Here’s your chance Dubas (Montgomery available)

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I just can’t imagine Jordan, Brady, or whoever you want to plug in there just sitting on their hands and being comfortable with losing.

It’s so odd to me that Sid would choose comfort over competing. Geno too. It’s like the culture ruined their competitiveness. I hope that’s wrong.

We’ve always been a complacent country club quite frankly….

It’s ridiculous

 

[The Old Master]

It’s so odd to me that Sid would choose comfort over competing. Geno too. It’s like the culture ruined their competitiveness. I hope that’s wrong.

yeah! to get to where they are at, you need to be overly completive so i kind of go in the other direction.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sullivan (allegedly) went over Hextall's head, not Dubas'.

Regardless, even if he doesn't have the authority to fire Sullivan directly, he can lobby FSG to do it.

It wasn't allegedly, it quite literally happened.



They never refuted this.

On New Year’s Eve in Boston, unseasonably mild weather greeted the Penguins, who, despite their trials, showed up in FSG’s stomping grounds with a top-10 record, healthy and ready for a showdown with the league-leading Bruins at Fenway Park for the NHL’s showcase outdoor game. Sullivan, who to Hextall’s surprise had worked out a contract extension directly with FSG in late August, was in his element in Boston.

Chaos, loathing and the Big Three: How the Penguins unraveled

Ron Hextall and Brian Burke's Penguins were defined by chaotic trades, internal conflict and the near-disbanding of three franchise icons.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We’ve always been a complacent country club quite frankly….

It’s ridiculous

This is a franchise that literally dicked around with Scotty Bowman.

Scotty Bowman’s two-season stint as the Pittsburgh Penguins’ coach ended Friday when the NHL’s winningest coach left an offer on the bargaining table and said he would talk to other teams.

The Penguins rescinded their offer and said the only way Bowman would return is as the team’s player development director or as a consultant.


Bowman reportedly wanted a raise in his $350,000 salary and more of a say in running the team. General Manager Craig Patrick would not disclose the Penguins’ offer.

Bowman Decides Not to Return as Penguin Coach

Scotty Bowman's two-season stint as the Pittsburgh Penguins' coach ended Friday when the NHL's winningest coach left an offer on the bargaining table and said he would talk to other teams.

www.latimes.com

Good thing they didn't give Bowman what he wanted, God forbid he turn the Pens into the dynasty he turned the Wings into lol. f***ing idiots. 4 finals, 3 cups. Created a winning culture that Babs slowly destroyed but yeah, who needs any of that!

Then had multiple coaches fired because Mario didn't like how they made them play a more structured game.

Also Zubov for Hatcher. That one still pisses me off.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

This is a franchise that literally dicked around with Scotty Bowman.

Bowman Decides Not to Return as Penguin Coach

Scotty Bowman's two-season stint as the Pittsburgh Penguins' coach ended Friday when the NHL's winningest coach left an offer on the bargaining table and said he would talk to other teams.

www.latimes.com

Good thing they didn't give Bowman what he wanted, God forbid he turn the Pens into the dynasty he turned the Wings into lol. f***ing idiots. 4 finals, 3 cups. Created a winning culture that Babs slowly destroyed but yeah, who needs any of that!

Then had multiple coaches fired because Mario didn't like how they made them play a more structured game.

Also Zubov for Hatcher. That one still pisses me off.

We’ve won 5 Cups and had 4 of the best centers ever in that time frame. I know it’s cool for everyone in here to bitch and moan and spread negativity, but this one is really reaching.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I still think Jeff Halpern would be a great fit. Former player who was defensively sound while actually having some decent offensive seasons. Played on the international stage.

Coached at the AHL level before joining Tampa's staff. He's been a big part of their success. Won multiple cups. Runs Tampa's power play.

Only drawback is he's never been a head coach at any level and it's always different going from assistant to head coach. But I think his experience and past success would give him immediate credibility in the locker room and he'd have some good ideas.

