LaFontaine's plan was to have Murray do more nuts and bolts of scouting and player selection, while LaFontaine, being groomed by Patrick would be more the face of the franchise and conduct some of the GM duties.

Murray ate through the cupboard of assets. We sat on him for too long. Bylsma was a disaster and they waited too long on him as well. When They were both gone, Pegula said he would never give up control again. Haunting words.

Botterill by all accounts was an up and coming GM. He was not very good though but there was always a spectre of Pegula hanging over everything and how Botterill has to talk to Pegula every day, and Housley also reports directly to the owner. Ownership funded the coach's wife's Senate campaign, creating a stronger bridge. They had to hold on to Housley too long, killing 2 seasons.

Kruger was an unmitigated disaster. Again, they held onto him too long. The only thing that saved us was that 18 game losing streak because there was no possible way to justify him retaining that position.

Adams was hired from nowhere, our Garth Snow after Botterill. Mainly because Pegula likes him and he was willing to fire everybody during a global pandemic. In 4 offseasons, the team is roughly where it was when he started.

Granato, Rolston part 2, is probably the 3rd coach here in this time that appears in way over his head. It has been obvious, and a change needed to be made in November. Being reactive, they are going to wait until the season is completely dead and finished and use him for a sacrifice.


I dont see any real experience there. Craig Patrick was probably the best one, but he was here for like 3 months. The only individual who was hired by another NHL team in the same role was Lindy Ruff.

 

[BFLO]

Best part of the rant hands down!

Well said!

My biggest fear is dying before they win. As the years pass, that becomes more and more likely. And im only 37.

I'm the same age as you. I always thought that someday I'd get to celebrate a Bills Super Bowl win and a Sabres Stanley Cup with my Dad who got me into Buffalo sports at a very young age.

But now that I'm entering middle age and my Dad just retired it's beginning to sink in that it's probably never going to happen. Especially for the Sabres.

The Bills have been close, but now they're over the cap and the roster is ageing out. Feels like the window is closed for the next season or 2. And it's anyone's guess if they'll come out better on the other side of this retool.

 

[Dubi Doo]

On the bright side, I’m dusting my gear off. Because getting back out and playing myself is the only thing I can think of to salvage my love of hockey. It’s never been in such jeopardy in almost 40 years and it’s depressing that the thing I obsess over 360 days a year has come to this.

Sabres play + reffing has made it very hard to be a fan of this sport, but my love for it runs too deep.

 

[TehDoak]

I realized a few years back that every terrible decision the team had made up until the point (Leino, Skinner, O'Reilly trade) made a ton of sense if you imagined an impatient billionaire yelling "I don't care, get it done, now" on the phone to the GM.

The Pegulas inability to bring in a strong voice to advise them on hiring, on front office structure, and how to essentially run the team has been its death knell. The hiring of a guy with absolutely zero experience in hockey whose only qualification was unfettered loyalty to the Pegulas and how they handled their employees during covid was the end of my "fandom". I still care, but its not nearly on the level it once was. I used to watch every game, now maybe I catch 1 in 3. I enjoy talking roster planning/trades/etc, but even that is just an endless source of frustration because the front office isn't operating at a base level of competence. Say what you will about Botterill/Murray, they both had some sort of a plan. I mean, it wasn't a good one or it was done in haste, but there was at least some kind of logic to it. Adams just kind of exists to keep a shitty status quo and even when he does something, the reasoning behind it is typically "Well, the coach likes this guy" or "Who better to mentor our 1st overall d-men than another 1st overall d-man!"

 

[KeyserSoze81]

If he does sell, Larry Quinn will find the new buyer and reincarnate again.

The shit-phoenix returns. As the prophecy fortells:

Out of the pile of shit, Larry Quinn shall congeal, once more spreading his skidmarks throughout WNY.

 

[Dubi Doo]

With the Yotes and Panthers never moving from worse situations than the Sabres are in, I cannot imagine a scenario where the NHL allows the Sabres to be moved out of Buffalo.



For me, I have just seen my interest in the Sabres wither on the vine with Adams's continued lack of proactivity to do anything other than slow cook the roster.

My interest in the Bills has taken off and I do not see that changing as they at least have a GM that has built a legit contender and he makes moves to try and get better.

I agree! The Sabres and Bills are stratospheres apart. The Bills are also on the cusp of making a run.

Remember when the Bills were 6-6, and everyone and their mom gave up on them. Well, every man in that lockerroom craved for more. They have leaders who set the bar higher than that. They turned it around off of pure will power + a GM who made a couple savvy, in-season trades/signings.

If that were the Sabres, the coach and players would be singing Kumbaya as they continue to lose while us fans wonder if KA still has a pulse.

Winning a championship is hard. The Bills know what it takes- they just haven't had their moment. The Sabres are completely clueless. They'd probably call a run to 10th place in the east a success at this point.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I mean whether you call it a GM or president, he has to hire someone and put them in charge. He did that, and both Botts and Murray were praised hires. I don’t know the difference between hiring a president of hockey operations to help with his hiring decisions—either way an owner has to pick that initial person to run decisions.

I get that the blame always goes upwards, but I have seen bad GMs and coaches not get the job done here. I have not seen Pegula do anything patently wrong

Most incorrect post ever

 

[slip]

13 miserable f***ing years with this ass clown of a family. And tragically many more to come.

Every time you think the suffering is over, it’s only just beginning.

Welcome to Hockey Hell.

 

[May Day 10]

It is puzzling to think that this 13 years of existence has been in any way enjoyable or rewarding to Terry Pegula. The team has not been close, there have not been any important games at all. The franchise has shrunken into complete unprecedented irrelevancy.

How does he look at this and not want it to succeed? The only explanation is he is determined that this present path is going to pay off. I don't understand how he can be so deluded.

Is communication and having full familiarity and trust of your management the most important aspect of his ownership of this team? It sure seems that way.

I do not think they will ever be a relevant or serious team under Terry Pegula's leadership. His philosophies are poison for an NHL franchise. NHL teams fire coaches like I change shirts. Pegula is always looking for institutional life partner coaches before they accomplish a thing.
Kevyn Adams is unfit to be general manager and would not get hired anywhere else, even as an AGM if Buffalo let him go. Adams is Pegula's personal discovery and Pegula likely takes a lot of pride in Adams' "success". Kevyn Adams will be general manager for at least 2 more full seasons.

Granato's extension doesnt even start until next season!

The second this team goes on a flukey 5 game winning streak, expect more extensions.

 

[BloFan4Life]

The team has been quietly for sale for over 2 years now, no one wants them. The NHL is not a profitable venture in America. It takes someone who wants an expensive hobby.

There has been some things over the last few years to make the sale easier, but its not helping.

 

[Chainshot]

His approach reminds me of a simpleton. He does something that doesn't work, so then he won't try that scope of actions EVER AGAIN. There is no nuance.

 

[TehDoak]

The team has been quietly for sale for over 2 years now, no one wants them. The NHL is not a profitable venture in America. It takes someone who wants an expensive hobby.

There has been some things over the last few years to make the sale easier, but its not helping.

Do you have any source on this?

I mean, some things do line up a bit. The bare bones spending is typical when an owner is trying to move a property.

That being said, the biggest road block to a sale would be the NHL. They defend franchise value. If Terry and Kim wanted to sell the team for 500M, the NHL would stop them. Because that would devalue their current franchises. Essentially, they are going to have to get someone to pay market value for a team with a 25+ year old arena needing probably 10s of Millions of dollars in repairs.

 

[Jim Bob]

There would be a relocation fee, and it wouldn't be small.

The value of the Sabres in Houston would skyrocket, thus increasing the value of all the teams.