 

[Pancakes]

I just can’t imagine Jordan, Brady, or whoever you want to plug in there just sitting on their hands and being comfortable with losing.

It’s so odd to me that Sid would choose comfort over competing. Geno too. It’s like the culture ruined their competitiveness. I hope that’s wrong.

I don't think Sid is comfortable with losing at all. Did you see him in the post game after last night? He was being polite but I could tell from his body language that he was furious.

I wouldn't be surprised if they want Sullivan to stay and think that he can guide them out of this. If I put myself in Sid's shoes I imagine that I'd be intensely loyal to any coach that I won two championships with.

Having said that, it's not on Sid to make this decision. It's Dubas' f-ing job to make hard choices even if his best players aren't happy with them. What's Sid gonna do if Sullivan is fired, demand a trade? I doubt that. It's not his way. He'll be mad, but he'll get over it, especially if a powerful coach like Montgomery is brought in and sells Sid on the new plan.

I don't blame Sid or the core for Sullivan still being here. I put the blame squarely at the feet of Dubas and FSG because it's well within their power to make changes and Sid and Geno will ultimately accept whatever they do. They aren't the types to demand a trade because their favorite coach is fired. That's not them.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I have to question whether NHL HC experience is even a good thing tbh. Being in the NHL coaching frat turns coaches' brains into f***ing mush, man.

I'm not gonna pretend to know the best hire long-term, but they need to be very mindful of the long-term when looking. This team's damn near bottomed out and it's not gonna be getting better with time. They can't get some dork like Torts or Sullivan or Gallant or something, with a shit record of working with youth and all that.

Scouting and development need to be the primary focus moving forward, for probably the next 5+ years tbh.

 

[BigEezyE22]

You can't spell Dumbass without Dubas.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think Sid is comfortable with losing at all. Did you see him in the post game after last night? He was being polite but I could tell from his body language that he was furious.

I wouldn't be surprised if they want Sullivan to stay and think that he can guide them out of this. If I put myself in Sid's shoes I imagine that I'd be intensely loyal to any coach that I won two championships with.

Having said that, it's not on Sid to make this decision. It's Dubas' f-ing job to make hard choices even if his best players aren't happy with them. What's Sid gonna do if Sullivan is fired, demand a trade? I doubt that. It's not his way. He'll be mad, but he'll get over it, especially if a powerful coach like Montgomery is brought in and sells Sid on the new plan.

I don't blame Sid or the core for Sullivan still being here. I put the blame squarely at the feet of Dubas and FSG because it's well within their power to make changes and Sid and Geno will ultimately accept whatever they do. They aren't the types to demand a trade because their favorite coach is fired. That's not them.

Well, Sid can't be too uncomfortable with losing because this shit's been getting steadily worse since 2018. I don't think he's happy with it, but he's comfortable enough with it that he seems resigned to the fact.

Nobody's saying Sid has to kick the door to FSG's office in and launch into a profanity laced tirade about Sullivan needing to be fired. All he has to do is mention that he thinks the coaching or system is stale and needs a new direction or something to that effect and Sully would've been gone years ago. Simple as that.

I know everybody bristles up when this kinda shit gets talked about but that's reality. Sid's the franchise. They're letting this go on because the appearance is that Sid's fine with, comfortable, okay with-- however you wanna frame it--what's been going on. And all outward appearances say that he is. /shrug

I dunno why people piss their pants when the obvious is mentioned. Sid's as big a reason that Sullivan's still here as any other factor. Yes, it's Dubas' job to fire the loser coach. Yes, it's true that FSG are so idiotic that they adore the guy and think he's genuinely a top-3 coach in the sport. But none of that shit matters the moment Sid says peep, and that's the reality. He shouldn't -have- to, we agree, and he likely won't because of the type of person he is. But this franchise, top to bottom, is so damn terrified of making Sid upset that they'd rather sit by and watch this whole thing rot for a decade than to make the decision to fire Sullivan on their own.

 

[3074326]

Oh don’t worry guys we will be hiring Torts when the Flyers fire him

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Oh don’t worry guys we will be hiring Torts when the Flyers fire him

f***.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We’ve won 5 Cups and had 4 of the best centers ever in that time frame. I know it’s cool for everyone in here to bitch and moan and spread negativity, but this one is really reaching.

You definitely didn't understand what I was replying to and decided to bitch anyway. Lol

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

You definitely didn't understand what I was replying to and decided to bitch anyway. Lol

You’re bitching about the coaching changes that the Pens went through after Bowman as if Detroit has somehow been more successful than the Penguins over the past 30 years.

 

[Kiith Nabaal]

I haven't watched In the Room in quite some time, but they should for an episode, put hidden cameras in Dubas' office when he and Sullivan have their 1:1s a few times.

 

[Pancakes]

Well, Sid can't be too uncomfortable with losing because this shit's been getting steadily worse since 2018. I don't think he's happy with it, but he's comfortable enough with it that he seems resigned to the fact.

Nobody's saying Sid has to kick the door to FSG's office in and launch into a profanity laced tirade about Sullivan needing to be fired. All he has to do is mention that he thinks the coaching or system is stale and needs a new direction or something to that effect and Sully would've been gone years ago. Simple as that.

I know everybody bristles up when this kinda shit gets talked about but that's reality. Sid's the franchise. They're letting this go on because the appearance is that Sid's fine with, comfortable, okay with-- however you wanna frame it--what's been going on. And all outward appearances say that he is. /shrug

I dunno why people piss their pants when the obvious is mentioned. Sid's as big a reason that Sullivan's still here as any other factor. Yes, it's Dubas' job to fire the loser coach. Yes, it's true that FSG are so idiotic that they adore the guy and think he's genuinely a top-3 coach in the sport. But none of that shit matters the moment Sid says peep, and that's the reality. He shouldn't -have- to, we agree, and he likely won't because of the type of person he is. But this franchise, top to bottom, is so damn terrified of making Sid upset that they'd rather sit by and watch this whole thing rot for a decade than to make the decision to fire Sullivan on their own.

Yes and no. Sid's not the type of personality to ever ask for his coach to get fired, let alone a coach who he won two cups with. The most you'll get out of him is him passive-aggressively playing badly on the ice so that management gets the hint. He'll never come right out and ask for it. You could argue that Sid is doing that this year with how bad he's been defensively lol.

He will never come out and say the bolded to anyone in management, even if they ask him. Even with Mike Johnson and Edzo he never did that. But JR was smart enough to read between the lines and see that Sid's on-ice play under MJ warranted a change.

If Sully gets fired Sid would live with it. He'd accept it. He pouted when Jake got traded but he got over it. He values his one player/one team legacy so short of FSG running over his dog or something he's not going anywhere.

Which makes FSG/Dubas being unwilling to fire Sully all the more frustrating because Sid would not mutiny over it and they know that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yes and no. Sid's not the type of personality to ever ask for his coach to get fired, let alone a coach who he won two cups with. The most you'll get out of him is him passive-aggressively playing badly on the ice so that management gets the hint. He'll never come right out and ask for it. You could argue that Sid is doing that this year with how bad he's been defensively lol.

He will never come out and say the bolded to anyone in management, even if they ask him. Even with Mike Johnson and Edzo he never did that. But JR was smart enough to read between the lines and see that Sid's on-ice play under MJ warranted a change.

If Sully gets fired Sid would live with it. He'd accept it. He pouted when Jake got traded but he got over it. He values his one player/one team legacy so short of FSG running over his dog or something he's not going anywhere.

Which makes FSG/Dubas being unwilling to fire Sully all the more frustrating because Sid would not mutiny over it and they know that.

Agree to disagree I guess. The most important leadership quality Sid could exhibit nowadays is realizing and acting on the fact that this organization needs to break off their marriage to this f***ing loser coach they're so enamored with.