The Houston TV market destroys Buffalo too. The NHL wanted to keep their national footprint of Miami and Phoenix, which is what probably saved those franchises.


It is possible they want to save Houston for a round of expansion though.

I do not think the NHL (or Pegula) is in a hurry to leave Buffalo. The conditions are right though, as I said, through the Lease situation, condition of that awful arena, and overall fan apathy that threatens to crater through all of their "learning" and "growth opportunities" and "finding their identity"

When the Atlanta Thrashers were bought and moved to Winnipeg, the relocation fee was a fraction of the sale price of the team ($60M vs $170M).

There is no way a relocation fee would be anywhere near an expansion fee.

Bettman has not allowed the Yotes to move despite way worse ownership issues than the Sabres have with the Pegulas. And Bettman has worked to keep the Sabres in Buffalo before. This is not something that is even worth contemplating for me.

 

[slip]

His approach reminds me of a simpleton. He does something that doesn't work, so then he won't try that scope of actions EVER AGAIN. There is no nuance.

“But I tried hiring a president of hockey ops 13 years ago but during that 4 months he said some mean thing to my wifey so why would I ever travel down that road again?”

 

[kirby11]

His approach reminds me of a simpleton. He does something that doesn't work, so then he won't try that scope of actions EVER AGAIN. There is no nuance.

An extreme version of Murray’s “I won’t draft Russians” plan, but applied to every aspect of a sports franchise. What could go wrong?

 

[Tatanka]

The team has been quietly for sale for over 2 years now, no one wants them. The NHL is not a profitable venture in America. It takes someone who wants an expensive hobby.

There has been some things over the last few years to make the sale easier, but its not helping.

This is not accurate. A non-controlling piece was floated to private equity investors. Without control, it went nowhere. The Pegs wish to hand this down to Terry’s daughter from his first marriage. That has been the plan. It does not appear to have changed at all.

 

[Chainshot]

An extreme version of Murray’s “I won’t draft Russians” plan, but applied to every aspect of a sports franchise. What could go wrong?

“But I tried hiring a president of hockey ops 13 years ago but during that 4 months he said some mean thing to my wifey so why would I ever travel down that road again?”

He tried hiring a guy with no experience except in Terry's fandom. It wasn't the only time he was sold a bill of goods by someone - has happened a lot with the Bills pre-McDermott too. And since that didn't work, he now won't hire someone to be president.

 

[DapperCam]

With the Yotes and Panthers never moving from worse situations than the Sabres are in, I cannot imagine a scenario where the NHL allows the Sabres to be moved out of Buffalo.

The league’s obsession with the Panthers and Coyotes is because the Miami metro area is the 9th largest in the US at 6 million people, and the Phoenix metro area is the 10th largest with 5 million people.

Buffalo is 49th with 1.1 million people (Southern Ontario bumps that up a bit. Not sure by how much). We have a lot less potential to grow as a market.

It’s the same reason the NFL keeps going back to Los Angeles over the past 50 years despite repeated failures and evidence that the people there DGAF.

 

[Chainshot]

The league’s obsession with the Panthers and Coyotes is because the Miami metro area is the 9th largest in the US at 6 million people, and the Phoenix metro area is the 10th largest with 5 million people.

Buffalo is 49th with 1.1 million people (Southern Ontario bumps that up a bit. Not sure by how much). We have a lot less potential to grow as a market.

It’s the same reason the NFL keeps going back to Los Angeles over the past 50 years despite repeated failures and evidence that the people there DGAF.

Niagara Region of So. Ontario has about 450,000 people. 1.1 million would be the combo of Erie and Niagara counties. If there was no border to cross, you could also get into Hamilton (about 560K), Halton (another 550K), and even toss in Brant/Brantford and Haldimand is another 200K which more than doubles the US population figures for possible attendees. The issue of a nearly complete lack of broadcast ability to the Canadian side of the river though has certainly not helped.