We do agree, though, that he won't ever do that. It's not his style, and honestly, I really don't think he wants Sullivan gone. In the end, again, I think that's why Sullivan's really still here. /shrug

And yeah, Sullivan's been a f***ing wreck since the B2Bs, but he's a coach. He'll eventually quit or be fired. We're all, as fans, stuck with FSG for the foreseeable future and that f***ing suuuuuuuucks.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I haven't watched In the Room in quite some time, but they should for an episode, put hidden cameras in Dubas' office when he and Sullivan have their 1:1s a few times.

NSFW

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Frankly there just aren’t a lot of good coaching candidates.

I think playing careers are so lucrative that guys don’t really need to get involved in coaching unless they’re just that type of person. And with advances in medicine and training careers are a lot longer so you have to get involved in coaching much later. And with the constant recycling of coaches and the fact that there’s not really a shelf life on them like there is a player, there’s not much room to move up. Kind of a logjam.

So you’ve got a lot of retreads that come with baggage and other shortcomings. But who are even the truly “young and up-and-coming” coaches out there? Warsofsky was one but even he was a little lacking in experience at lower levels isn’t doing great in SJ anyway. Even Gronborg and Fedorov over in Europe are pushing 60. Maybe our MacDonald but you’d wanna see a few years of AHL success before promoting him.

Since coaches tend to suck in their first go around and get better the second go around (Hynes, Sullivan, Cassidy, DeBoer) maybe we could give D.J. Smith a shot.

I forgot about Carle in Denver.. sounds promising but he’s literally never been inside a pro locker room. Just too green for me.

There are a lot of good coaching candidates. Why was Sullivan such a good one or Bylsma?

In that same vein why is Nelson lesser than them in that same way? Far more established in the ahl than either of those two tits before they got their chance. Why is Montgomery not a great candidate?

For me David Carle will be a great coach option some day and I wish the Pens would get him some how when Sullivan is fired. Kirk MacDonald and his Assistant are very well established in the echl and other ranks for development and other management.

There's candidates out there.

What the f*** has Sullivan done since 2018 that makes him better than any of them?

Agree to disagree I guess. The most important leadership quality Sid could exhibit nowadays is realizing and acting on the fact that this organization needs to break off their marriage to this f***ing loser coach they're so enamored with.

We do agree, though, that he won't ever do that. It's not his style, and honestly, I really don't think he wants Sullivan gone. In the end, again, I think that's why Sullivan's really still here. /shrug

And yeah, Sullivan's been a f***ing wreck since the B2Bs, but he's a coach. He'll eventually quit or be fired. We're all, as fans, stuck with FSG for the foreseeable future and that f***ing suuuuuuuucks.

Yeah players give up and that's when a GM fires a coach. Why did JR see it when Sid, Geno, and Phil all gave up under MJ? Why does Dubas refuse to see it now that virtually the entire team has given up trying to make sense of playing this system. Sid is playing the worst hockey of his career. There is very little good on this roster.

No team has this many players playing this poorly and has progressively gotten worse over 3 seasons with these issues slowly bubbling since 2018-19.

I hate when blokes are like Sid isn't the one to say shit. Sure. He wouldn't verbalize it.

But his play is f***ing yelling it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I haven't watched In the Room in quite some time, but they should for an episode, put hidden cameras in Dubas' office when he and Sullivan have their 1:1s a few times.

Dubas - "Mike let me stop you right there, what you just said was just absolutely incredible sentence formation, I don't even know how to follow that up with a proper response."

Mike -"We need more heart on this team like Noel Acciari and Matt Nieto. The less passengers on this roster we have the better we are, like Jesse Puljujarvi."



Also I thought they stopped doing in the room last year?

 

[Extra Texture]

I just can’t imagine Jordan, Brady, or whoever you want to plug in there just sitting on their hands and being comfortable with losing.

It’s so odd to me that Sid would choose comfort over competing. Geno too. It’s like the culture ruined their competitiveness. I hope that’s wrong.

Exactly, well said. It’s hard to rationalize that the passion to win that has driven these guys their whole lives just hits a wall bc their coach treats them with kid gloves.

I can hear the devils advocates saying “well they’re old now, maybe they’ve decided they just don’t have it anymore”. But the counterpoint to that is that losing (not just that, but consistent, preventable, embarrassing losing) Is a new feeling to guys who have been competing to be the best for 30+ years now.

 

[Zbynek]

Exactly, well said. It’s hard to rationalize that the passion to win that has driven these guys their whole lives just hits a wall bc their coach treats them with kid gloves.

I can hear the devils advocates saying “well they’re old now, maybe they’ve decided they just don’t have it anymore”. But the counterpoint to that is that losing (not just that, but consistent, preventable, embarrassing losing) Is a new feeling to guys who have been competing to be the best for 30+ years now.

There's a huge disconnect between an actual athlete and your average HFboards poster. People on HFBoards talk about rebuilding/tanking so casually and just assume 87/71/58 are on board for that too. "For the betterment of the team"

Let's throw 65 into that (twofold) since he hasn't even won yet.

Whether they are 38 years old or 18, they are elite athletes, still showing up to practice every day, doing everything they can while they're still here. This is their life; their existence and their purpose. They want to win more than anything.

This org's decisions aren't aligned with Sid/Geno's mindset either - they are coming from up above in Beantown. Dubas - even if he was smart enough to bite the bullet and replace Sully - likely does not have the authority to do so.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'll be honest. This "Dubas doesn't have authority to fire Sullivan" reeks of cope. The truth is that he probably doesn't see Sullivan as a big enough issue to fire, and that's the worse of the two. So people fall back on this "Well he can't be -that- f***ing stupid, so he must not have full control of the situation!" thing.

I hope Sullivan's fired after the season, because they'll just be left with no way to defend keeping him anymore after three playoff losses in a row and (hopefully) bottoming out to a top-5 pick. But we'll see what happens. If he sticks around, I really don't think it's because FSG is refusing to let Dubas fire him. It'll be because Dubas is indeed dumb enough to think Sullivan is part of the solution, not the problem.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah players give up and that's when a GM fires a coach. Why did JR see it when Sid, Geno, and Phil all gave up under MJ? Why does Dubas refuse to see it now that virtually the entire team has given up trying to make sense of playing this system. Sid is playing the worst hockey of his career. There is very little good on this roster.

No team has this many players playing this poorly and has progressively gotten worse over 3 seasons with these issues slowly bubbling since 2018-19.

I hate when blokes are like Sid isn't the one to say shit. Sure. He wouldn't verbalize it.

But his play is f***ing yelling it.

This is pretty much 100% spot on about Sid.

He's never been a vocal guy about his displeasure. He won't come out and tell anyone to fire Sullivan. But you can tell when he's done with a coach with how he plays. His effort level is ALWAYS the tell.

Right or wrong, Sid is like that passive aggressive kid who doesn't yell or scream or cry when he's upset, he just quietly sulks and waits for his parents to ask what's wrong. And if they're not noticing, he'll add a sigh or a grumble at the dinner table to catch their attention. But he'll never verbally say "Mom and Dad it's not fair that I can't buy that new video game".

 

[BusinessGoose]

Whether they are 38 years old or 18, they are elite athletes, still showing up to practice every day, doing everything they can while they're still here. This is their life; their existence and their purpose. They want to win more than anything.

You really think so? I mean, i don't doubt 100% of pro athletes are competitive personalities.

But i think there's a larger amount that just want to jump through enough hoops to stay employed long enough to have money when their short career ends. I think the I gotta win at this mindset dies out after juniors/college for most who are still good enough to get contracts in the pros.

I'm not at all convinced 100% of pros actually base their existence around winning their sport.

When you see Rust dogging his ass year after year.... Sid gliding for twenty games every year... f***in Murray not giving a shit about his gloveside....